Same here, pulling this in as another side deck as I have everything except for Caverns (fingers crossed for an eternal masters reprint...). The deck looked very solid on stream and I loved how streamlined and smooth the build looked.
Definitely hoping for Cavern, as for Liliana, I think she has a good shot to be in the set. Unfortunately, it will be at Mythic so get her while the set is out as the price will jump right back up to where it is now in no time I am sure.
Yeah, this new meta is making it really hard to justify any bans or unbans, this thread may just get a bit more boring for a while (not that that is a bad thing, in fact the recent changes to the format have brought me back to modern).
Ad Nauseam is just the best non interactive combo deck ever in Modern to me. It's been love and all since a year when I picked up the deck and always was glad with my results and results in Pro Tour (Jarred Boettcher 9th at Born of the Gods and Daniel Grafensteiner 7-2 at last Pro Tour), GPs (Darien Elderfield Top 4 in GP Charlotte 2015, Jon Benavides trial winner at GP Oklahoma City 2015, Troy Willmer trial winner at GP Detroit 2016), SCG Opens (Bill Raggle Top 16 at an IQ in Cleveland, Garrak Matheson 26th at SCG Open Charlotte 2015 and Nycholas Bird at the SCG Open in January) and States (Jonathan Benson taking down Colubums).
The deck is such a great deck : you sit by yourself, play cantrips for digging and placing mana rocks on the table while sculpting your hand and comboing in response to lethal damage. No interactions at all, I just love it. You have to love that and I know that the vast majority of player don't like it, but it's none of my business what players like or not. All I can say it that I love it
This really made me laugh out loud reading it. Cheers to you.
really liking the bant eldrazi deck. very clean list, lots of 4-ofs.
not sure i'd play it myself (currently back on the competitive scapeshift train), but it's a cool deck no doubt.
I'm really liking this deck as well and have the cards to sleeve it up in paper without spending more than $100 on cards I don't have, contemplating giving it a try. It seems very consistent and like it has inevitability on its side. It also seems like it has complex enough sequencing without being so bad as to fatigue the pilot during longer tournaments.
It's definitely a very cool list, love the flavor of cards like drowner as well.
I think it's safe to say Nahiri is quickly proving to be one of the better modern planeswalkers. Sure, she might not be Liliana of the Veil, but that comparison is hardly fair as many would argue that Lili is the one of the top planeswalkers ever printed next to Jace the Mind Sculptor (which of course isn't even modern legal). Any planes walker has to have the right synergy with their deck to be effective, look at Liliana in BGx shells for example. However, unlike other walkers Nahiri has a lot more general utility and isn't as contingent on a specific gameplan compared to many other walkers out there.
What she has going for her:
1. Easily played in any shell that contains RW
2. High starting loyalty and her + is a +2 which gives her 6 loyalty the turn she drops!
3. Quick ultimate
4. An ultimate that ends games
6. Your opponent must put pressure off of you and deal with her or risks losing the game if they don't during their next two turns. Even if they throw burn and creatures at her she will gain you card advantage most likely.
7. Her "I win" button requires you to invest a whole one additional card slot in your deck besides however many copies of her you play. She is essentially a compact combo that provides card filtering and a way to remove problem cards mainboard such as enchantments (something many decks have to sideboard for to deal with effectively).
8. Her + helps you filter cards and gain more relevant answers to disrupt your opponents game plan or protect her.
She is almost always relevant to the game state regardless of which of her abilities you are using, she is a must answer threat that forces your opponent to shift their focus and resources to deal with her or risk losing the game and she ends games quickly if ignored. I wasn't sure about her at first, but the more I look at her abilities and test with her the better she seems. If you need her, buy her now because I would bet she is going to be $50+ very soon (this weekend even if she sees camera time and ends up on some top 8 lists).
yeah this deck is never beating collected company. Ever. Lets just put that out there. Our cards match up disgustingly poorly against their deck. Grafdigger's Cage is the best card against it. It stops cocos, chords and persist triggers, and even then it kind of hurts us too. I´d like to try to find a way to beat the deck post sideboard, but maybe it´s best to have an "oh i lost before the die roll" match. I guess there is also flaying tendrils That kind of gives me some hope
I haven't played the matchup much, so I can't speak to it other than theory, but it seems like playing the role of the control deck and boarding in as many sweepers as you can is the best hope of winning, followed by gifts for Elesh Norn. Reminds me a lot of the pod matchup when I used to play all the time, and that was usually my best game plan against them, but the matchup was still probably a 40/60 at best it felt like.
