Unsettled Mariner
WU
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type.)
Whenever you or a permanent you control becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter that spell or ability unless its controller pays 1.
pretty interesting tribal addition if you ask me. humans, spirits, and merfolk come to mind.
edit: joking aside, this being a side door back door disruptive piece available to any tribe is interesting. like merfolk going into UW, which was something seen a while back.
Another hate on storm
Tusker is always nice to see, makes the only modern edh variants really cheer on it. wonder if wilderness rec can use tusker as a "ramp".
how does tusker with wilderness rec accelerate mana?
I'll be starting my testing with 4 FoN. I'm not sure exactly what the deck looks like, but I'm pretty sure FoN is a 4-of since its most powerful in the early game when we are normally having trouble keeping up due to being reactive and having lots of taplands. Redundant copies also pitch to themselves are actually castable in the late game anyways.
The structure of the deck post MH1 is in flux in my mind because of Narset though, not because of FoN; FoN makes you want to play high numbers of JTMS, but Narset makes you want to play less JTMS.
yeah even with as much scorn as mh1 has gotten, im not entirely sure what UW control will end up looking like. the build is in flux for the most part thanks to WAR, and now we have to add in FoN (i do think its a card you main-deck in some numbers, then side out) and the archmage charm if possible. truly an embarrassment of riches for this archetype compared to like 1.5-2 years ago.
like im not sure where the 3 cmc walkers fit into the equation when we are getting a 3 mana negate (hardcast) AND a 3 mana swiss army counterspell. even remand starts to look appealing paired with the charm.
ill probably start with a 'hedge' build that jams as much as possible, then tune it down after playing some and particularly when better deckbuilders than myself start posting results. that or just fool around with some jeskai (geist/queller stuff with FoN), grixis midrange (kess!), or esper (new orzhov command) lists till the dust settles.
just realized grindstone is still in the race. cmon i need this for no other reason than to spike my single masterpiece copy that i impulse bought for 25 bucks!
From the list, Snuff Out and Gempalm Incinerator stick out to me as the most likely to be in the set. The latter works with both the goblin and cycling themes, while the former is probably safer than Dismember since you need to be running black to cast it.
Wouldn’t snuff out end dismembers reign of strength in modern
Since snuff can be cast for 4 life and 0 rather than 4 life and 1
nah. dismember is useful to many decks that cant play typical removal (along with deaths shadow decks). snuff out also only hits non-black creatures
i dunno, stepping back and looking at the spoilers which are a good portion of the way done, i think its just perception making the commander cards stick out. edh encompasses a huge swath of players with a wide spectrum of competitiveness. unless its cedh, which is a small minority, its not as if there is a 'meta' or anything. cards are accepted as better or worse, but its not as strict as modern card evaluation. so splashy mythics of major characters, meme bear queens, enemy talismans, 5color super-tribal commander, etc; all that stuff is accepted with open arms.
for modern we are much more critical of the cards. the two things that stand out to me isnt that there werent enough things aimed at the modern format. rather its that we are getting a bunch of new designs which are largely unknowns as shown by countless examples of the community's inability to evaluate cards. this is in place of what many, myself included, expected would be the multitude of old reprints discussed and analyzed over the last few months that i believe seemed easy inclusions and within the strike zone of not disturbing the format too much, but still impactful. then to top things off the product has a 'premium' price tag, so any disappointments or unrealized expectations are magnified.
for anyone thinking horizons would just flip the format on its head with a bunch of high powered legacy cards...well that is on them; because people have been explaining why that is irrational since the day horizons was announced.
Didn't some right an article where only three archtypes exist...Combo, Control and Aggro.
Anyway I say UR Phoenix is some Combo/Aggro sense it really doesn't play much in the way of controlling elements in the mainboard.
i mean there have been hundreds of articles lol. thats the thing, people get hung up on what a deck is categorized as, id guess because the largely incorrect assumptions driving perception about what requires more or less skill. really though there isnt like some unified theory of magic that is commonly accepted with explicit definitions we can turn to. like people arguing tron is some midrange or control deck, which ive seen come up from time to time. who cares? the deck is obviously doing something very distinct from a deck such as UW control, or something like jund or GW value town; exhibiting play patterns and game plans that can be seen from limited to standard all the way through vintage.
as for UR phoenix, im not sure if youve played the deck but one of its strongest aspects is board control; especially against decks that are soft to bolt, gut shot, and thing in the ice flips. aside from the most explosive draws it has midrange elements
Yeah, having a hand and/or draws that are near perfect makes something degenerate. No *****, who knew. I mean, Affinity (Hardened and regular) can kill you on turn 3 and in extreme cases turn 2, are they degenerate? Burn can kill you turn 3 and usually you're effectively dead on turn 4. Hell, GDS can kill on turn 3 and also in extreme cases turn 2. I'm not seeing anyone calling the above degenerate...
