I've ran the deck at some tournaments and was really confused about the discussion here.
Hollow One puts the deck in another spot and deserved another thread for it.
The difference in both decks are the following ones:
Vengevine Aggro is not a one-trick Pony. This deck has a lategame.
It has self-mill spells and is able to bust out crazy Haste 5/3's and so on.
The payoff-Spells are Hooting Mandrills (costs literally 1 Mana) and Vengevine (triggered by a lot of creatures.
It has the ability to "tutor" (not in a common sense) for Enchantments or Creatures.
Reckless Bushwhacker allows for explosive instant-win turns even if we are far behind.
Hollow One on the other side warps the deck this way, that a lot of discard-stuff is needed (Cathartic Reunion).
This leads to pretty ugly situations when players draw like a Reunion and just held 1 other Card.
I can't see how this deck is supposed to come back after it is on his backfoot once. Gather the Pack mills, "tutors" and gives card advantage (if you are playing well) - Reunion can't do that.
It's a one-trick Pony, simple as that.
Im not gonna see how Hollow-Decks suppose to do the midrange-Game.
It's just too much stuff in the deck that does not line up well on it's own.
Reunion into an empty hand, Hollow One with no discard, Delve-Guys looking for a fueled graveyard (that can't be done by a single Cathartic), the enablers for Vengevine are mediocre on it's own (Swiftspear + Guide and Vengevine deals 7 damage, Burning-Tree into Bushwhacker triggering Vengevine deals 10 at all - you get the idea).
The only upside i watch out for are the pump-Spells, but again they need a fueled Grave (Become Immense) or 2 Mana (BAttle Rage).
I just chipped in a bunch of GAmes with Knightfall, but the only reasonable 2-Drop here is Selfless Spirit.
All the others were quite lackluster, because they have only limited upsides or payoffs in the long run.
That's my biggest problem with the deck, the 2-Mana creatures except Spirit are not that super-great.
They are all 2/x and disrupts the opponent just slightly or nothing at all.
yesterday i've piloted Bant Knightfall for the first time to a 3-1 finish.
I didn't want to go into detail, because my 2 wins against Death's Shadow has been because of there bad draws and my third win was against a more kitchen-table Bant Emeria Brew.
I want instead to discuss my decklist because i've picked the deck with a more Zoo / Beatdown-Plan in mind.
Some weird choices though, but i'm a big believer that this deck is more of a beatdown plan.
That's why i choose Rhonas and tracker, not Reflector Mage or Courser.
Simic Charm is a flex spot and super-experimental.
I maybe total wrong on this one, maybe another Creature fits better here.
You may have noticed that i run just 7 Dorks, that's because it't awkward to have 2 dorks in the opener, but even more awkward to have 3.
Also Birds of Paradise is not super-great, just ok'ish.
Tireless Tracker impressed me the most, Selfless Spirit has been great too.
I wasn't able to combo once and boarded the Combo out every time because i didn't expect that it would win me the game.
What not everybody knows is that this combo is in RW colors which opens up a lot of brewing space.
What i am looking for is a Mardu or Boros Build that exploits the flicker interaction with cards like Wall of Omens, Kitchen Finks and Pia and Kiran Nalaar.
I took the primer decklist and just slammed the deck.
2 things worth mentioning:
It seems that collected company is the real payoff card of the deck.
I wish i could just have a 5th one because i just demanded it in some situations.
Sideboard:
What is Monastery Siege for? Burn?
It's a clunky card that doesn't seem to do so much on it's own.
Also the 4 Counterspells have been a bit too much.
I just wish to board in an all-around counter, but the most problematic things for this deck are Karn, Anger, Engineered Explosives, Liliana...
Just a rough sketch, 1 Card is missing right now.
The best removal, pump and creatures.
Card advantage in inspector and confidant + Copter, beats and resilience through Champion's and Kytheon.
Strongest sideboard options in Stony, RiP, Collective brutality, Blessed Alliance, Fulminator Mage.
So a just disappointing 1-4 Drop for me at yesterday's 68 player tournament.
Sadly there were a huge amount of bad matchup decks.
Either it was Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, GW Tron, Burn, Affinity, Merfolk - Every Deck i saw looked like a mediocre to bad opponent.
Thanks for the report, Polymorph. Your posted list looks similar to what I was running before I started trying out the Scullers again. It's definitely running a more aggressive, creature-beats gameplan, and I think Matter Reshaper is amazing in that shell. As you say, not so sure about 2x Cavern of Souls though. Question: How is Sea Gate Wreckage playing out for you? Has it fed Collective Brutality for you at all?
I think the two-drop slot in an Eldrazi deck is a little unusual. With a Temple in play, either Reshaper or Eternal Scourge are excellent T2 plays. The Sculler build suffers for not having that option since Strangler is far, far weaker on T2 than either, if it can't process.
