I ended up losing to 5C Death's Shadow (both games have been lost due to Temur Battle Rage), a bye, than beating Burn 2-1 and beating Junk Midrange 2-1.
Was Shapers' Sanctuary discussed?
Just looking for a good Sideboard Card vs Grixis Shadow because I really struggled to beat a resolved Kolaghans Command.
For a better understanding of my thought-process, i'll go into more detail here:
Manabase: This Manabase seem to be much better than BW, another upgrade could be to add a 2nd Horizon Canopy.
I couldn't find a good Manland in white (the only Downside in running Mono-White), so i grab Mutavault.
Thraben Inspector - this one looks great on paper. A potential Turn 1-play, can be vialed in with a single counter, nets cards, can be flickered for value.
8 2-Drops seems solid because Inspector Clueso gives a 2-Mana-Draw, gumming up the turn 2 plays to 12 total.
Thalia, Heretic Cathar is a flex spot. Teh deck is not super-well equipped to fight EldraziTron, so i thought it's better to fill that spot with a Card to fight the Eldrazi's. Could be a Crusader or Finks too.
For the sideboard i sat down and created plans that fit to fight the top-dogs in the Meta: Affinity
I know that this is a atrocious matchup, so i've dedicated plenty of slots for it. I'm not a fan of slamming more and more Stony Silence into my side because they take away slots against other fringe-strategy decks.
Explosives and Stony are a non-bo, but if either one resolves they are devastating. Displacer is a bit slow (maybe i'm wrong here since he can flicker everything), maybe taking out TKS is better. The rest of my cards are basically to chump-block (FAmiliar, Mindcensor), remove (Fragmentize, Settle the Wreckage) or shutting down important cards (Needle, Stony).
None of my Cards is particularly good against fishes. Thalia is easily outclassed and doesn't tax anything important, Arbiter is 2/2 (No real offensive or defensive power) and Blade Splicer shares the same issue. This is the Matchup that i got no idea about, what Cards could break it. Needle shuts down Mutavault (Or Vial at worst), fragmentize hits spreading seas, Engineered Explosives on 2 wipes half there board and Settle means GG.
Eldrazi Tron
A matchup that is not super-common, but i face it regularly.
+1 Needle
+1 Fragmentize
+1 Settle the Wreckage
+1 Aven Mindcensor
-2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 ???
I'm hesitant to put in Stony Silence because Vial is important enough for trying to screw them.
Thalia is a bit underwhelming as it's easily outclassed by giant Spaghetti Monsters and doesn't tax a lot of things.
Discard and plenty of removal are annoying to play against. Therefore i believe a single Aether Vial is ok because it's a horrible topdeck, but great in my opener. Crusader and Finks are hard to come by, RiP shuts there graveyard things down (maybe bring a 2nd copy???) and Purge hits allthere threats.
Cutting Vial means that [card]Flickerwisp[card] becomes worse (Sorcery-Speed flickering is way too predictable and less effective). Big Thalia can tempo them out, but at 3 Mana it's way late i think.
Jund
Basically the same as above, an Engineered Explosives can hit them pretty hard. Pithing Needle is a solution for Liliana, which can be a pain.
My assumption is, that the Value-package is way too slow and mana-intensive to be reliable.
Therefore i cut some pieces, add Purge as removal, Familiar for countering important spells and Finks for lifegain.
There is an argument that Displacer and Wisp flicker Kitchen Finks is too good to stray away from. In my experience Burn has plenty of problems to deal with the deck (Thalia gave Burn-players headaches for days) and my maindeck is already great against them.
Thalia is the biggest shot against them. They can go off with her in play if Baral is on the table, so the Value-package / 3 Drop-Slot is kinda slow to prevent that. Rest in Peace shuts off Past in Flames, Purge exiles Baral / Electromancer, Familiar counters Manamorphose or sth. else.
Mindcensor could be brought against Gifts Ungiven, Explosives as an additional removal.