Is there ever a reason to run four blood moon in this deck?
I recently picked up RUG Delver, but like the commonality between the two decks and I can basically convert most of those cards over to RUG moon and have a second deck choice. Huntmaster and Blood Moon are also two of my favorite cards in Modern. I played Blue Moon for a while but didn't like how light on creature threats the deck was, this looks to solve some of those problems and add additional flexibility due to the green splash for Goyf, Huntmaster, Ooze, etc.
Also, I realize this is developing competitive, but I don't see much of a presence of this deck online surprisingly. Any insight as to why that is or is it just a fairly new development of a deck?
Edit: Lastly, has anyone considered running a copy of Godo, Bandit Warlord alongside batterskull in the sideboard? I've gone as far as to consider a gifts package in a RUG Moon list for a finisher package once the board is controlled.
Sorry, my plan and the SB I linked are not in sync. I changed the SB today. My plan is a few weeks old. lol Yes, obviously cage would be in. Im play RUG moon as well, and I destroyed coco yesterday with cage on the field.
Slightly off topic, but how has RUG moon been playing/doing for you overall? I love the color combinations (which is what drew me to Monkey Grow), but the colors just don't feel as strong when it comes to the midrange game when compared to BGx type decks.
Not necessarily an "all-time" high. I agree it's fairly high, but if we get multiple copies doing well, especially on camera, this weekend then it can go even higher.
I agree with this statement, if she continues to put up numbers I full expect her to go up to $50.
She is becoming a staple in several modern decks and definitely has the potential to push Jeskai into Tier 1 as has been said earlier. I'm excited to see the next few big events and what decks appear in the top 32/top 8.
Ok, I'll bite (I just picked the first of a few generated random hands with a deck building tool, these are the first four I got). For this one, we will assume it is in the dark on either the draw or play:
Hand1 (start with an easy one I guess): Island, Island, Misty Rainforest, Thought Scour, Delver, Tarmogoyf, Monkey
My thoughts: No real counter magic but plenty of threats and a scour to get the monkey out early and grow goyf. Definite keep. I would probably play delver turn 1 and then scour + monkey turn 2 while hoping to draw into some shoals or stubborn denial for protection. This one seems easy to me and I'm not sure of any cases where I would mull it, even if I knew what I was playing against regardless of if I was on the draw or the play.
Hand2: Scalding Tarn, Forest, Shoal, Shoal, Serum Visions, Thought Scour, Gitaxian Probe
My thoughts: No early threat, but we've got two lands (ideal) and plenty of card digging to find a threat plus shoal backup to protect it. Definite Keep on the play or draw, trying to think of when I wouldn't keep this, perhaps mull if playing against control and on the draw? Even then, shoal should help protect a turn 2-3 threat from being countered.
Hand 3: Wooded Foothills, Misty, Misty, Tarfire, Simic Charm, Gitaxian Probe, Shoal.
My thoughts: I might mull this unless I knew I was playing against a slower deck that would give me more time to set up. Plenty of land but no threat and only one cantrip. I feel like I would run out of gas fairly quickly with this hand if I had one or two bad draws in the following turns. I might keep it on the play and mull on the draw, not sure if that is right though.
Hand 4: Steam Vents, Delver, Delver, Shoal, Tarfire, Monkey, Goyf.
My thoughts: I really want to keep this hand, but it is perhaps too risky. Snap mull on the play and some thinking before I mull on the draw. One land, can play delver turn 1 and turn 2 tar fire or delver, but nothing to pitch to shoal then and goyf and monkey are stuck in my hand. If the shoal or tarfire were a serum visions instead I would probably keep this, but otherwise the risk of not being able to play magic for the rest of the game due to missing lands seems too high.
This is something I've played with over the years as well, as I love the BUG color combo. The big problem I see is in black/green colors you typically want to play a tap out style game plan which doesn't always have good synergy with counters/reactive style of control. Liliana + holding counters in your hand just doesn't jive. It could also mean that Liliana and similar cards just don't belong in the deck to begin with.
Overall people gravitate towards white and red instead of blue as they provide better options and have been more thoroughly tested.
