Oh hi! I'm the Mardu Pyromancer Player you played at round 4 or 5
Well deserved 1st place! Also: spicy 61 cards
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ktkenshinx posted a message on What does Midrange need to thrive?Spiegel posted to the State thread about cantrips and velocity. I disagreed with some of his statements and implications, but agree with a general point he makes about midrange being bad aggro and bad control with misaligned answers. I also think cantrips are a powerful deckbuilding tool that midrange would benefit from.Posted in: Modern
If I wanted to start solving the midrange issue, or specifically the BGx or Bx Midrange issue, I would look towards cantrips. They revitalized an otherwise dead Grixis midrange style in GDS and are singlehandedly enabling Phoenix decks. They also catapulted Mardu and Gerry T to a big PT finish (i.e. Looting in a BRW deck). Velocity is also the secret weapon in Tron and KCI decks which helps them tick so smoothly. Applying these theories to midrange isn't particularly revolutionary, as we see many Shadow midrange strategies trying to maximize card velxoity already. but I think we can push it further into Jund and even Abzan/BG Rock.
For Jund, already a red deck, the solution is easier: play Faithless Looting and cards that can synergize with Looting. This digs through more Jund cards and lets you filter away inappropriate answers while looking for aligned ones. Or lets you dig through answers when you need to find threats. Jund purists will likely balk at this idea and say it fundamentally misinterpreted the deck's purpose, to which I would counter that the decks might need updating given its terrible 2018 results. For Abzan/Rock, as well as Jund, you have Street Wraith, Bauble, Traverse, and Manamorphose. Maybe even Discovery or Night's Whisper, although the difference between CMC 1 and CMC 2 is pretty huge. I'd look into all of those as a way to dig through decks and take the decks to the next level. -
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Ludafish posted a message on Knightfall/Bant CompanyI would personally board like this:Posted in: Midrange
-2 Birds
-2 Pridemage
-2 Clique
-2 Queller
+2 Finks
+3 Reflector Mage
+2 Blessed Alliance
+1 Gideon
You'd still be at 25 Company hits post board. I've had success bringing in Eidolon of Rhetoric on the play as well, between Snaps and the deck being densely packed with cantrips it can seriously slow them down. -
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Lantern posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]@scry: yeah, i agree its backbreaking. If your playing to play giest, tr list ia good, but zoo treata its critters equally more or less. Bant, however, doesnt. Ifiddled with giest bant, and the dexk is suprisingly good... Just not against GbxPosted in: Aggro & Tempo
@forest: yeah. Its stuff you need to learn, the aggro mindset. I asked because the report sohnded loke me when i first got ito etwrnal formats. Theres so much random stuff you need to know by gut, like when to cast creatures. In all my standard i like ever uses main phase two. Then you get blown out by a cryptic command... Lol.
Best way to learn play is to watch videos and play. You pick up fumb tricks that way, like tiliting or baiting even, which helps. Watxhing all of modern helps too. Playing does more. I understand how most modern decks work, not because i played against it enough but ecause i played it to learn how it ticks.
@ana: i do that too. When a store is on to me i switch tech. Like mana tithe one week, scapeshif the next, mid range than domain. Its a good strat, and broadens your understanding. I do sometimes run
Midrange, but not wnough recently to give like... Extremely apt advice. Ill say that my midrange wasnt zoo. I gave up on nacatl and stuff, and opted to have 6 mana dorks, an topped off at the new sarcon (dragon mage). He was awesome. I also played resto angels and huntmasters. I focused in mid game, and hay makers (basicly oh you killed my goyf? Heres a knight. Oh that died? Huntmaster.). Sideboard was anti combo. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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long time Modern player returning to Goblins after 6 years playing a couple other decks.
Here's my first draft:
16 mountains
3 sunbaked canyon
1 mutavault
Gobos
4 skirk prospector
4 fanatical firebrand
4 foundry street denizen
3 reckless bushwhacker
4 goblin bushwhacker
4 mogg war marshal
4 goblin instigator
2 dragon fodder
4 lightning bolt
4 goblin grenade
3 stoke the flames
As you expect a heavy branch in Burn and token.
I try to abuse Skirk prospector by emptying my hand quickly and finishing my opponent with a flurry of burn-spells (Stoke, Bolt, Grenade, Firebrand).
A card i guess is a must is pashalik mons?
Thanks for your responses!
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in preparation for GP Liverpool i placed 1st in a 116 player tournament.
Trader Liga Dülmen
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just returned to BW Eldrazi and Taxes after playing other decks for quite some time.
My results has been pretty fine so far. I've built my sideboard to beat the most ubiquitous Matchups - Affinity and Jund.