Wreckage was good.
It shined in the super-long grind games were every player is in topdeck-mode.
I've tested Sculler for 2 weeks and it was super-awkward and plain bad.
This Deck doesn't aim to out-tempo or heavily disrupt your opponent, hoping to dodge Removal and beat down with a 2/2.
The untold truth is - Reality Smasher is what this decks aims to get to.
You want to smash faces. 4-of Smasher is essential for winning games out of nowhere!
This deck try to bridge the gap till Tunr 3-5 with disruption until teh way is clear for our Bombs.
This bombs should end teh game in a couple of turns. Sculler is a lot of durdling around - it does nothing really well, is a horrendous topdeck and has to trade with Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant or even worse gets stonewalled by Goyf, Tasigur etc.
I know that Tidehollow Sculler gave us more disruption against Combo and Ramp-Decks.
But believe me, it's not worth it - they rip there combo-pieces of the top of there deck leaving you with the feeling that even the 10th Discard spell couldn't change that (so it is).
I'm willing to die against a T3 Karn Liberated instead of a Turn 5 Karn with a 2/2 on board.
The amassement of Discard will leave you with many dead Cards in the deck, especially past Turn 4, 5 and 6.
I'm a big believer in the fact that this deck is winning on the back of keeping a good oening hand instead of Durdle-Hatebears.
All of my threats must have an impact on the board.
Because of this Matter Reshaper is awesome.
Giving me necessary Cards, chumping, defending Sorin, being aggressive, giving me Value out of a Damnation / Living ENd.
Hollow One puts the deck in another spot and deserved another thread for it.
The difference in both decks are the following ones:
Vengevine Aggro is not a one-trick Pony. This deck has a lategame.
It has self-mill spells and is able to bust out crazy Haste 5/3's and so on.
The payoff-Spells are Hooting Mandrills (costs literally 1 Mana) and Vengevine (triggered by a lot of creatures.
It has the ability to "tutor" (not in a common sense) for Enchantments or Creatures.
Reckless Bushwhacker allows for explosive instant-win turns even if we are far behind.
Hollow One on the other side warps the deck this way, that a lot of discard-stuff is needed (Cathartic Reunion).
This leads to pretty ugly situations when players draw like a Reunion and just held 1 other Card.
I can't see how this deck is supposed to come back after it is on his backfoot once.
Gather the Pack mills, "tutors" and gives card advantage (if you are playing well) - Reunion can't do that.
It's a one-trick Pony, simple as that.
Im not gonna see how Hollow-Decks suppose to do the midrange-Game.
It's just too much stuff in the deck that does not line up well on it's own.
Reunion into an empty hand, Hollow One with no discard, Delve-Guys looking for a fueled graveyard (that can't be done by a single Cathartic), the enablers for Vengevine are mediocre on it's own (Swiftspear + Guide and Vengevine deals 7 damage, Burning-Tree into Bushwhacker triggering Vengevine deals 10 at all - you get the idea).
The only upside i watch out for are the pump-Spells, but again they need a fueled Grave (Become Immense) or 2 Mana (BAttle Rage).
All the others were quite lackluster, because they have only limited upsides or payoffs in the long run.
That's my biggest problem with the deck, the 2-Mana creatures except Spirit are not that super-great.
They are all 2/x and disrupts the opponent just slightly or nothing at all.
I'd love to slam Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, but i feel that she dampers Knightfall too.
yesterday i've piloted Bant Knightfall for the first time to a 3-1 finish.
I didn't want to go into detail, because my 2 wins against Death's Shadow has been because of there bad draws and my third win was against a more kitchen-table Bant Emeria Brew.
I want instead to discuss my decklist because i've picked the deck with a more Zoo / Beatdown-Plan in mind.
4 wooded foothills
2 flooded strand
2 breeding pool
2 temple garden
1 stomping ground
1 hallowed fountain
3 forest
1 plains
1 kessig wolf run
1 gavony township
4 noble hierarch
3 voice of resurgence
2 scavenging ooze
2 selfless spirit
2 qasali pridemage
4 knight of the reliquary
4 spell queller
2 tireless tracker
1 rhonas, the indomitable
4 path to exile
2 retreat to coralhelm
1 simic charm
Some weird choices though, but i'm a big believer that this deck is more of a beatdown plan.
That's why i choose Rhonas and tracker, not Reflector Mage or Courser.
Simic Charm is a flex spot and super-experimental.
I maybe total wrong on this one, maybe another Creature fits better here.
You may have noticed that i run just 7 Dorks, that's because it't awkward to have 2 dorks in the opener, but even more awkward to have 3.