Lots of counters and other options as well and even Ashiok and Jace on the planeswalker side.
Most of my lists have ended up being BGu with a light blue splash for a few key cards. I think the main issue is the deck doesn't have the full set of tools yet that have the synergies in blue to fit into the usual BG shell, or more likely the deck just isn't being built correctly due to insufficient testing.
I've gone through another 20-30 hands and it's starting to make a bit more sense, you've got to have faith in your spells ability to set you up and filter for what you need as we are really good at doing this. I've got to say, scour is so important for getting out an early monkey I'm thinking of going up to four for one of my flex spots, it's just that good. I'll be doing some competitive playtesting with some friends this Saturday and am going to try to go to my first local Sunday night modern event this coming weekend with the deck. I imagine it will be rough, but no better way to learn than to throw myself into the fire so to speak. I'll let you guys know what I learn and how I do.
Mana leak also feels really awkward at times and really makes me want Remand to better filter for threats and land, however I am fairly certain that card is a trap for this deck. Earlier reading in this thread seems to confirm this and I have a feeling I'll change my mind on this after more testing.
Also, I can't end without at least one bad and/or crazy idea, here was a card I thought of today that I found myself wanting a couple times today while testing. A misers copy of noxious revival to set up guaranteed delver flips later in the game while getting a spell I need, putting a threat back on my library when I need one or pulling anything I need that I put into my yard with thought scour later in the game. We have so much card draw and the spell can be cast for free (at the cost of life) that it seems like a quick and easy way to set up a guaranteed draw of a specific card. It could also be used in the fringe case of setting up the opponent for a terrible top deck when hellbent or close to hellbent later in the game. It's probably too cute, but I see a lot of synergy for that card and I played it in 4C gifts to great use.
A great card and quality common for the set for sure.
Same here, pulling this in as another side deck as I have everything except for Caverns (fingers crossed for an eternal masters reprint...). The deck looked very solid on stream and I loved how streamlined and smooth the build looked.
This really made me laugh out loud reading it. Cheers to you.
I'm really liking this deck as well and have the cards to sleeve it up in paper without spending more than $100 on cards I don't have, contemplating giving it a try. It seems very consistent and like it has inevitability on its side. It also seems like it has complex enough sequencing without being so bad as to fatigue the pilot during longer tournaments.
It's definitely a very cool list, love the flavor of cards like drowner as well.
What she has going for her:
1. Easily played in any shell that contains RW
2. High starting loyalty and her + is a +2 which gives her 6 loyalty the turn she drops!
3. Quick ultimate
4. An ultimate that ends games
6. Your opponent must put pressure off of you and deal with her or risks losing the game if they don't during their next two turns. Even if they throw burn and creatures at her she will gain you card advantage most likely.
7. Her "I win" button requires you to invest a whole one additional card slot in your deck besides however many copies of her you play. She is essentially a compact combo that provides card filtering and a way to remove problem cards mainboard such as enchantments (something many decks have to sideboard for to deal with effectively).
8. Her + helps you filter cards and gain more relevant answers to disrupt your opponents game plan or protect her.
She is almost always relevant to the game state regardless of which of her abilities you are using, she is a must answer threat that forces your opponent to shift their focus and resources to deal with her or risk losing the game and she ends games quickly if ignored. I wasn't sure about her at first, but the more I look at her abilities and test with her the better she seems. If you need her, buy her now because I would bet she is going to be $50+ very soon (this weekend even if she sees camera time and ends up on some top 8 lists).
I haven't played the matchup much, so I can't speak to it other than theory, but it seems like playing the role of the control deck and boarding in as many sweepers as you can is the best hope of winning, followed by gifts for Elesh Norn. Reminds me a lot of the pod matchup when I used to play all the time, and that was usually my best game plan against them, but the matchup was still probably a 40/60 at best it felt like.
I recently picked up RUG Delver, but like the commonality between the two decks and I can basically convert most of those cards over to RUG moon and have a second deck choice. Huntmaster and Blood Moon are also two of my favorite cards in Modern. I played Blue Moon for a while but didn't like how light on creature threats the deck was, this looks to solve some of those problems and add additional flexibility due to the green splash for Goyf, Huntmaster, Ooze, etc.
