As in the title, it's just a great interaction. Particularly strong after blocks or attackers are declared. You can even swing with all your attackers, intimate the use of a pump spell to make them block poorly, and then on their return swing use Helix, untap and +1 everything with Jeskai Ascendancy, potentially trigger Prowess on a creature, declare blockers, then tap the Retraction Helix creature to return their biggest threat. Then you can even loot for a card you need.
Its also dirt cheap at only U, so you can constantly threaten with it as a combo and gain all kinds of Tempo.
Just wanted to put it out there. I may be late to the party, but thought it bore scrutiny.
Sorry about that man, my bad formatting left a blank space in the link. It's been fixed
It was a UB Control deck during Theros standard in Japan. Didn't win but was piloted into, I think, the quarter-finals.
As far as potent finishers, you can see he uses MoW with other devotion cards to make it more meaningful, but also occasionally okay on its own. Prognostic Sphinx is pretty decent, and I think the powerhouse finisher in Blue these days is definitely Aetherling.
Definitely a different take on the deck, much more Control-y than my own. Let me know how it does!
I've considered Dimir Charm, and it can be a really nice way to use Dakra to not only get two cards but also deny them a good card afterwards for a nominal cost. That said, I've found it misses a lot of targets that I need to make sure die soon. Things like Desecration Demon or big Hydras just don't get murderized by it, whereas in my deck I've got big enough creatures that they'll have to be the ones making an effort to break through with big guys or remove my peeps.
I think in a more controlling shell you may have a better time with it, but for me I think Doom Blade or Ultimate Price would be better served. At least for the moment.
Even if they're not necessarily great at ending games, peeps will often spend removal just to get rid of something really annoying
At least, at my level of play they do haha.
Unfortunately for the Siren, she often ends up being meh, even as a removal magnet. Maybe in an Inspired deck she'd fit right in but for now it looks like she's getting cut. The Omenspeaker, while good for helping survive aggro, is also pretty subpar at the moment. I feel like I have enough 2 drop removal that I can probably just move the creature curve up a little bit to three drops or even to 5 drops a la Gary.
Well, the PW game was fun but I agree with the above. The PWs themselves didn't have enough synergy to push the games out. They were all very annoying on their own, but couldn't control the field too well and couldn't win without quite a bit of outside support. Good times though.
So, I've got a different BUG control as well as an update to the UB version.
It's mostly just BUG good stuff with a few interactions. Notion Thief is still worth it imo because of the sheer amount of Sphinx out there, as well as the interaction with Master of the Feast. Admittedly, without the Dictate of Kruphix and the Dakra Mystic it starts to be less necessary. Still, the thief is annoying enough that people still target him and if they for some reason don't, you can eventually Whispering Madness them into a hole. No Mutavaults makes this a good deal weaker against Control, but the Golgari Charm and Hydra are great bonuses from having G present. Regarding the lands, I may also want Mana Confluence and drop the Watery Graves (or something like that).
So, advantages here: More space in the deck and SB to tweak things. The BUG deck is very short on space for the things that G adds to it, plus the mana requirements. Fewer threats, better control, and its much easier to cast everything and hit all the right colors. Mutavault is an All-Star against control, of course, but I lose any way to deal with pesky Enchantments. This is a faster deck, so it can sometimes take care of that. There are also a lot of "must kill" targets here, and all of them hit the face hard.
The Siren of Silent Song is an experiment right now. I want something in the three spot that hits to the face, but also has an added annoyance. Something people will want to spend removal on, basically. So, Lifebane Zombie is definitely on the list but I wanted to try something further out there. In this case, the bonus of making them discard cards seemed pretty potent to me especially since I'm not letting them draw up with Notion Thief. So far the Siren has been so-so, but I leave it in here since its the current build.
It probably could have been said with more tact But I basically agree with the above.
You have some Jace for U, but at best that'll be 2 Blue devotion. Thassa is herself 1 Blue Devotion, and then the Master of Waves is himself 1 Blue Devotion. Unless you're against someone just letting you go for whatevs, the odds of having a significant amount of devotion is pretty low. MoW is your only real win con here, but will probably just turn on their creature kill since there's nothing else to really target until he comes out.
The overall idea is a good one, and I hate to harp on the build (I love UB), but there's a good example of this deck over here
Similar win cons, but with a few more devotion wins. It did decently back in Theros, but was pretty exclusively tailored to the meta for that time. It needs tweaking to continue to compete right now, if you want to be the guy tweaking it to a win.