I've played Phoenix for over 5 months non-stop, those extreme draws are as likely as just spamming cantrips while your thing got pushed/pathed. If you're trying to make an argument at least try and make it based on the average speed of the deck, not on god hands and extreme positive variance.
i think you are (wrongly) applying the negative connotation associated with the word degenerate. its just a label with a vague and mostly implicit definition. unfair, degenerate, linear, proactive, reactive, non-interactive, etc, etc. are just classifications.
UR phoenix, like many top decks now and in the past blurs the lines between macro-archetypes like aggro, combo, and midrange. however it is still doing degenerate things, which becomes most obvious with its most explosive draws. the interactions, such as cheating on mana by getting a bunch of creatures for 'free', do go beyond what i think many would consider the normalized or structured play patterns for the game. context matters of course, as some things are more or less broken, unfair, degenerate, or whatever you want to call it depending on whats going on around it; however im not sure many besides yourself would balk at using such terms to describe whats going on in UR phoenix.
like hardened scales? yeah id call some of the crazy things it can put together unfair, with the subset of the craziest stuff as degenerate. burn on the other hand, its very linear in its axis of attack, but its just machine gunning spells by hardcasting them; which isnt any more 'unfair' or 'degenerate' than the same strategy seen in standard.
at the end of the day though, it really doesnt matter what you call the decks as long as there is mutual understanding happening when talking about them. we can understand that a deck like dredge, or to a smaller extent phoenix, are just fundamentally different than a zoo beatdown deck.
Disrupting Shoal is way better than Force of Negation if you intend to run Monastery Mentor. By the way: I already explored the idea, (UW Mentor), two years ago, and I simply decided that even a protected Mentor wasn't worth the effort. But, maybe, the fact that the metagame changed could make me change my mind. Who knows.
EDIT
That's what I was testing some weeks ago, maybe it can be useful:
could probably make a few cuts to that and just play UW delver. no idea if its a good deck, but i cant imagine it being much worse.
as for monastery mentor, its always seemed like one of those cards where 'its just a matter of time'. im not sure if that time is now, even with FoN. the card is just a different animal in legacy (and presumably vintage), especially with SDT to repeatedly dump mana into and make a massive boardstate. FoN is a really big question mark for me atm, so its one of those things where ill (and i expect the majority of the community) will have to play with for a while to make an informed opinion on it.
on another note, ive been eyeballing on thin ice for use as additional removal in UW while just swapping in snow basics. im kinda torn because if its good, yeah thatd be cool, but at the same time...i really like being able to customize what basic lands i play lol.
Yeah, Echo of Eons looks breakable to me. Any good ways to discard this card in UR Storm? Does UR Phoenix play for the long game too much to want this card? Does Narset Pitch Blue want this card?
Oh yeah, I'm surprisingly not excited about the Onslaught cycling lands. They're great with Life from the Loam and likely Wrenn and Six, and I'm sure they'll do things for Cycling Matters cards like Astral Drift, but it seems that all the low-land decks want cantrip lands like Fiery Islet instead. Notably, Dredge does not have the deck space for them, and these don't colour fix well enough for control decks.
id think that narset pitch deck would want the new timetwister for sure.
as for the ONS cycle lands, i dont think they will show up anywhere at the onset. it might take months, or maybe even years. however i like that wizards just got them into the format, even if its to facilitate something down the line.
Yeah, my main issue with Pool is it literally reads as useless without T3feri. At least Mycosynth Lattice only eats up a sideboard slot. I can't imagine it being anything but a dead card without the other half of the combo.
it does make me wonder why UW couldnt just run like 1 copy of the new karn. its not like you need to dedicate the whole sideboard to it, just have like an EE, cage/crypt, and a lattice. both the blue and white gearhulks aint bad either.
seems like UW is already supporting like 500 planeswalkers, whats 1 more right? lol
I mean, sure, if you ignore UWx Control, GBx, GDS, Humans, Spirits, Affinity (Hardened and not), Storm etc.
For my money, aka "If I'm told I can win a million dollars in one tournament" kind of money.
Are you going to pick GBx, GDS, Humans, Spirits, Affinity (Frenzy/Hardened) or Storm, even Tron? For a million?
Or are you going to pick.
UW, Dredge, Phoenix?