Engineered Explosives is a flex spot too as 2 colors with only 5 duals is hard to come by. Ratchet Bomb is another offender to fight against Merfolk and Jund / Junk (killing Lingering Souls Tokens).
Well I wanted to keep it pretty versatile which is why there are a few 2-3 ofs
I like having removal rather than pump which some peoplw run and using deaths shadow and vexing devil are really good with claim/fame as well as help recur vengevines. But yea thats probably why its not as consistent as Id like.
Edit: but id like to thank you for th advice and I am working on making sticking to plan rather than being all over the place
These Split-Cards are more likely a finisher.
I can see your argument for Clame, but it doesn't trigger Vengevine in any way (even not with Vexing Devil out of the graveyard).
Manamorphose is just here to enable Talara's Battalion, which is quite bad.
Cut 2 morphose and 2 Superion (they are rather clunky).
5 Cards to consider are as follows: Narnam Renegade fits into the Revolt-trigger theme, blocks all creatures to death. Goblin Bushwhacker pumps the team. With costing RR it is declassified, but always worth watching out for. Bone Picker - you really need a Creature to die to make this reliably work. Mogg War Marshal talking about Revolt-trigger, this maybe another candidate. Mogg Fanatic really need some help to get buffed, otherwise outclassed by every single creature out there.
Stick to the basic list.
You are running a couple of 2- and 3-ofs that are not well-funded through playtesting.
Redundancy is teh keyword here. Dismiss cute / spicy things (Claim Fame, Removal, Death's Shadow) and streamline your list.
You are in between everything - part of your list wants to be midrange, part of it wants to be aggro.
Talara's Battalion is fine as long as it replaces Reckless Bushwhacker. Herbalists / Emissary's does provide a good job in putting a bunch of em to the battlefield. Worst thing 'bout Battalion is the fact that you ran Superion along em.
There are so many distracting 2-, 3- and 1-of's, i'm wondering what brought you to that list?
Edit:
I'm pretty familiar with teh deck right now.
Games against Top tier decks are solid right now, not on the winning-spot but "challenge accepted"-thing.
The deck lacks a good lategame engine and loses a lot to grind-games.
I suggest Pia and Kiran Nalaar are perfectly fine along Blood Moon.
When I build decks I try to pack as much synergy as possible, and this deck is not short on it. Adept has 21 cards that trigger it. Goyf grows bigger than usual because Assault and Hollow One provide uncommon card types. Hollow One has 8 cards that bring it down to 1 mana to cast, and Street Wraith lops off that final mana.
Birds are there for speed; they enable 3 mana plays on turn 2, like Assault, or Reunion > 1-mana Hollow One, or Fulminator Mage postboard. They're an easy discard to Looting/Reunion past the first turn.
Just stumbled across this one and this one is a nice one!
Have you tested that one further? I'm willing to take it for some games after GP Madrid in december.
Why do you run 4 Fulminator Mage sideboard?
While i was pretty disappointed when Wasteland Strangler falled out of favor for D'n'T, i instantly dropped the deck.
I was too not happy with there bad draws but knew it could be fixed.
The lack of removal in D'n'T, the lackluster beaters and the disruption-package doesn't fit my playstyle.
So i've created another Deck called Esper Hatebears.
The real new stuff here is Spell Queller which works too fine along Wasteland Strangler (Queller exiles). Judge's FAmiliar disrupts as early as Turn 1, prevent fast combo Decks from going off or even hitting a Push on another Hatebear.
Queller, Wisp, Strangler and Reflector Mage are all great at disrupting in the 3-Drop Slot. Restoration Angel finally bring in the Beatz and has enough flicker-targets.
The numbers maybe wrong, but the initial idea is done.
Honestly, the deck isn't any more all-in than the Burning-Tree/Superion Build. The difference is instead of playing a 2/2 and a very conditional 5/6 as a means of recurring Vengevine, the Hollow One list instead opts for extremely consistent 0 mana 4/4s. In both decks you're having to shoot a bunch of creatures out on key turns to recur Vengevine. If the Hollow One strategy is all-in, than so is the Burning-Tree/Superion build. In this situation you're looking at two different kinds of apples and declaring that one of them is a pear.