Regarding the sideboard its a bit of a mess. You don't even really have anything to tap with Phenax to use him, and you're even less likely to turn him on as a creature. Agent of Erebos is great hate against GY decks, but they're not really prevalent in general. If you happen to know there's a bunch of them around, it might be fine but if you're also trying for a Mill win con you may consider Crypt Incursion instead since it'll gain you quite a lot of life against Dredge.
metalcrafter, honestly it's very easy for me to move down into a UB midrangey aggro because that is where my heart truly lies But I am trying something slightly different with the BUG version of the same. For funsies, here's the UB version of the same deck
Its also pretty severely undertuned, but it's a lot easier to find space in the deck, since we only have so many UB cards. I do get the occasional abuse of Whispering Madness, though, which is fragile but very entertaining
Basically you're taking as many quasi symmetrical effects, and making them favor you completely. Dakra Mystic's ability is already decent, but not great on its own. Now it's a U draw two cards with Notion Thief. Master of the Feast is a 5/5 for 3 with a pretty potent downside, but now its a 5/5 for 3 that draws you an extra card during your own upkeep (And you can respond to the trigger on your own upkeep to flash in Notion Thief to steal the card, if you'd like). Dictate of Kruphix is a nice symmetrical draw effect for 3, with Flash so you get access to the draw first. Now it's a draw a card during each player's turn.
It's still a heavy work in progress, but it functions as BUG superfriends with crazy amounts of draw. Almost everything that hits the field has to be answered, which means they're going to be short on answers. With the card draw you have available, including access to their own critters (Thanks Ash!), the goal is to have an answer to everything they might play while ticking up PWs and beating face with the Master of the Feast.
Minor testing so far shows the Dakra Mystics underperforming, and weakness against aggro decks (including white weenie and suicide black). Part of that is the mana base, which needs tweaking (probably decreasing the number of enter tapped lands by cutting the amount of G mana I'm producing for Kiora). The sideboard is intended to combat aggro, with the Whip also bringing a hasty 5/5 Flying from the GY if you need to close it out. Various kill spells to fill holes as well, and then a set of Duress, 2 counters, and Aetherling for those control games (though against Control, again, they have a lot of things they need to answer against us in order to stay alive).
At the moment, I feel like I can maybe make space for some Green cards (which are currently lacking) and rounding out the curve a bit. Tweaking the manabase, and testing it out against various decks when possible. Any advice or suggestions, though, are appreciated
I feel like counterspells, Thoughtseize, this Mystic, Dictate of Kruphix, and Notion Thief have, if nothing else, an interesting combination to control the game.
If I could humbly point to my UB Control deck, the main win-con is Mill and Aetherling, so it may just fit the kind of thing you're looking for. (I know Nev's seen it, but seeing as the thread's looking for Mill.)
MoW is definitely better against burn, and honestly I like the card more. It doesn't give me those free wins that Pack Rat will after they've sided out most of their removal in g2 or even g3. That said, I'm still testing out the two, but for now I have the rats sitting in the SB.
I agree with that one Elixir, if I can't live to see a Crypt Incursion with 2 in the deck, odds are good I'm pretty seriously boned.
Probably a stupid idea, but I'm also going to try for Reap Intellect in the Side for control and other slow matchups. I just want to see if it does anything (and I saw it was included in the BUG Control on the WotC site which made me think I should at least give it a shot rather than ignoring it).
Its also dirt cheap at only U, so you can constantly threaten with it as a combo and gain all kinds of Tempo.
Just wanted to put it out there. I may be late to the party, but thought it bore scrutiny.
~DD
It was a UB Control deck during Theros standard in Japan. Didn't win but was piloted into, I think, the quarter-finals.
As far as potent finishers, you can see he uses MoW with other devotion cards to make it more meaningful, but also occasionally okay on its own. Prognostic Sphinx is pretty decent, and I think the powerhouse finisher in Blue these days is definitely Aetherling.
~DD
Definitely a different take on the deck, much more Control-y than my own. Let me know how it does!
I've considered Dimir Charm, and it can be a really nice way to use Dakra to not only get two cards but also deny them a good card afterwards for a nominal cost. That said, I've found it misses a lot of targets that I need to make sure die soon. Things like Desecration Demon or big Hydras just don't get murderized by it, whereas in my deck I've got big enough creatures that they'll have to be the ones making an effort to break through with big guys or remove my peeps.
