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  • posted a message on 7CBB - Research/Game: To Infinity and Beyond (@ Turn 2^1024 + 9234)
    A new card makes one of my previous ideas work!

    Turn X: Mercurial Transformation on Doubling Season, Progenitor Mimic copying it, using mana from Sapseep Forest and Calciform Pools
    Turn X+1: In upkeep, in response to Progenitor Mimic's and Timberline Ridge's triggered abilities, tap Timberline Ridge for G, adding 4 depletion counters, to activate Sapseep Forest, going to 21 life.
    Repeat once the depletion counters run out. If the number of depletion counters is N once, it will exceed 2^^N the next time. 4 = 2^^^2, then 29 more iterations, so the final delay exceeds 2^^^31.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on Precursor Golems and copy creature spells
    There are some mistakes in the previous. Firstly, it is not true that the number of ordinary golems is quadrupled each time: 96*4=384, not 288. Secondly, a Precursor Golem produces two golem tokens, not three.

    This is what I think is correct:
    (still not counting the initially targeted Precursor Golem until the end)
    Start: 8 Precursor Golems
    After first copying trigger and going through its results: 8+8=16 Precursor Golems, 8*2=16 plain golems
    Second one: 16+16=32 Precursor Golems, 16 + 16 (direct copies) + 16*2 (from new Precursor Golems) = 64 plain golems
    Third one: 32+32=64 Precursor Golems, 64+64+32*2=192 plain golems
    Fourth one: 64+64=128 Precursor Golems, 192+192+64*2=512 plain golems
    Fifth one: 128+128=256 Precursor Golems, 512+512+128*2=1280 plain golems
    Sixth one: 256+256=512 Precursor Golems, 1280+1280+256*2=3072 plain golems
    Seventh one: 512+512=1024 Precursor Golems, 3072+3072+512*2=7168 plain golems
    Eighth one: 1024+1024=2048 Precursor Golems, 7168+7168+1024*2=16384 plain golems
    Ninth one: 2048+2048=4096 Precursor Golems, 16384+16384+2048*2=36864 plain golems
    Finally, add the initially targeted Precursor Golem and one copy of it, for 4098.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on 7CBB - Research/Game: To Infinity and Beyond (@ Turn 2^1024 + 9234)
    Quote from nerdyjoe »
    A 9 card list:

    Sheltered Valley
    Saprazzan Cove
    Forbidden Orchard
    Sandstone Needle
    Doubling Season
    Argent Mutation
    Ensoul Artifact
    Progenitor Mimic

    Endgame, we cast sparkcaster 20 turns in a row. Since Sandstone Needle and Forbidden Orchard are the only lands that let us cast it, we need to get at least 20 counters on Cove. So we need at least 4 doubling seasons (2^4=16) before we play it. The first time mimic (as doubling season) triggers, it generates 4 new doubling seasons, so we're good to go at that point (playing Cove, and casting sparkcaster the first time). Each cast of sparkcaster gives the opponent several spirits. I'll just run through the number of doubling seasons, for the damage dealt. We have 6 (1), then 2^6+6 (2), then 2^{2^6+6} (3), then 2 ^2^...(19 of these)...^2^6. But we don't worry about the ones we give out when dealing leathal damage, so we get attacked by 2^^18 spirits the turn before we win. We gain enough life to ride this out over the first several turns, so this takes 2^^18 turns. (Here, if it isn't clear, ^^ is two up arrows from Knuth's up-arrow notation)

    That doesn't work, for several reasons:
    • Progenitor Mimic can copy the Spirit tokens.
    • Doubling Season applies only to tokens you control. (Primal Vigor doesn't, but it comes with another restriction that makes it not work here.)

    Quote from nerdyjoe »
    Fractured identity is has possible use in being a smaller-number-of-cards way to produce lots of doubling seasons.

