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  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from Soldier »
    Quote from TPeppe »



    For Leyline, you could also try siding Liquimetal Coating to turn Leyline into an artifact and then use an artifact removal of your choice.


    Thanks, I totally forget about this card. Is there any other similar card?


    Liquimetal Coating is super niche. Not to mention that you need both, and it doesn't really do anything on it's own. It means oversideboarding, and heavily diluting your game plan, because you need to bring in removal, and a decent number of coatings. That's like 6-8 sideboard cards. If you're having trouble with Leyline (and I'm assuming you're mono-red), then exchange the Coatings for just creatures. Or just shift to a creature-heavy build. They'll get the damage in that you otherwise wouldn't be able to.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Official] Altered Art Thread (56k Beware)
    I like the Forest. I'd suggest using a toothpick to uncover more of the name. I'm guessing you probably used one for the text box, but I feel like the word Forest is pretty covered up. Other than that, they look great.
    Posted in: Artwork
  • posted a message on [Official] Altered Art Thread (56k Beware)
    Thanks for the advice! I'm really coming to understand just how thin you want the paints now. Just finished a Yellow Scarves Cavalry where I think I got the consistency (mostly) correct. The left side still seems to be too thick.

    I love that Fatal Push, by the way.
    Posted in: Artwork
  • posted a message on [Official] Altered Art Thread (56k Beware)
    Just beginning to alter some of my stuff. Working on altering my (only) Grenzo commander deck. Currently working on 6/100. Please let me know if you have any advice or criticism!
    Posted in: Artwork
  • posted a message on Grenzo Goad Master, 5 Color Mono Red
    Quote from JamesBrine »
    I'm recently building a grenzo deck. I've played three games and each found Grenzo underwhelming. The deck does not seem to get going by turn 3-4 at the earliest. If I play turn 1 creature, turn 2 Grenzo I might get a spell for turn 3 from an opponent) but considering most edh decks start at 3 mana my chances of hitting a decent card are minimal. In addition, you need to cast the cards second main. Which seems really bad considering you want to play your cards typical before you attack. What turn does Grenzo begin to shine?


    You typically don't want to play your cards before you attack.... It would be helpful if you posted your deck list. I haven't had a problem with Grenzo, but maybe we're looking for different things with the deck. If you state what you expected then maybe the thread could point you in the right direction.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo Goad Master, 5 Color Mono Red
    That seems pretty decent. It may prove to be too little to make a real difference in Commander, but I like the look of it.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Grenzo Goad Master, 5 Color Mono Red
    Just jumped into this deck. Built it with mono-red draft leftovers, and it performed absurdly well playing 1v1. I haven't had a chance to play multiplayer with it yet, but I was surprised by how well the deck played out. I'm curious if you've played any more games with it?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Looking for some help brewing Atraxa, Friendship's Voice - Group Hug
    Quote from Phone »
    Hmm, I actually really like the idea Dunharrow. I completely see Gildanbladeborn's side of things as the first opponent I give it to would never be required to give it back (and I lose a lot of the Group Hug-ness of my commander now). However, my meta's pretty casual and if I asked that we always pass her off to the next player, everyone would chuckle and agree.
    Actually you don't need to worry about that, Assault Suit only gives your opponents control of the equipped creature until end of turn, then you get it back. Whether or not the next player in turn order gets to use Atraxa is completely up to you.


    Oh, I see. Thanks! That makes sense. Well, I think if I'm passing her around, then it wouldn't matter if people only proliferate their own things.

    Thanks for the comments! And thanks for correcting me on that rule.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Looking for some help brewing Atraxa, Friendship's Voice - Group Hug
    Hmm, I actually really like the idea Dunharrow. I completely see Gildanbladeborn's side of things as the first opponent I give it to would never be required to give it back (and I lose a lot of the Group Hug-ness of my commander now). However, my meta's pretty casual and if I asked that we always pass her off to the next player, everyone would chuckle and agree.