3 caves of koilos
2 godless shrine
3 plains
1 swamp
4 eldrazi temple
4 ghost quarter
1 mutavault
2 shambling vents
4 aether vial
4 tidehollows sculler
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 leonin arbiter
1 fatal push
4 flickerwisp
3 wasteland strangler
4 eldrazi displacer
4 thought-knot seer
1 thalia, heretic cathar
3 lingering souls
3 relic of progenitus
3 stony silence
1 kambal, consul of allocation
1 blessed alliance
1 zealous persecution
1 settle the wreckage
1 gideon, ally of zendikar
1 eidolon of rhetoric
You'll recognize that i covered the most awkward matchups with Souls, Relic, Stony + additional removal.
Just the Thalia, Heretic Cathar underperformed - has someone a suggestion here?
Orzhov pontiff or mirran crusader maybe?
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i got some ideas that really catches me and i'm firmly believing, that these changes to the deck will bost it's power level.
First, let me introduce myself. I'm a Modern-Player for 4 1/2 years now. I've started with Modern goblins, followed the agressive path and came to Gruul Zoo, Naya 1-Drop Zoo to Burn. Then i've switched to Living End Combo and finally BW Eldrazi Processors. For now i'm grinding Bant Knightfall.
I've attended a lot of PPTQ's, PTQ's, local store tournaments, FNM's and recently won a 90 player modern tournament. I'm biased toward interactive Aggro / Tempo / Midrange strategies with heavy hitters. Currently Spell Queller, Collected Company and Knight of the Reliquary are my go-to threats and Bant is super-exciting, fun to play Wedge. RG SuperVengevine is another pet-deck of mine, which is super explosive and not-so-hard to pilote.
Here are my initial thoughts to the deck:
Before attending modern i've played Simic Blitz in RtR Standard with Cloudfin Raptor (there you got it). With my background in mind, i believe that the current iteration loads up on interaction wayyyyy too much.
A strong core consists of 28-30 Creatures (think of Merfolk, another Tempo-Shell) and between 8 to 12 interactive Spells (bear in mind: this is modern, not legacy!) To become a truly great deck Temur Zoo needs some more Creatures - and i got one for you that's fitting the bill
At first glance, it's not super-exciting. A 2/2 for GG that gets GG. Ok, the basic idea is to flood the board and present a reliable Turn 3 Kill. this is not so uncommon. I'll give you some scenarios where a T3 kill will be possible:
Scenario A:
Turn 1 - Raptor. Turn 2, fetch, Herbalists, 2x Narnam Renegade = 9 Power on board, swing for 2 = 18 life.
Turn 3 - Atarka's Command = Bolt (15 life) and pump, swing for 13 = 2 life.
Assuming your opponent has shocked once, he is dead.
Scenario B:
Turn 1 - Raptor. Turn 2, fetch, Herbalists, Strangleroot Geist, swing for 4 damage = 16 life.
Turn 3 - Atarka's Command, Bolt + pump. Swing for 9 + 3 damage = 4 life.
This isn't dead, but results in a T4 kill.
Scenario C:
Turn 1 - Experiment One. Turn 2 - fetch, Herbalists, E1 + Renegade = 9 power, swing for 3.
Turn 3- Command, Bolt and pump. Swing for 13 (!) damage, 16 damage total. Opponent is at 1 life now (if he didn't fetch).
The key card in all these scenarios is
The plan is to flood the board, evolve your creatures and pump for lethal (almost, back it up with Lightning Bolt).
For a more in-detail-sight, here are my oppinions about the maindeck:
Cut Pongify, Chart and Pierce. I know, they look terrific, but they don't advance your gameplan, neither your boardstate.
Add Atarka's Command - this one gives all the power to the explosive starts.
Added up, there shouldn't be more than 12 Instant / Sorceries that dilute your otherwise good gameplan. The synergy between Pong + Undying Creature X is sweet, but 8 is the perfect sweet spot (4 Lightning Bolt + Rapid Hybridization). When it doesn't come together, it's bad. Also leaving up U all the time to do some cute shenanigans lets you play completely off-curve - that is a weakness opponents tend to abuse.
Another upside of this change is the mana-requirements. Now we got only 8 U-Spells, which doesn't dilute our Landbase / let us pay too much life to get all teh colors we need.
The creature-suite looks good so far. Add Hidden Herbalists results in having 28 Creatures. I believe we got 1-2 Flex-Slots. I firmly believe Cards like Hooting Mandrills, Grim Lavamancer or teh good ol' Ghor-Clan Rampager as singleton gives us some kind of reach. Lavamancer can even ping Young Wolf, Mandrills trample over chump-blockers, Rampager too (and in addition is an ok midgame-hardcast Beater that evolves other creatures).
With these changes, teh manabase is easier and smoother. We have 8 U Spells, 8 R Spells and around 32 G Spells.
Start with 19 lands (no Dryad Arbor though) and fix slightly. The 3rd landdrop will be necessary sometimes, so maybe 20 is even better.