    I did have a look at that too, but the exiling makes it difficult. The best I could come up with is
    and two more cards for mana production.
    The sequence with that is Quest for Ancient Secrets, Parallel Lives, Fractured Identity on Parallel Lives (1 counter on Quest for Ancient Secrets), Pull from Eternity on Parallel Lives (3 counters), Vengeful Rebirth on Pull from Eternity, Pull from Eternity on Vengeful Rebirth (5 counters), activate Quest for Ancient Secrets.
    But I haven't found any choice of mana producers that makes this take many turns, and even if there is one, it still just gives a tetration of less than 20.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on 7CBB - Research/Game: To Infinity and Beyond (@ Turn 2^1024 + 9234)
    I have been thinking about this, and have had some ideas that I haven't gotten to work yet.

    Still trying to exponentiate the opponent's creatures every turn:

    A small change to a previous deck:
    and something else; I'm thinking of something that requires two colored mana from Forbidden Orchard and Spire of Industry, and that can either add life or make progress towards winning.

    and one more card.
    This one runs into trouble with the mana requirement of Tamiyo, the Moon Sage; Soulfire Grand Master and Tasigur, the Golden Fang can also serve the same purpose, but unfortunately they can win on their own.

    This results in a large number of the opponent's tokens, but does not take a long time because the main process does not use any mana!
    Note that the second dependency on Coat of Arms, from Sinstriker's Will, is necessary; we cannot rely on just the dependency from the last ability of Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, because then it would be possible to accumulate loyalty counters without Coat of Arms, only playing it after getting enough.

    and probably some planeswalker; each turn, the opponent's tokens will attack the planeswalker, and one has to block those that can be blocked, and sacrifice the blocking tokens for mana and for life from Plunge into Darkness, then use Murderous Betrayal to destroy the enemy tokens that were not blocked.

    Taking a different direction:
    • red-green or green-white depletion land
    and something that requires red, green or white mana multiple times, and requires Progenitor Mimic to copy Doubling Season. Sapseep Forest would work if its ability were something useful; Goblin Kaboomist would work if the tokens could deal damage to players.

    Mechanized Production could also be used if there is a way to make a single permanent an artifact that doesn't last just one turn.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on Magic: Game Puzzles
    Nice. Now try to do it in two turns. (It is possible.)
    Posted in: Other Forum Games
  • posted a message on Magic: Game Puzzles
    Here's an alteration of an earlier one. Take the arrangement described here –
    Quote from nerdyjoe »
    So, I came up with a variation of the previous Conjurer's Ban puzzle. Here's the set up:

    Your opponent went infinite, capsized your board, time twistered, tormod's crypted your graveyard, played elish norn, pacifism on elish norn, cast Sphere of Safety, cast Uba Mask, cast Nevermore naming Dark Ritual, cast Liquimetal Coating, made Nevermore an artifact, cast Karn, Silver Golem, made nevermore a creature, cast Soulfire Grand Master, cast Mirror Gallery, cast Mangara of Corondor, cast rite of replication kicked targeting Mangara and bought back with Soulfire Grand Master. Then they copy Nevermore for every non-land card in the game, ending with rite of replication. Then they use Mangara to exile liquimetal coating, Karn and Soulfire Grand Master. They then pass turn, and dare you to kill them. For simplicity, assume they have 15,000 Nevermores. How quickly can you kill them? They're at 20 life, 0 poison counters, 49 cards in their deck, 7 cards in hand. You have 7 cards in hand, you can stack your deck, and have up to 4 copies of non-basic cards.

    Simple version: There's an Uba Mask, a Sphere of Safety, a Pacified Elesh Norn, and a Nevermore naming every non-land card on your opponent's side, you have no cards in play, and you can stack your deck. How fast can you win? [links added for convenience]

    Proof that you can win: If your deck is 30,000 Forests, your hand contains 6 forests and a Treetop Village, you can play the Treetop Village, play all the forests, then activate treetop each turn, pay for the sphere, and swing 20 turns in a row. 30,024 turns.