The real strenght in Hollow Vine is Hollow One and not so much recurring Vengevines. The plan is to abuse Discard and looting to get Hollow One on the board. This is totally fine but warps the deck this way, that these mechanics have to be abused. Instead Super Vengevine works totally fine w/o Vengevine. Get Hidden Herbalists and Superion on board, follow the next turn with Burning-Tree Emissary into Bushwhacker. The Boardpresence is great and that w/o even using a single card in the grave.
Hollow Vine doesn't have those lines. It's about getting Hollow One running. After that you can't prepare for another super-explosive comeback. Goblin Guide / Swiftspear are way less powerful here.
The huge difference is that @Izzetmage List rewards good plays, whereas slamming Goblin Guide into Cathartic Reunion ist just awkward - a one-trick pony. Either you got it or you don't.
You literally haven't played the deck. I can 100% tell from this post. Every single person I have talked to who has actually played the list has told me that while it does just look like a dumb aggro list, it is one of the most difficult aggressive decks that have ever played. You can't just blindly slam Guide and Turn 1 and Reunion Turn 2.
I'm totally fine with your statement, i wasn't intending to stamp this deck as a dumb-Aggro-thing. I was playing dumb and not-so-dumb Aggro decks before and both versions of this deck are not easy to pilot.
You need to before every play assess what's in your hand and graveyard, what looting effects you have, how many creatures you have access to, etc. There is so many tight plays you need to make with this deck where not planning out turns 1, 2, and 3 properly could lose you the game. So please, explain to me how that isn't rewarding good plays. Also, if the deck was a one-trick pony than it would have the issue of not being able to win if it didn't get the Vengevine/Hollow One draw. Earlier this week I played some 1v1 Modern matches on MTGO. For 5 games in a row I didn't see a single Hollow One or Vengevine. I think in total I lost maybe 1 of those 5 games.
This deck doesn't reward good plays simply because it has not to. You could walk that route, but why should someone? Once you cluttered the board (which is very likely) with a bunch of hard-hitters your opponent can't keep up with, what's the point of tight plays?
All the Aggro decks that survived (aka stayed Tier 1) had a plan B.
This deck has too. Hollow Vine not.
I'm sorry what? Reucrring Vengevine and beating face with them is Plan A. Playing a bunch of small aggressive creature like Swiftspear and Guide that can help close the game is plan B. Become Immense + Battle Rage to end the game instantly is Plan C.
Plan A is very much getting Hollow One on board for 1 or 0 Mana. If Vengevine is part of this - great. You'll do Guide + swiftspear getting back Vine - great. You'll do Temur Battle Rage onto Vengevine - great. But all of this is Plan A, not B. My question to you: How do you come back once you are on your backheels? Do you have a source of card advantage? Do you have a way to setup the next assault? Do you tutor important Cards?
Compare both sideboards (which are the epitome of switching gears):
We have great Midrange-Cards (Ooze, Finks), some sort of removal and a great lock piece Blood Moon.
The best thing about the Hollow One Vengevine list, is that it is so easy for your opponent to screw up their sideboard against you. DO they bring in Rest in Peace? Well then you can just focus on slamming early Hollow One and beating them with 4/4s and aggro creatures. Do they bring in sweepers to deal with your board? Well then you just go in on the Vengevine plan and recur angry cabbages to kill your opponents. As for lock pieces, the Hollow One list runs Blood Moon too, hell it's a free sideboard card since the deck is almost Mono-Red.
That's the argument that both of us disagree the most. After a sweeper your deck won't likely come back. How do you suppose to? You need a bunch of Cards to trigger Vengevine again. This intends that you setup / refill / shape your hand to get to this point. This is were Commune with the Gods and GAther the pack are the shiniest. They dig 5 Cards deep and pick 1 (or 2) Creatures, setting up the next assault.