Also Birds of Paradise is not super-great, just ok'ish.
Tireless Tracker impressed me the most, Selfless Spirit has been great too.
I wasn't able to combo once and boarded the Combo out every time because i didn't expect that it would win me the game.
i've written a Blog-entry about this deck as i have dropped it.
It's a bit harsh but i hope you don't mind.
The deck was a whole lot of fun and my first Midrange-Deck after playing 4 years of Modern.
Please give some feedback and enjoy playing Thoughseizes and Reality Smashers
becoming sad man
I was just looking for a possible Mardu-Build to invest money into.
I was aware of the Kiki-Chord Naya Deck, just was looking for alternatives.
the combination of Restoration Angel and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is known to everybody right now.
What not everybody knows is that this combo is in RW colors which opens up a lot of brewing space.
What i am looking for is a Mardu or Boros Build that exploits the flicker interaction with cards like Wall of Omens, Kitchen Finks and Pia and Kiran Nalaar.
Things like Mogg War Marshal, Pia Nalaar or Thraben Inspector are welcome too.
I got no idea which Thread this topic belongs to because it doesn't fit anywhere perfectly.
Does anybody have an idea which direction i can head to?
Is there a reason that nobody runs Scryb Ranger?
It has obvious synergies with the deck, so therefore i'll test this in the future.
therefore i cut it.
I took the primer decklist and just slammed the deck.
2 things worth mentioning:
It seems that collected company is the real payoff card of the deck.
I wish i could just have a 5th one because i just demanded it in some situations.
Sideboard:
What is Monastery Siege for? Burn?
It's a clunky card that doesn't seem to do so much on it's own.
Also the 4 Counterspells have been a bit too much.
I just wish to board in an all-around counter, but the most problematic things for this deck are Karn, Anger, Engineered Explosives, Liliana...
Has someone experimented with other counters?
Unsubstiante or stuff like Simic Charm / Sultai Charm?
On another note:
It felt like this list needs another Dork.
Propably Elves of the Deep Shadow over a single Essence Warden?
3 marsh flats
2 godless shrine
2 swamp
2 plains
3 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
2 cavern of souls
4 champion of the parish
4 bloodsoaked champion
2 kytheon, hero of akros
4 dark confidant
4 thalia's lieutenant
2 thalia, guardian of thraben
2 mirran crusader
2 liliana, defiant necromancer
2 zealous persecution
4 path to exile
4 fatal push
Just a rough sketch, 1 Card is missing right now.
The best removal, pump and creatures.
Card advantage in inspector and confidant + Copter, beats and resilience through Champion's and Kytheon.
Strongest sideboard options in Stony, RiP, Collective brutality, Blessed Alliance, Fulminator Mage.
Looks like a promising candidate for RW Aggro Humans.
I got the idea af a more Aristocrat-Style Human Deck.
Doomed Traveler, Cartel Aristocrat along Falkenrath Aristocrat.
Is there a chance of getting legs with this approach?
Running wiht Tidehollow Sculler today, still not happy wiht teh build - 2:1.
Really believing that Matter Reshaper is teh way to head on!
Sadly there were a huge amount of bad matchup decks.
Either it was Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, GW Tron, Burn, Affinity, Merfolk - Every Deck i saw looked like a mediocre to bad opponent.
Wreckage was good.
It shined in the super-long grind games were every player is in topdeck-mode.
This Deck doesn't aim to out-tempo or heavily disrupt your opponent, hoping to dodge Removal and beat down with a 2/2.
The untold truth is - Reality Smasher is what this decks aims to get to.
You want to smash faces. 4-of Smasher is essential for winning games out of nowhere!
This deck try to bridge the gap till Tunr 3-5 with disruption until teh way is clear for our Bombs.
This bombs should end teh game in a couple of turns. Sculler is a lot of durdling around - it does nothing really well, is a horrendous topdeck and has to trade with Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant or even worse gets stonewalled by Goyf, Tasigur etc.
I know that Tidehollow Sculler gave us more disruption against Combo and Ramp-Decks.
But believe me, it's not worth it - they rip there combo-pieces of the top of there deck leaving you with the feeling that even the 10th Discard spell couldn't change that (so it is).
I'm willing to die against a T3 Karn Liberated instead of a Turn 5 Karn with a 2/2 on board.
The amassement of Discard will leave you with many dead Cards in the deck, especially past Turn 4, 5 and 6.
I'm a big believer in the fact that this deck is winning on the back of keeping a good oening hand instead of Durdle-Hatebears.
All of my threats must have an impact on the board.
Because of this Matter Reshaper is awesome.
Giving me necessary Cards, chumping, defending Sorin, being aggressive, giving me Value out of a Damnation / Living ENd.