Also, I realize this is developing competitive, but I don't see much of a presence of this deck online surprisingly. Any insight as to why that is or is it just a fairly new development of a deck?
Edit: Lastly, has anyone considered running a copy of Godo, Bandit Warlord alongside batterskull in the sideboard? I've gone as far as to consider a gifts package in a RUG Moon list for a finisher package once the board is controlled.
Slightly off topic, but how has RUG moon been playing/doing for you overall? I love the color combinations (which is what drew me to Monkey Grow), but the colors just don't feel as strong when it comes to the midrange game when compared to BGx type decks.
I agree with this statement, if she continues to put up numbers I full expect her to go up to $50.
She is becoming a staple in several modern decks and definitely has the potential to push Jeskai into Tier 1 as has been said earlier. I'm excited to see the next few big events and what decks appear in the top 32/top 8.
Hand1 (start with an easy one I guess): Island, Island, Misty Rainforest, Thought Scour, Delver, Tarmogoyf, Monkey
My thoughts: No real counter magic but plenty of threats and a scour to get the monkey out early and grow goyf. Definite keep. I would probably play delver turn 1 and then scour + monkey turn 2 while hoping to draw into some shoals or stubborn denial for protection. This one seems easy to me and I'm not sure of any cases where I would mull it, even if I knew what I was playing against regardless of if I was on the draw or the play.
Hand2: Scalding Tarn, Forest, Shoal, Shoal, Serum Visions, Thought Scour, Gitaxian Probe
My thoughts: No early threat, but we've got two lands (ideal) and plenty of card digging to find a threat plus shoal backup to protect it. Definite Keep on the play or draw, trying to think of when I wouldn't keep this, perhaps mull if playing against control and on the draw? Even then, shoal should help protect a turn 2-3 threat from being countered.
Hand 3: Wooded Foothills, Misty, Misty, Tarfire, Simic Charm, Gitaxian Probe, Shoal.
My thoughts: I might mull this unless I knew I was playing against a slower deck that would give me more time to set up. Plenty of land but no threat and only one cantrip. I feel like I would run out of gas fairly quickly with this hand if I had one or two bad draws in the following turns. I might keep it on the play and mull on the draw, not sure if that is right though.
Hand 4: Steam Vents, Delver, Delver, Shoal, Tarfire, Monkey, Goyf.
My thoughts: I really want to keep this hand, but it is perhaps too risky. Snap mull on the play and some thinking before I mull on the draw. One land, can play delver turn 1 and turn 2 tar fire or delver, but nothing to pitch to shoal then and goyf and monkey are stuck in my hand. If the shoal or tarfire were a serum visions instead I would probably keep this, but otherwise the risk of not being able to play magic for the rest of the game due to missing lands seems too high.
Overall people gravitate towards white and red instead of blue as they provide better options and have been more thoroughly tested.
With that said, I think here is a good starting point for cards to look at in blue/the usual suspects:
Snapcaster Mage
Creeping Tar Pit
Countersquall
Vendillion Clique
Stubborn Denial
Serum Visions
Gifts Ungiven For the ultimate in grind out value piles.
Lots of counters and other options as well and even Ashiok and Jace on the planeswalker side.
Most of my lists have ended up being BGu with a light blue splash for a few key cards. I think the main issue is the deck doesn't have the full set of tools yet that have the synergies in blue to fit into the usual BG shell, or more likely the deck just isn't being built correctly due to insufficient testing.
Here is also a good older primer that might be a good starting point: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/219824-bug-midrange
Mana leak also feels really awkward at times and really makes me want Remand to better filter for threats and land, however I am fairly certain that card is a trap for this deck. Earlier reading in this thread seems to confirm this and I have a feeling I'll change my mind on this after more testing.
Also, I can't end without at least one bad and/or crazy idea, here was a card I thought of today that I found myself wanting a couple times today while testing. A misers copy of noxious revival to set up guaranteed delver flips later in the game while getting a spell I need, putting a threat back on my library when I need one or pulling anything I need that I put into my yard with thought scour later in the game. We have so much card draw and the spell can be cast for free (at the cost of life) that it seems like a quick and easy way to set up a guaranteed draw of a specific card. It could also be used in the fringe case of setting up the opponent for a terrible top deck when hellbent or close to hellbent later in the game. It's probably too cute, but I see a lot of synergy for that card and I played it in 4C gifts to great use.