    I'm going to edit the original post to start a list of the cards suggested. Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I really feel like the list is shaping up, and I love the suggestions.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Looking for some help brewing Atraxa, Friendship's Voice - Group Hug
    Yeah, not entirely convinced that those two are what I'd want to be doing. It's pretty slow burn, and really requires a deck dedicated around them. I know how powerful they are because I already play them in an Atraxa build. Giving your opponents loads of good stuff and then slowly taking it away isn't going to be winning strategy here, though.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Looking for some help brewing Atraxa, Friendship's Voice - Group Hug
    Those are great suggestions! Thanks for helping. I'll keep brewing, now that I've got a laptop again, and post up a decklist when I've got one!
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Looking for some help brewing Atraxa, Friendship's Voice - Group Hug
    So, I guess this is more of a topdown design (mostly, I like puns and I want a funny Atraxa build to balance my Spiky build of her).

    I have a bit of an idea about where I want to go with this. I want the ability to bestow +1/+1 counters on all creatures (i.e. Orzhov Advokist, Evolutionary Escalation), then try and politics the table by buffing creatures. Buffing my own creatures at the same time to ensure that I won't fall too far behind.

    Other than that, can anyone else think of some good ways to use/abuse counters in a group hug capacity? I've never played it before and want to do something other than "everyone gets cards all the time and all the mana they could ever use."

    I'm also looking into this card as it fits both themes and demands an answer if someone really wants to win the game: Divine Intervention

    Suggestions so far:

    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Ruination / Back to Basics / nonbasic hate in the age of 4 color commanders
    Quote from Jusstice »
    Quote from Phone »
    Quote from Jusstice »

    Fact, you can't cast Dismiss and Damnation from the same 4x Basic lands. Fact, if you have 15x sources of each color (about 20x duals out of 40 land), then you have about a 20% chance per color to not make that color in 10 cards. With the full 10x of each basic, your chance of not making a single color goes up to about 35%.


    Fact, you can run artifact mana fixing. Signets, Chromatic Lantern, Prismatic Omen, and others all help to keep decks running fine. Fact, fetchlands can fetch out dual lands. That means that your list is going to be much for consistent than what you're talking about. Also, you did nothing to show us that those numbers aren't pulled out of your ass.


    Take 40 total mana sources then if you run signets. 34 Land, 6 signets. Or however much of Chromatic Lantern, Relic, Darksteel Ingot, tutors thereof, etc, that you want. Really, pick a number. The math doesn’t change for as many mana sources that you have as much as it does for the fact that you are running 4-colors and have 4 concurrent changes to miss any of them.

    Here is the math though for 15 mana sources of a given color, algebra teacher style:

    85/99, 84/98, 83/97…75/89, so on, that is the descending chances for any given card to not be a mana source of the given color. Take the product for the sequence that includes a number of terms equal to the number of cards drawn. That’s the chance you’re not drawing a given color, X cards into your deck.

    Chances of not drawing any single one your colors (color screw) is the inverse of that result for each of your colors, all multiplied together. With 4-colors, you only get up to about 2/3 chance to not be color-screwed after 10 cards when you get up to about 20 sources of each color.

    And to even get that high, essentially all of your lands have to be 2 or more colors, assuming 36 land, because only about 3-4 playable lands in Magic are 5-color, 9 fetches, and the rest only have 2 color. So half of the remaining 24 or so land will always lack for one half of your colors. So, you have 5 slots for basics for each color to have 20 sources among your lands.

    TL;DR version, it might “work”, but it certainly does suck. You will either be blown out when nbl hate is played, or you will be dealing with early color screw during a huge portion of regular games. Pick your poison.


    I get what you're saying, but to a list running 10 fetches and accompanying duals, you're not running 4-5 rainbow sources - you're running ~ 15. It's not a matter of missing lands, it's a matter of pairing your fetches with what you've drawn naturally. That works together with cards like Chromatic Lantern, Prismatic Omen, and Darksteel Ingot (and others) to give you a much better chance of avoiding colour screw. The fact of the matter is that The cards that help you prevent colour screw also help soften the blow of MLD. I play a lot more artifacts (mostly rainbow) in Atraxa. Even some Enchantments, and a creature or two. Diversifying into multiple permanent types that provide mana will lower the impact of NBL hate. And to boot, most of these cards will produce any colour. You're pairing your mana base with these rainbow producers to ensure you've still got mana enough to play the game with after a Ruination and they often fix your colours too.