If you add 2 Rampager 20 Lands will be correct to be able to hardcast em.
Bonus Points
Now we have fixed the manabase and streamlined the deck, there's an opening that was a flaw beforehand: This deck could reliably board in Blood Moon. In grindy games you want to cut blue cards Cloudfin Raptor is super-bad against sth. like Abzan Midrange). As i'd tend to do so, Moon becomes a possible sideboard-plan.
Even Grixis (Control, Shadow, Delver) cannot overcome a once resolved Blood Moon. Because the Blue cards line up poorly against grind-stuff, they'll be boarded out. I'd like to play 2 Basic Forest to support this plan. If worse comes to worse, Lightning Bolt Geist to get a Revolt-trigger for Hidden Herbalists providing GG.
Midrange is propably the worst matchup for this deck (they got Discard, plenty of removal, Liliana, Lingering Souls) etc.). The plan is to further overload there removal. Kitchen Finks is the best card against removal. Also cards like Domri Rade or Nissa, steward of elements are ok'ish here.
Tormod's Crypt adds up to the synergy with Narnam Renegade and Herbalists for providing a Revolt-Trigger. I've played it very successful in Rg SuperVengevine against Storm-Combo. The other sideboard-cards could be Grudge, some counters (Pierce, Stubborn, Unified will, whatever) against Combo and maybe control.
the deck
This is my initial idea:
4 Misty RAinforest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
2 Botanical Sanctum
2 Stomping Ground
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Forest
1 Breeding Pool
4 Experiment One
4 Cloudfin Raptor
4 Young Wolf
4 Hidden Herbalists
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Narnam Renegade
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Rapid Hybridization
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
Rampager and Lavamancer are Flex-Slots, there could also be other stuff here (Flinthoof Boar, Mandrills, Fanatic of Xenagos etc.)
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Like Izzetmage explained, after a Boardwipe or an initial attack this deck can come back.
Hole One's not. They are simply one more "All-in" strategy we had so many of in the past couple of years.
The huge difference is that @Izzetmage List rewards good plays, whereas slamming Goblin Guide into Cathartic Reunion ist just awkward - a one-trick pony. Either you got it or you don't.
All the Aggro decks that survived (aka stayed Tier 1) had a plan B.
This deck has too. Hollow Vine not.
Compare both sideboards (which are the epitome of switching gears):
We have great Midrange-Cards (Ooze, Finks), some sort of removal and a great lock piece Blood Moon.
Hollow Vine is not intended to play the midrange game. Once the threats are gone, there plan is gone.
They trade consistency for explosiveness.
It could be done, but the most interesting thing about this deck is, that is able to do a grind-game.
It rewards the right plays, format knowledge and good sideboarding.
Hollow Vine not. Just dump everything and hope for the best.
The sideboard is designed the same way.
How would this deck be able to play the mid-game?
It has just so many dead stuff, it couldn't be boarded out entirely.
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Is there a reason that nobody runs Scryb Ranger?
It has obvious synergies with the deck, so therefore i'll test this in the future.
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My decklist is attached to this reply.
Round 1: Eldrazi Tron
Guess what happened. walking ballista + basilisk collar sealed the deal pretty quickly.
Ugin and Ulamog crushed me too, but my openers has been totally crap - even after mulliganing to 5.
0-1
Round 2: 4C/5C Chord
Game 1 was smashed by Eldritch Evolution into Magus of the Moon!
I was screwed completely - easy win for my opponent.
Game 2 and 3 my opponent didn't find the right lands and therefore was stuck with many cards in hand.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor closed one Game, the other was decided by Sea GAte Wreckage.
1-1
Round 3: Abzan Liege
We both kept a slow hand, remaining on 2 Lands for 4 turns or so.
He put a Voice of Resurgence which hit me for 6. I handled an Ooze, drawing an Eldrazi Temple
for TKS and then just put the game away.
GAme 2 we traded Lingering Souls, but Sorin was the game-breaker on my side.
I handled his threats and put the game away.
2-1
Round 4: UB Tron
Crazy Tron variant. GAme 1 i got blown away by Wurmcoil Engine and BAtterskull with literally 0 business.
Game 2 and 3 were taken away with Stony Silence. I had slow clocks, but he can't overcome the lock and therfore loses.
3-1
Round 5: Living End
Game 1 i got Relic of Progenitus, which took the game by itself. A couple of discards later the game was mine.
Game 2 i chained 4 Discard-Spells, but he topdecked Violent Outburst ftw.
Game 3 he mulled to 3 and i had Relic. With 2 Matter Reshaper my opponent had no cards in his grave but cascaded into Living End.
I found another Reshaper and Strangler ftw.
4-1
Round 6: Naya Breach
Game 1 got me there with a couple of Discard Spells and pressure on board.