Based on what I saw at the last SCG, and the last (checks notes) what 8 months? You pick Dredge or Phoenix or maybe UW.
im assuming you are implying 'all other things being equal' (such as skill or the field). i think most of that list is close enough in power level where the experience and reps makes a noticeable difference.
like i remember you acknowledging a few months back how underrated GDS is, because of how streamlined/efficient/powerful the deck is. it falls in and out of favor, but is it really a less powerful deck in the abstract? the same goes for other decks such as humans, infect, or amulet titan for instance.
yeah this definitely disappointing, though im grateful for years of service from everyone in the background supporting this site through thick and thin.
something being in the works to carry on the soul of mtgsalv is heartening, and i would definitely join when and if it ever comes to fruition. as others mentioned a base of a traditionally styled forum would be great, and it doesnt need to be fancy or anything out the gates (im assuming some content-management-system is planned to be used). i dont think any social media integration is warranted (id personally prefer none). card linking functionality is needed of course.
it may also be helpful to establish continuity of the content from here, even with something as simple as linking the end of threads to new ones established at the new site. no reason not to leverage ongoing user generated content to set the tone of the new location as an information hub (mtgsalv is still going to dominate search algorithms for years to come). i havent looked too much into what discord offers in terms of integration plugins, but i think itd be neat to have a balance of 'chat' functionality and more comprehensive forum threads at some future point after things are established.
also dont forget (or feel bad about) asking for donations, and having links set up to take them. im not averse to chipping in what little i can from time to time, and optional crowdfunding can be a powerful tool.
I know it may seem a little dumb or out of place but I like to have that "miracle" when things get a little more dire. I know it's highly inconsistent and it's actually a nonbo with Narset but I have a special feeling for Terminus. I suspect that Day of Judgment is the way to go but having a board wipe that is clean and doesn't trigger "die" effects besides the Settle feels good.
Knowledge Pool? Care to explain? Literally just for the Littleferi combo? Seems like 6 mana is a bit much for our version of Karn Lattice.
This is to combo with the T3feri. I know it's a bit too cute but it feels really good against Tron and Control decks as well. It does little in many matchups but being 1of in the main rarely impacts at all. I put it in on the 3rd Jace's spot and looking back I never missed Jace when I drew it. Besides it has made me win a lot of matches against Tron that would be otherwise unwinnable.
what did you think, if anything, about the mana base? like did you do any iterating on it, or just choose what 'seemed good' and just ran with it for a while? also, did the 2 blast zone / 3 field split play well? (especially interested on blast zones performance)
been muckin around with GDS and elves the last few weeks, jeskai is in a somewhat dubious spot, so i figured id start making the adjustments to UW super-friendly control, while also preparing for additions from horizons. the 3 mana UUU charm might require some adjustments to the mana base, and its also plausible that moving to snow basics for 1-2 copies of on thin ice will be beneficial. im thinking cutting one or both of the glacial fortresses for the new prismatic fetch (blue fetch works too, but more lands that can get oncolor basics is worth looking into). i also dont think a full set of colonnades is required in UWx anymore, so maybe dropping 1 or 2 for an island.
as for the knowledge pool lock. i can get on board with the reasoning of having a powerful game-closing lock to draw to at the expense of a single slot. kinda the same thing with the singleton terminus, an idea which i also toyed with a few weeks back; for such cards the inclusion of the first copy is by far the most impactful since it gives an entirely new axis that otherwise didnt exist. my only question is: did you ever just cast the card without baby teferi? the card reads like butt, so id be interested in first hand knowledge on what it does to games by itself.
WU
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type.)
Whenever you or a permanent you control becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter that spell or ability unless its controller pays 1.
pretty interesting tribal addition if you ask me. humans, spirits, and merfolk come to mind.
edit: joking aside, this being a side door back door disruptive piece available to any tribe is interesting. like merfolk going into UW, which was something seen a while back.
like im not sure where the 3 cmc walkers fit into the equation when we are getting a 3 mana negate (hardcast) AND a 3 mana swiss army counterspell. even remand starts to look appealing paired with the charm.
ill probably start with a 'hedge' build that jams as much as possible, then tune it down after playing some and particularly when better deckbuilders than myself start posting results. that or just fool around with some jeskai (geist/queller stuff with FoN), grixis midrange (kess!), or esper (new orzhov command) lists till the dust settles.