I think in a more controlling shell you may have a better time with it, but for me I think Doom Blade or Ultimate Price would be better served. At least for the moment.
~DD
At least, at my level of play they do haha.
Unfortunately for the Siren, she often ends up being meh, even as a removal magnet. Maybe in an Inspired deck she'd fit right in but for now it looks like she's getting cut. The Omenspeaker, while good for helping survive aggro, is also pretty subpar at the moment. I feel like I have enough 2 drop removal that I can probably just move the creature curve up a little bit to three drops or even to 5 drops a la Gary.
~DD
4 Master of the Feast
4 Desecration Demon
4 Notion Thief
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3 Thoughtseize
2 Bile Blight
2 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Whispering Madness
4 Watery Grave
4 Mutavault
4 Island
9 Swamp
2 Pithing Needle
1 Doom Blade
1 Bile Blight
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Psychic Strike
1 Curse of the Swine
2 Drown in Sorrow
4 Duress
Still working on it (Dictate of Kruphix might have a spot there somewhere?), but it definitely has some fun additions to the MBD milieu.
~DD
So, I've got a different BUG control as well as an update to the UB version.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Master of the Fesat
3 Notion Thief
3 Reaper of the Wilds
2 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Prophet of Kruphix
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Whispering Madness
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Watery Grave
5 Swamp
3 Island
2 Pithing Needle
2 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Duress
2 Bile Blight
2 Golgari Charm
2 Psychic Strike
It's mostly just BUG good stuff with a few interactions. Notion Thief is still worth it imo because of the sheer amount of Sphinx out there, as well as the interaction with Master of the Feast. Admittedly, without the Dictate of Kruphix and the Dakra Mystic it starts to be less necessary. Still, the thief is annoying enough that people still target him and if they for some reason don't, you can eventually Whispering Madness them into a hole. No Mutavaults makes this a good deal weaker against Control, but the Golgari Charm and Hydra are great bonuses from having G present. Regarding the lands, I may also want Mana Confluence and drop the Watery Graves (or something like that).
4 Pack Rat
2 Siren of the Silent Song
4 Master of the Feast
4 Desecration Demon
4 Notion Thief
3 Thoughtseize
2 Bile Blight
2 Devour Flesh
3 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Whispering Madness
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
8 Swamp
5 Island
2 Pithing Needle
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Bile Blight
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Psychic Strike
2 Drown in SOrrow
4 Duress
So, advantages here: More space in the deck and SB to tweak things. The BUG deck is very short on space for the things that G adds to it, plus the mana requirements. Fewer threats, better control, and its much easier to cast everything and hit all the right colors. Mutavault is an All-Star against control, of course, but I lose any way to deal with pesky Enchantments. This is a faster deck, so it can sometimes take care of that. There are also a lot of "must kill" targets here, and all of them hit the face hard.
The Siren of Silent Song is an experiment right now. I want something in the three spot that hits to the face, but also has an added annoyance. Something people will want to spend removal on, basically. So, Lifebane Zombie is definitely on the list but I wanted to try something further out there. In this case, the bonus of making them discard cards seemed pretty potent to me especially since I'm not letting them draw up with Notion Thief. So far the Siren has been so-so, but I leave it in here since its the current build.
~DD
You have some Jace for U, but at best that'll be 2 Blue devotion. Thassa is herself 1 Blue Devotion, and then the Master of Waves is himself 1 Blue Devotion. Unless you're against someone just letting you go for whatevs, the odds of having a significant amount of devotion is pretty low. MoW is your only real win con here, but will probably just turn on their creature kill since there's nothing else to really target until he comes out.
The overall idea is a good one, and I hate to harp on the build (I love UB), but there's a good example of this deck over here
Similar win cons, but with a few more devotion wins. It did decently back in Theros, but was pretty exclusively tailored to the meta for that time. It needs tweaking to continue to compete right now, if you want to be the guy tweaking it to a win.
Regarding the sideboard its a bit of a mess. You don't even really have anything to tap with Phenax to use him, and you're even less likely to turn him on as a creature. Agent of Erebos is great hate against GY decks, but they're not really prevalent in general. If you happen to know there's a bunch of them around, it might be fine but if you're also trying for a Mill win con you may consider Crypt Incursion instead since it'll gain you quite a lot of life against Dredge.