Your best chance of doing so is looting - card disadvantage. Also both your looting spells dig 2 or 3 Cards deep - another disadvantage. My "Mill-Spells" even fuel my graveyard much more. Hooting Mandrills are alive now, whereas you need to at least cast 1 FAithless Looting, cycle Street Wraith and do some Fetch-things - pretty much effort for such an easy task.
Opponents that mess up there sideboard-plan are an advantage that both decks shares - the sideboard-hate is literally the same.
Hollow Vine is not intended to play the midrange game. Once the threats are gone, there plan is gone.
It's an aggro deck. If you build an aggro deck planning for the midgame, then you aren't building your deck correctly. By your argument, Affinity should be a shift deck because it doesn't plan for the midgame, with the entire deck instead focused on getting your opponent to 0 as quickly as possible. It's obvious you want to play a midrange strategy, well sorry, but this isn't midrange buddy.
The midrange-game is Plan B. I'm a heavy proposer of having a Midrange-Plan in this Format. Even other Aggro-Decks have Midange-Plans, so nothing to be worry about here. Even better i can take the control-role against certain decks after sideboarding, just because it's a good plan.
They trade consistency for explosiveness.
It could be done, but the most interesting thing about this deck is, that is able to do a grind-game.
It rewards the right plays, format knowledge and good sideboarding.
Hollow Vine not. Just dump everything and hope for the best.
The sideboard is designed the same way.
How would this deck be able to play the mid-game?
It has just so many dead stuff, it couldn't be boarded out entirely.
The deck does not trade consistency for explosiveness, hell I would wager that the Hollow One list is more consistent than your Burning-Tree/Superion list. Hell I can prove it is.
No using hypergeometeric math (which for those unaware, is how you find statistics on how to, for example find your chances of drawing specific cards in a deck) right off the bat, because of the extra 4 cards, the Hollow One list is 10% more likely to actually have some form of card draw/filtering in their opening hand (80% VS 90%). Additionally the average CMC for the draw/filter in the BTE/Superion lists is 1.3 mana compared to the Hollow One list's 1 mana (for this number, what makes the difference is Street Wraith cycling for free). Finally, let's look at the average number of cards seen by each deck. For the BTE/Superion List, they average 2.6 cards per draw/filter effect VS the Hollow One's 1.75. This is the only instance where the BTE/Superion list comes out ahead, and it's specifically because Gather the Pack looks at 5 cards. But when you compare how often you are to see the cards, and how much they cost you, the Hollow One list is definitely ahead. Honestly, I would argue that your list is attempting to trade consistency for explosiveness, not mine.
You missed the fact that Cathartic Reunion is a pretty dead topdeck. You too dismissed tha fact that your cards doesn't dig as deep as mine (5 Cards at best) vs (3 Cards at best). 16 vs 16 cards are as equal as it gets - nothing to worry about, not even statistics.
If you want to do a grindy game, go play Abzan, or Jund, or UW Control. I don't want to play a deck that involves reanimating a 4/3 Hasty creature through playing more creatures, without my sole goal being to aggro my opponents to dust. I repeat what I said before, you seem to want to be playing a midrange deck, not an aggro deck. Your barking up the wrong tree here buddy.
No, i don't. Pretty sure about it, believe me.
Every deck in Modern rewards you for correct plays, format knowledge, and good sideboarding. Just saying.
No, many just win randomly off the top of there deck, therefore good knowledge and rewards are not correlating.
If that is how you are playing the deck, then obviously I can udnerstand your disappointment with it. That's not how you play the Hollow One list. It isn't "lololol lets just dump my hand as fast as possible and win" brain-dead. Honestly the fact that you think it is, as I said before, proves you haven't taken a look at the list. Hell I doubt you have even watched anyone play the deck. It feels like you saw that someone did well with it at a big event and you just went, "Well it's a netdeck now, I must be against this for as many dumb reasons as I can come up with." And I am not saying that to try and attack you. I am saying that because your arguments literally don't hold any water what so ever.