    – and add a few more permanents: Anafenza, the Foremost enchanted with a second Pacifism, and Kira, Great Glass-Spinner enchanted with a third Pacifism. How fast can you win now?
    Posted in: Other Forum Games
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Can Patron of the Orochi can be avoided by using Isochron Scepter, Druid's Deliverance, Sinking Feeling, and Ethereal Armor for copies of Bloodbond March? Unfortunately, it does not work out, because Sinking Feeling alone on one of the Paragons gives two activations per token, which is unacceptable.

    The latest set-up appears to go infinite: have the original Epic Experiment resolve, casting Demand and Chaos Warp, and with Demand still on the stack, use Reito Lantern on Epic Experiment and get it back with Demand, and after everything resolves, use Reito Lantern on Demand and on Chaos Warp and repeat.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Chrome Mox could be useful; it requires some changes (perhaps bring back March of the Machines and Mirror of Fate, and use Seal of Primordium to cover artifacts at the bottom), but then it allows for easy colour linking; for example, Mercenary Informer; Sokenzan Renegade; Ali Baba, Wall of Stone; Wall of Vapor; Ghosthelm Courier; Lim-Dûl the Necromancer; Fungal Bloom, 2 Woodland Changeling, Mana Echoes.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on What card am I thinking of 3 - The Guesses Strike back
    Is the card's converted mana cost less than or equal to the sum of all the numbers in its rules text? (Take into account any errata. Anything in brackets is not rules text. Numbers can be expressed as either numerals or words.)
    Posted in: Other Forum Games
  • posted a message on Perfect Hand Magic League 33:01 - 3 Card Omniscience - Round Complete - plopfill wins!
    I think #5 can actually beat #1 by simply casting Iona, Shield of Emeria (without casting Savage Summoning).
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on Perfect Hand Magic League 33:01 - 3 Card Omniscience - Round Complete - plopfill wins!
    My results:
    4 | 6 6 2 X 6
    Against #1: Use Mindbreak Traps on both creature spells and win with Beacon of Destruction.
    Against #2: Use Mindbreak Traps on the Commandeers; Beacon of Destruction wins on turn 4 going first or turn 3 going second, slightly faster than Akroma, Angel of Fury.
    Against #3: Use Mindbreak Trap on Progenitus, and use the second one if Last Word is cast; Time Stop cannot be cast here or else it exiles Progenitus as well. Time Stop exiles Beacon of Destruction, and this comes to a draw.
    Against #5: Use Mindbreak Traps on Last Word and Iona, Shield of Emeria, and win with Beacon of Destruction.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on What card am I thinking of 3 - The Guesses Strike back
    Does the card's rules text contain more than one complete sentence? (Anything in brackets is not rules text.)
    Rolling Thunder
    Posted in: Other Forum Games
  • posted a message on Hangman (For Reals)
    Posted in: Other Forum Games
  • posted a message on 7CBB - Research/Game: To Infinity and Beyond (@ Turn 2^1024 + 9234)
    Switching to Juniper Order Druid and Icatian Store should solve the problems, but then we need a different creature-type match, and the only option I see is the earlier-mentioned Sutured Ghoul and Smokespew Invoker, which, although resulting in slower increases, should still get past 2^^42. (When working this out, keep in mind the possibility of finishing creatures off in response to Forbidden Orchard's triggered ability, thereby taking them down a little earlier; this possibility seems to have been missed in earlier analyses.)
    Posted in: Forum Magic
  • posted a message on 7CBB - Research/Game: To Infinity and Beyond (@ Turn 2^1024 + 9234)
    This should be an improvement.

    Forbidden Orchard is used four times to charge Calciform Pools in the opponent's turns and once more to cast Tidewater Minion, which then stops the opponent from winning with the five spirits, and is used to charge Calciform Pools for a long time. Eventually, Ghost-Lit Raider is cast, and on the next turn, Intruder Alarm, Coat of Arms, and Splinterfright are cast. From then on, Ghost-Lit Raider, Forbidden Orchard, and Tidewater Minion have to be used to take down the opponent's creatures every turn, as well as white mana from Calciform Pools, and taking one down almost doubles the number of them. The resulting number of turns should be between 2^^42 and 2^^43.
    Posted in: Forum Magic
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