My opponent was bricking, but i found all necessary disruption at the right time.
Game 2 i had to handel a Tunr 2 Nahiri, the Harbinger, which cost me the game.
Game 3 i curved Reshaper, drew a 2nd Eldrazi Temple into Turn 3 Reality Smasher.
My opponent chumped with a Tribe-Elder, going down to 15. One more swing brought him down to 7.
On his turn he played Primeval Titan, killing Smasher. I Anguished Unmaking Titan.
My turn, topdeck Smasher (!!!!!) ftw.
5-1
Round 7: Junk Midrange
Game 1 i've lost to playing a couple of Thoughtseize and not drawing any Removal.
He had 2x Push, 2x Grim Flayer, Maelstrom Pulse and Rhino.
A Siege Rhino selaed the deal within 2 turns.
Game 2 Sorin put my opponent under serious pressure. Lingering Souls gave him some gas, but he couldn't break the stall
and after a bunch of turns fighting for Sorin i've put away the Game with him.
Game 3 Sorin took the Game again. My opponent had Liliana first, which got handled by Spirit Tokens. I've followed up with sorin and
some Drazi's. My enemy had Shambling Vent and Stirring wildwood which i had no removal for.
After TKS got handled by him i followed up with a 2nd one, stripping the rightly drawn Path to Exile. An Elspeth, Sun's Champion wiped my board. I got rid of her with Unmaking and ticking Sorin further which selead the deal in a super-exciting Final Game.
6-1
So 6-1 at all and fealing super-great after struggling a bit in the last 4 couple of weeks with the deck.
MVP's / Gamebreakers had been Sorin + Anguished Unmaking.
The least impressive Cards has been Cavern of Souls and Ghost Quarter.
A single more Mutavault is absolutely necessary to compete with the top of the Meta.
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Tidehollow Sculler and Wasteland Strangler
These are the reasons to dig into Black. Sadly, Sculler is a bad card. I've played him a couple of months in BW Tokens, tried him in BW Eldrazi Processor and it shares the same problems in E&T: It costsBW which isn't available on turn 2 in many games.
Even worse, with Kolaghan's Command in the format, it's a basic 1-for-2 worsen our Matchup against Jund and Grixis.
A lot of Streams i saw he stucked in hand for a couple of turns. Without Vial it's a sorcery Thoughtseize, that can be killed.
That's quite bad. Even worse, it's a necessary evil to turn on Wasteland Strangler.
Strangler shines in a Game with Creatures and Cards in the Grave to be exiled. Sadly, the momentary Meta is a wild bunch of Ramp, Combo, Tempo and Aggro.
This leaves Wasteland Strangler as a high-variance Card. Soemtimes it's really great, sometimes a bad 3/2.
This is what i am agree with many players here. Cutting Black looks like a promising idea.
Thraben Inspector and Smuggler's Copter
I'm sorry for repeating myself, but Inspector is a promising candidate along Copter. I assume it let us cheat on a single Land because we are able to cantrip.
22 Lands is what i am aiming for.
Smuggler's Copter is kinda weird card. It's again a 1-for-2 against Kolaghan's Command, but paired with more impact.
I believe i'll dodge it for now, until i'm feeling the Meta has settled and Kolaghan's is played to a lesser extent.
Blade Splicer
Again, Kolaghan's Command, but in this case it's a simple 1-for-1 trade. It's agressiveness looks pretty nice, so it will take some spots in my list.
I'll keep you updated until my decklist is settled.
1
don't complain 'bout too much GY-Hate.
Sure, everyone wants to pack like 4 Rest-i-P, 3 Relic's and like 10 Leyline's at minimum.
But let's be real here:
Every serious Contender has to pick broad answers for there Sideboard.
There are too many Decks out there, which doesn't get hit by a Relic.
So while everybody and his mom tries to bust Dredge out of the Format, they can't stick
to that plan in the long run. It's like this Blood Moon thing...
Some people try to out-blast Decks with there Moon-thing.
Then they doesn't apply pressure and die to not doing anything important.
Same rule applies to GY-Hate. After RiP sticks, there have to be a go-to Plan.
Beating down, Burning, Comboing. Many players with Grave-Hate just loose Matches because
they believe a single Hate-Piece chokes us out and therefore keep bad Openers.
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i run Dredge for myself, tapping into BUG-Colors as i love Thought Scouring myself.
Sadly my 1-mana-Enablers are all worse than Faithless Looting.
I run 4 Dream Twist and 4 Thought Scour nowadays, but that feels wrong in many cases.
The first digs just 3 Cards, teh latter 2, which isn't enough sadly.
What's your recommendation here?
4 Tome Scour, 4 Drowned Rusalka?
I'd really be goin' mad if i must cut Scour - it's just a bunch of fun to play.