Time will tell this one, because if your argument is right we'll see a whole bunch of wins throughout the next couple tournaments (just talking about proofs once more).
Again, this deck doesn't need to play the mid-game. I can't remember where I heard it, but there is a quote that goes, "Those who plan to lose, have already lost." When you plan for your deck to be destroyed on every angle, and you warp your deck around that, you make it worse. Affinity can win through the mid-game not because they planned for it or built their deck around being able to do it, but because the raw power they through into their list makes it so that their opponent is always struggling to regain control. When you play aggro you have to keep hammering your opponent, and the best way to do that is to play aggressive creatures. I repeat what I said before, if you want to play Midrange, play another deck.
You got your (very special idea) about a good magic deck and i have too. There has been good Aggro Decks that were able to do the Midrange-Game (do i sound repetitive?) e.g. Zoo, Dredge, Affinity, Grixis Delver, Merfolk. As you can see Aggro and Midrange doesn't exclude each other.
And I don't understand your last sentence. Are you saying that the Hollow One list has so many dead cards for games 2 & 3? Or are you saying the sideboard cards selected are dead and you wouldn't want to bring them in? Or something else entirely?
The last sentence meant that HollowOne has a lot of crucial parts (Cathartic Reunion comes to mind for enabling Hollow One), which makes it difficult to board - either you board out good cards and left with a deck that barely works because it can't get the engine running (this is were Super Vengevine excels - it can play the control game), or you just barely board to speed up the deck e.g. don't really try to prepare for the upcoming 2nd game.
I stick to my suggestion that Hollow One is not great here.
Like Izzetmage explained, after a Boardwipe or an initial attack this deck can come back.
Hole One's not. They are simply one more "All-in" strategy we had so many of in the past couple of years.
The huge difference is that @Izzetmage List rewards good plays, whereas slamming Goblin Guide into Cathartic Reunion ist just awkward - a one-trick pony. Either you got it or you don't.
All the Aggro decks that survived (aka stayed Tier 1) had a plan B.
This deck has too. Hollow Vine not.
Compare both sideboards (which are the epitome of switching gears):
We have great Midrange-Cards (Ooze, Finks), some sort of removal and a great lock piece Blood Moon.
Hollow Vine is not intended to play the midrange game. Once the threats are gone, there plan is gone.
They trade consistency for explosiveness.
It could be done, but the most interesting thing about this deck is, that is able to do a grind-game.
It rewards the right plays, format knowledge and good sideboarding.
Hollow Vine not. Just dump everything and hope for the best.
The sideboard is designed the same way.
How would this deck be able to play the mid-game?
It has just so many dead stuff, it couldn't be boarded out entirely.
i've tested Dredge yesterday in a 4 round tournament and decided to stick to it for the next couple of month.
This is my list right now:
4 bloodstained mire
2 stomping ground
3 copperline gorge
1 blood crypt
1 dakmor salvage
1 mountain
1 forest
2 blackcleave cliffs
1 steam vents
4 insolent neonate
4 golgari thug
4 stinkweed imp
4 prized amalgam
4 narcomoeba
4 bloodghast
4 cathartic reunion
3 life from the loam
3 conflagrate
1 darkblast
1 driven//despair
2 ancient grudge
2 collective brutality
2 lightning axe
1 gnaw to the bone
1 abrupt decay
1 destructive revelry
1 vengeful pharao
1 ghost quarter
1 golgari charm
1 thoughtseize
1 leyline of the void
1 haunted dead
I ended up losing to 5C Death's Shadow (both games have been lost due to Temur Battle Rage), a bye, than beating Burn 2-1 and beating Junk Midrange 2-1.
I consider another Discard-Outlet Maindeck because the Haunted Dead are part of my sideboard.
Is Haunted Dead, Tormenting Voice or Collective Brutality better for this purpose?