(/s)
for modern we are much more critical of the cards. the two things that stand out to me isnt that there werent enough things aimed at the modern format. rather its that we are getting a bunch of new designs which are largely unknowns as shown by countless examples of the community's inability to evaluate cards. this is in place of what many, myself included, expected would be the multitude of old reprints discussed and analyzed over the last few months that i believe seemed easy inclusions and within the strike zone of not disturbing the format too much, but still impactful. then to top things off the product has a 'premium' price tag, so any disappointments or unrealized expectations are magnified.
for anyone thinking horizons would just flip the format on its head with a bunch of high powered legacy cards...well that is on them; because people have been explaining why that is irrational since the day horizons was announced.
as for UR phoenix, im not sure if youve played the deck but one of its strongest aspects is board control; especially against decks that are soft to bolt, gut shot, and thing in the ice flips. aside from the most explosive draws it has midrange elements
UR phoenix, like many top decks now and in the past blurs the lines between macro-archetypes like aggro, combo, and midrange. however it is still doing degenerate things, which becomes most obvious with its most explosive draws. the interactions, such as cheating on mana by getting a bunch of creatures for 'free', do go beyond what i think many would consider the normalized or structured play patterns for the game. context matters of course, as some things are more or less broken, unfair, degenerate, or whatever you want to call it depending on whats going on around it; however im not sure many besides yourself would balk at using such terms to describe whats going on in UR phoenix.
like hardened scales? yeah id call some of the crazy things it can put together unfair, with the subset of the craziest stuff as degenerate. burn on the other hand, its very linear in its axis of attack, but its just machine gunning spells by hardcasting them; which isnt any more 'unfair' or 'degenerate' than the same strategy seen in standard.
at the end of the day though, it really doesnt matter what you call the decks as long as there is mutual understanding happening when talking about them. we can understand that a deck like dredge, or to a smaller extent phoenix, are just fundamentally different than a zoo beatdown deck.
could probably make a few cuts to that and just play UW delver. no idea if its a good deck, but i cant imagine it being much worse.
as for monastery mentor, its always seemed like one of those cards where 'its just a matter of time'. im not sure if that time is now, even with FoN. the card is just a different animal in legacy (and presumably vintage), especially with SDT to repeatedly dump mana into and make a massive boardstate. FoN is a really big question mark for me atm, so its one of those things where ill (and i expect the majority of the community) will have to play with for a while to make an informed opinion on it.
on another note, ive been eyeballing on thin ice for use as additional removal in UW while just swapping in snow basics. im kinda torn because if its good, yeah thatd be cool, but at the same time...i really like being able to customize what basic lands i play lol.
id think that narset pitch deck would want the new timetwister for sure.
as for the ONS cycle lands, i dont think they will show up anywhere at the onset. it might take months, or maybe even years. however i like that wizards just got them into the format, even if its to facilitate something down the line.
seems like UW is already supporting like 500 planeswalkers, whats 1 more right? lol
like i remember you acknowledging a few months back how underrated GDS is, because of how streamlined/efficient/powerful the deck is. it falls in and out of favor, but is it really a less powerful deck in the abstract? the same goes for other decks such as humans, infect, or amulet titan for instance.
something being in the works to carry on the soul of mtgsalv is heartening, and i would definitely join when and if it ever comes to fruition. as others mentioned a base of a traditionally styled forum would be great, and it doesnt need to be fancy or anything out the gates (im assuming some content-management-system is planned to be used). i dont think any social media integration is warranted (id personally prefer none). card linking functionality is needed of course.
it may also be helpful to establish continuity of the content from here, even with something as simple as linking the end of threads to new ones established at the new site. no reason not to leverage ongoing user generated content to set the tone of the new location as an information hub (mtgsalv is still going to dominate search algorithms for years to come). i havent looked too much into what discord offers in terms of integration plugins, but i think itd be neat to have a balance of 'chat' functionality and more comprehensive forum threads at some future point after things are established.
also dont forget (or feel bad about) asking for donations, and having links set up to take them. im not averse to chipping in what little i can from time to time, and optional crowdfunding can be a powerful tool.
cheers~
been muckin around with GDS and elves the last few weeks, jeskai is in a somewhat dubious spot, so i figured id start making the adjustments to UW super-friendly control, while also preparing for additions from horizons. the 3 mana UUU charm might require some adjustments to the mana base, and its also plausible that moving to snow basics for 1-2 copies of on thin ice will be beneficial. im thinking cutting one or both of the glacial fortresses for the new prismatic fetch (blue fetch works too, but more lands that can get oncolor basics is worth looking into). i also dont think a full set of colonnades is required in UWx anymore, so maybe dropping 1 or 2 for an island.
as for the knowledge pool lock. i can get on board with the reasoning of having a powerful game-closing lock to draw to at the expense of a single slot. kinda the same thing with the singleton terminus, an idea which i also toyed with a few weeks back; for such cards the inclusion of the first copy is by far the most impactful since it gives an entirely new axis that otherwise didnt exist. my only question is: did you ever just cast the card without baby teferi? the card reads like butt, so id be interested in first hand knowledge on what it does to games by itself.