~DD
4 Master of the Feast
4 Notion Thief
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
3 Syncopate
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Psychic Strike
1 Whispering Madness
2 Pithing Needle
2 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Bile Blight
2 Golgari Charm
2 Psychic Strike
2 Drown in SSorrow
3 Duress
Its still a lot of fun to play, and the added versatility of G means I can actually destroy some enchantments (woo!).
~DD
4 Master of the Feast
4 Notion Thief
4 Desecration Demon
2 Thoughtseize
3 Syncopate
2 Devour Flesh
2 Ultimate Price
2 Dictate of Kruphix
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Psychic Strike
2 Whispering Madness
4 Watery Grave
4 Mutavault
5 Island
8 Swamp
2 Pithing Needle
4 Duress
2 Bile Blight
2 Ultimate Price
2 Psychic Strike
3 Drown in Sorrow
Its also pretty severely undertuned, but it's a lot easier to find space in the deck, since we only have so many UB cards. I do get the occasional abuse of Whispering Madness, though, which is fragile but very entertaining
~DD
The primary interaction is between Dakra Mystic, Master of the Feast, Dictate of Kruphix, and the lowly lowly Notion Thief.
Basically you're taking as many quasi symmetrical effects, and making them favor you completely. Dakra Mystic's ability is already decent, but not great on its own. Now it's a U draw two cards with Notion Thief. Master of the Feast is a 5/5 for 3 with a pretty potent downside, but now its a 5/5 for 3 that draws you an extra card during your own upkeep (And you can respond to the trigger on your own upkeep to flash in Notion Thief to steal the card, if you'd like). Dictate of Kruphix is a nice symmetrical draw effect for 3, with Flash so you get access to the draw first. Now it's a draw a card during each player's turn.
Here's what I have so far,
3 Master of the Feast
4 Notion Thief
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
3 Syncopate
3 Thoughtseize
2 Psychic Strike
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Dictate of Kruphix
4 Swamp
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Watery Grave
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Aetherling
2 Bile Blight
2 Psychic Strike
2 Ultimate Price
3 Drown in Sorrow
4 Duress
It's still a heavy work in progress, but it functions as BUG superfriends with crazy amounts of draw. Almost everything that hits the field has to be answered, which means they're going to be short on answers. With the card draw you have available, including access to their own critters (Thanks Ash!), the goal is to have an answer to everything they might play while ticking up PWs and beating face with the Master of the Feast.
Minor testing so far shows the Dakra Mystics underperforming, and weakness against aggro decks (including white weenie and suicide black). Part of that is the mana base, which needs tweaking (probably decreasing the number of enter tapped lands by cutting the amount of G mana I'm producing for Kiora). The sideboard is intended to combat aggro, with the Whip also bringing a hasty 5/5 Flying from the GY if you need to close it out. Various kill spells to fill holes as well, and then a set of Duress, 2 counters, and Aetherling for those control games (though against Control, again, they have a lot of things they need to answer against us in order to stay alive).
At the moment, I feel like I can maybe make space for some Green cards (which are currently lacking) and rounding out the curve a bit. Tweaking the manabase, and testing it out against various decks when possible. Any advice or suggestions, though, are appreciated
~DD
Heck, even Dimir Charm can have a place in there, or Whispering Madness.
~DD
Yes. Yesssss. Much cards. So notion. Wow.
~DD
So, with Notion Thief out this is tap pay U, draw two cards? I do like that, yeesss.
~DD
3 Thoughtseize
2 Bile Blight
2 Syncopate
2 Ultimate Price
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Psychic Strike
1 Crypt Incursion
3 Inspiration
2 Domestication
3 Far // Away
1 Opportunity
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Dimir Guildgate
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
6 Swamp
6 Island
4 Mutavault
2 Pithing Needle
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Pack Rat
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Notion Thief
3 Drown in Sorrow
1 Crypt Incursion
~DD
I agree with that one Elixir, if I can't live to see a Crypt Incursion with 2 in the deck, odds are good I'm pretty seriously boned.
Probably a stupid idea, but I'm also going to try for Reap Intellect in the Side for control and other slow matchups. I just want to see if it does anything (and I saw it was included in the BUG Control on the WotC site which made me think I should at least give it a shot rather than ignoring it).
~DD