Right now i tend to include Tormenting Voice replacing Driven//Despair to speed things up and be more resilient to Discard-Effects.
Just looking for a good Sideboard Card vs Grixis Shadow because I really struggled to beat a resolved Kolaghans Command.
i've ran BW E&T half a year ago and dropped it finally because the Manabase killed me a couple of times.
I want to take another shot with White Eldrazi and TAxes in december (after GP Madrid) and would like to have your oppinions on my list:
1 horizon canopy
4 eldrazi temple
4 ghost quarter
1 mutavault
4 battlefield forge
6 plains
4 thraben inspector
4 aether vial
4 path to exile
4 leonin arbiter
4 eldrazi displacer
4 flickerwisp
4 blade splicer
1 thalia, heretic cathar
4 thought-knot seer
2 stony silence
2 kitchen finks
2 mirran crusader
2 rest in peace
1 pithing needle
1 settle the wreckage
1 judge's familiar
1 fragmentize
1 celestial purge
1 engineered explosives
1 aven mindcensor
For a better understanding of my thought-process, i'll go into more detail here:
For the sideboard i sat down and created plans that fit to fight the top-dogs in the Meta:
Affinity
I know that this is a atrocious matchup, so i've dedicated plenty of slots for it. I'm not a fan of slamming more and more Stony Silence into my side because they take away slots against other fringe-strategy decks.
+1 fragmentize
+2 stony silence
+1 pithing needle
+1 judge's familia,
+1 settle the wreckage
+1 aven mindcensor
+1 engineered explosives
-4 aether vial
-2 leonin arbiter
-1 thalia, heretic cathar
-1 eldrazi displacer
Explosives and Stony are a non-bo, but if either one resolves they are devastating. Displacer is a bit slow (maybe i'm wrong here since he can flicker everything), maybe taking out TKS is better. The rest of my cards are basically to chump-block (FAmiliar, Mindcensor), remove (Fragmentize, Settle the Wreckage) or shutting down important cards (Needle, Stony).
Merfolk
A deck i commonly ran into.
+1 Settle the Wreckage
+1 Explosives
+1 Needle
+1 Fragmentize
-2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 Leonin Arbiter
-1 Blade Splicer
None of my Cards is particularly good against fishes. Thalia is easily outclassed and doesn't tax anything important, Arbiter is 2/2 (No real offensive or defensive power) and Blade Splicer shares the same issue. This is the Matchup that i got no idea about, what Cards could break it. Needle shuts down Mutavault (Or Vial at worst), fragmentize hits spreading seas, Engineered Explosives on 2 wipes half there board and Settle means GG.
Eldrazi Tron
A matchup that is not super-common, but i face it regularly.
+1 Needle
+1 Fragmentize
+1 Settle the Wreckage
+1 Aven Mindcensor
-2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-2 ???
I'm hesitant to put in Stony Silence because Vial is important enough for trying to screw them.
Thalia is a bit underwhelming as it's easily outclassed by giant Spaghetti Monsters and doesn't tax a lot of things.
Needle is here for shutting down Karn, Endbringer, Walking Ballista and Collar. Fragmentize for Ratchet Bomb, Collar or Ballista, Settle the Wreckage can be a total Blowout for them. Eldrazi Displacer is the most important thing as it effectivly flickers every dude of them.
Death's Shadow
Annoying Thoughtseize come along there way.
+2 Kitchen Finks
+2 Mirran Crusader
+1 Rest in Peace
+1 Celestial Purge
(+1 Explosives)
-3 Aether Vial
-2 Flickerwisp
-1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Discard and plenty of removal are annoying to play against. Therefore i believe a single Aether Vial is ok because it's a horrible topdeck, but great in my opener. Crusader and Finks are hard to come by, RiP shuts there graveyard things down (maybe bring a 2nd copy???) and Purge hits allthere threats.