    Thanks by the way for breaking that down.

    Quote from Phone »

    Secondly, if you're in the type of meta where nothing happens till after turn 4 you're given the kind of time to set up these redundant mana fixing methods without getting killed.

    I play in the type of meta you just described. You have no idea what you're saying. Stop talking out your ass about this.


    Quote from Jusstice »

    Ok, I’ll take you at your word. So in your words, why are you playing stuff like Ruination then? Just trying to understand the mentality of people who play 4-color and don’t mind NBL hate.


    I'm not sure I understand the question. I don't play Ruination in decks with 4 colours, but I let me opponents do so. Like I said, by giving up a bit in the power department, you can gain a lot in the resilience department. For the most part, I've seen 4/5 colour decks be able to compensate for losing the extra slots to mana fixing.

    Quote from Jusstice »

    Quote from Phone »
    Quote from Jusstice »

    On that point too, lay down Ruination/Back to Basics, and most players will be wondering why you think you need to do that versus their Atraxa superfriends deck or their Saskia beatdown. If your answer is something like, hey, you named me with Askia, all is fair game, bro, then I suspect that you are cheating yourself and your group out of the kind of games you want to have.


    This statement assumes that you're not talking to the people in your playgroup before hand. That's not the fault of an inanimate piece of cardboard, it's your fault.


    Or, it’s because you’re playing a game in public and don’t have the wherewithal to clear every card in your deck with them before you sit down. In my experience, all kinds of people play the most recent product. Most people don’t like anything that disrupts their mana flow, and most people also don’t like hate cards that work because of the specific color or colors that their deck happens to be.


    This is no different than any public game of Commander. It's relative, and I've had people blow up about playing a Wrath of God. You're right. We can't go into each detail. That's not how the banlist or format are being managed though. It's generally assumed that most playgroups are closed. It's not a NBL-specific issue, you'll run into friction in any group.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Ruination / Back to Basics / nonbasic hate in the age of 4 color commanders
    Quote from Jusstice »

    Am I the only dissenting voice here?


    Yes.

    Quote from Jusstice »

    Fact, you can't cast Dismiss and Damnation from the same 4x Basic lands. Fact, if you have 15x sources of each color (about 20x duals out of 40 land), then you have about a 20% chance per color to not make that color in 10 cards. With the full 10x of each basic, your chance of not making a single color goes up to about 35%.


    Fact, you can run artifact mana fixing. Signets, Chromatic Lantern, Prismatic Omen, and others all help to keep decks running fine. Fact, fetchlands can fetch out dual lands. That means that your list is going to be much for consistent than what you're talking about. Also, you did nothing to show us that those numbers aren't pulled out of your ass.

    Quote from Jusstice »

    Sorry, the most anecdotal evidence I hear that this isn’t a problem as long as you run enough Rampant Growth, the more I will just categorize those statements as coming from the kind of group that does nothing before Turn 4. And as I said, this group has about zero overlap with the groups that are ok with disruption like this.


    If that's the only anecdotal evidence you're hearing then you aren't listening to a thing that's been said in this thread. There are artifacts, enchantments, and creatures with all help to fix mana. Along with this like Farseek and Cultivate. None of those give a **** about Ruination.

    Secondly, if you're in the type of meta where nothing happens till after turn 4 you're given the kind of time to set up these redundant mana fixing methods without getting killed.

    I play in the type of meta you just described. You have no idea what you're saying. Stop talking out your ass about this.

    Quote from Jusstice »

    On that point too, lay down Ruination/Back to Basics, and most players will be wondering why you think you need to do that versus their Atraxa superfriends deck or their Saskia beatdown. If your answer is something like, hey, you named me with Askia, all is fair game, bro, then I suspect that you are cheating yourself and your group out of the kind of games you want to have.


    This statement assumes that you're not talking to the people in your playgroup before hand. That's not the fault of an inanimate piece of cardboard, it's your fault.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on CoCo Elemental / Thunder and Lightning
    Look into something like Wild Defiance, would be my suggestion.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
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