Cutting Vial means that [card]Flickerwisp[card] becomes worse (Sorcery-Speed flickering is way too predictable and less effective). Big Thalia can tempo them out, but at 3 Mana it's way late i think.
Jund
Basically the same as above, an Engineered Explosives can hit them pretty hard. Pithing Needle is a solution for Liliana, which can be a pain.
Burn
+1 Judge's Familiar
+2 Kitchen Finks
+1 Celestial Purge
-2 Eldrazi Displacer
-1 Flickerwisp
-1 Blade Splicer
My assumption is, that the Value-package is way too slow and mana-intensive to be reliable.
Therefore i cut some pieces, add Purge as removal, Familiar for countering important spells and Finks for lifegain.
There is an argument that Displacer and Wisp flicker Kitchen Finks is too good to stray away from. In my experience Burn has plenty of problems to deal with the deck (Thalia gave Burn-players headaches for days) and my maindeck is already great against them.
Storm
+1 Familiar
+2 Rest in Peace
+1 Purge
(+1 Explosives)
(+1 Aven Mindcensor)
-2 Blade Splicer
-1 Displacer
-1 Flickerwisp
Thalia is the biggest shot against them. They can go off with her in play if Baral is on the table, so the Value-package / 3 Drop-Slot is kinda slow to prevent that. Rest in Peace shuts off Past in Flames, Purge exiles Baral / Electromancer, Familiar counters Manamorphose or sth. else.
Mindcensor could be brought against Gifts Ungiven, Explosives as an additional removal.
Aven Mindcensor is a flex thing, only really shutting down Gifts, Expedition Map and Chord of Calling.
More likely this will become a Grafdigger's Cage for dealing with Collected Company.
Engineered Explosives is a flex spot too as 2 colors with only 5 duals is hard to come by. Ratchet Bomb is another offender to fight against Merfolk and Jund / Junk (killing Lingering Souls Tokens).
Hope of Ghirapur is a bad card and surely doesn't deserve this spot. Everything else is better here (think of
These Split-Cards are more likely a finisher.
I can see your argument for Clame, but it doesn't trigger Vengevine in any way (even not with Vexing Devil out of the graveyard).
Manamorphose is just here to enable Talara's Battalion, which is quite bad.
Cut 2 morphose and 2 Superion (they are rather clunky).
5 Cards to consider are as follows:
Narnam Renegade fits into the Revolt-trigger theme, blocks all creatures to death.
Goblin Bushwhacker pumps the team. With costing RR it is declassified, but always worth watching out for.
Bone Picker - you really need a Creature to die to make this reliably work.
Mogg War Marshal talking about Revolt-trigger, this maybe another candidate.
Mogg Fanatic really need some help to get buffed, otherwise outclassed by every single creature out there.
You are running a couple of 2- and 3-ofs that are not well-funded through playtesting.
Redundancy is teh keyword here. Dismiss cute / spicy things (Claim Fame, Removal, Death's Shadow) and streamline your list.
You are in between everything - part of your list wants to be midrange, part of it wants to be aggro.
Talara's Battalion is fine as long as it replaces Reckless Bushwhacker. Herbalists / Emissary's does provide a good job in putting a bunch of em to the battlefield. Worst thing 'bout Battalion is the fact that you ran Superion along em.
There are so many distracting 2-, 3- and 1-of's, i'm wondering what brought you to that list?
Edit:
I'm pretty familiar with teh deck right now.
Games against Top tier decks are solid right now, not on the winning-spot but "challenge accepted"-thing.
The deck lacks a good lategame engine and loses a lot to grind-games.
I suggest Pia and Kiran Nalaar are perfectly fine along Blood Moon.
Also Mogg War Marshal is great, just alle the exile-sweepers prevents my from using it (flaying tendrills, kozilek's return, anger of the gods). Sulfur elemental is a great tool against all these lingering souls-Decks.
Great additions would be:
- Fatal Push
- Thoughtseize
- Claim // Fame
- Driven // Despair
- Collective Brutality
out of the sideboard.Just stumbled across this one and this one is a nice one!
Have you tested that one further? I'm willing to take it for some games after GP Madrid in december.
Why do you run 4 Fulminator Mage sideboard?
No love for Blood Moon?
some time ago i saw some lists that ran 4 collective brutality instead of 4 insolent neonate?
Did it have legs or was it just some kind of experiment?
No.
I believe i'll take this list to GP (with slight changes):
UG Eldrazi
i've recently started to prepare for GP Madrid in December and my team mates will play Burn and Junk.
Therefore i'm quite limited in playing Bant.
I thought packing Vapor Snag replacing Path to Exile could be a good idea and i soon crossed an article about UG Eldrazi featuring Elder Deep-Fiend.
Is this one competitive? Or should i just play Bant and substitute Snag for Path?
Here's my initial idea:
4 ghost quarter
2 mutavault
1 sea gate wreckage
4 caves of koilos
8 plains
3 thraben inspector
4 Aether vial
4 path to exile
4 thalia, thraben inspector
4 leonin arbiter
2 smuggler's Copter
4 flickerwisp
4 thought-knot seer
I opted to bring more of a white-weenie deck to the table.
Thraben INspector and Smuggler's Copter should fix bad draws.
Judge's Familiar is here to fix issues against fast Combo-Decks (Storm) and block Affinity's Critters (a big flaw with other builds).
What is your opinion on that list?
While i was pretty disappointed when Wasteland Strangler falled out of favor for D'n'T, i instantly dropped the deck.
I was too not happy with there bad draws but knew it could be fixed.
The lack of removal in D'n'T, the lackluster beaters and the disruption-package doesn't fit my playstyle.
So i've created another Deck called Esper Hatebears.
Here it is:
4 Judge's Familiar
3 Thraben Inspector
4 Aether Vial
2 Smuggler's copter
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Spell Queller
2 Reflector Mage
2 Flickerwisp
3 path to exile
2 FAtal Push
The real new stuff here is Spell Queller which works too fine along Wasteland Strangler (Queller exiles).
Judge's FAmiliar disrupts as early as Turn 1, prevent fast combo Decks from going off or even hitting a Push on another Hatebear.
Tidehollow Sculler and Smuggler's Copter are the noteworthy 2-Drops. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben would be the usual fit, but in the last couple of month she let me down pretty hard.
Queller, Wisp, Strangler and Reflector Mage are all great at disrupting in the 3-Drop Slot.
Restoration Angel finally bring in the Beatz and has enough flicker-targets.
The numbers maybe wrong, but the initial idea is done.
What do you think about this deck?
Like Izzetmage explained, after a Boardwipe or an initial attack this deck can come back.
Hole One's not. They are simply one more "All-in" strategy we had so many of in the past couple of years.
The huge difference is that @Izzetmage List rewards good plays, whereas slamming Goblin Guide into Cathartic Reunion ist just awkward - a one-trick pony. Either you got it or you don't.
All the Aggro decks that survived (aka stayed Tier 1) had a plan B.
This deck has too. Hollow Vine not.
Compare both sideboards (which are the epitome of switching gears):
We have great Midrange-Cards (Ooze, Finks), some sort of removal and a great lock piece Blood Moon.
Hollow Vine is not intended to play the midrange game. Once the threats are gone, there plan is gone.
They trade consistency for explosiveness.
It could be done, but the most interesting thing about this deck is, that is able to do a grind-game.
It rewards the right plays, format knowledge and good sideboarding.
Hollow Vine not. Just dump everything and hope for the best.
The sideboard is designed the same way.
How would this deck be able to play the mid-game?
It has just so many dead stuff, it couldn't be boarded out entirely.
With Thraben Inspector, Smuggler's Copter and some Thopter-stuff (Thopter Engineer, Pia and Kiran Nalaar) there is plenty of room for innovation. Along Blood Moon and Wall of Omen (can crew Copter) there are a lot of flicker-targets (Kitchen Finks...)