I don't think this card will see any competitive play and will most likely be in the bulk rare bin post rotation.
It's not that it's a terrible card, it just has far too much to compete with on the creature side green for raw power or utility (plus the additional options in other colors that green will be splashed with).
3 mana for a 3/2 that does nothing until another condition of some sort is met is not where you want to be in modern and is not what you want to be playing on turn 3.
I could see her in a version of Boros Bridge. She could discard multiple Ensnaring Bridges, and Assemble the Legions. She also ticks up super fast, so when the opponent is tapped/locked down she gets out of control fast. With some way to tap your bridge, she can provide a win-condition and way to get past bridge all at once.
I like the thought process here but I think assemble the legions is a bit slow for modern and having to tap your bridge to get rid of it doesn't seem ideal. However, if you're going to go WR, I think you either splash black and go for additional removal and hand disruption to keep the board clear for her or you go with blue and play the control game to keep your opponent from dealing with her for two turns.
In turn, both of the above styles don't depend on her 100% to win and you're essentially playing UWR control or a modern version of Deadguy Ale, which can win on their own if you never draw into her.
Just my two cents, I love brewing too, but I'm not sure assemble the legions would be reliable outside of a more casual environment and having to tap your own bridge seems far too conditional/you now rely on drawing yet another card in addition to having bridge early and protecting her for a few turns. The great thing about Nahiri is she is essentially a combo win-con and all you have to draw is her.
I was thinking about just this today, as I bought a playset of nahiris over the weekend haha!
Weren't there jund decks during the deathrite era that played ajani vengeant (ajundi)? I was serving an LDS mission at the time so I wasn't playing Magic.
Would it be possible for junk/jund to splash her and emrakul? One complaint about these disruptive decks is that they can't close games right? Seems like an easy way to do just that to me.
Potentially, the manabase is very shaky and you'd be shocking yourself a few extra times probably. The Ajundi decks were popular partly due to deathrite shaman which made the mana much more flexible. You'd have to run birds now as a dork but that card is not a good fit and not something I would do.
Regardless, it might be wroth a shot and splashing a few lands to try out, though it's definitely extremely greedy. You'd of course have to remove dark confidants (flip emrakul, take 15! lol), but a more junk build with painful truths might be an option.
Honestly, the combo of 4x nahiri and 1x emrakul is so compact you can drop it into a lot of different decks, so long as they have a way to protect her as she basically reads from your opponents perspective as "deal with me during your next two turns or lose" in most cases.
I picked up a playset myself right before the spike for the same reason.
White has always struck me as the sidekick color. Other than a few decks it isn't good on its own necessarily but it has by far the best sideboard and hate cards for the most part, which in many ways fits with the theme of the color. Could it use some additional "face of the color" type cards like Tarmogoyf is to green, snapcaster is to blue and lightning bolt is to red? Sure, as other than path to exile, there isn't really anything that jumps out in my mind as representing what the color is in a single card, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Paul is playing her in his UWR list today and is now 9-1 with it in dailies. It's performing very well in that shell too. I expect the price to go up again over the next few weeks and spike even harder if it places well in any upcoming paper events.
I sees plenty of play in Kiki Chord and it actually seems that he's the new favour of the deck.
Yup, as mentioned above, Hoagland has been playing it and even took a UWR list running 4x Nahiri and 1X Emrakul to a 5-0 recently. Joe was also plugging the card on his stream for Legacy Miracles and both him and Jeff talked about it at the pro tour as being a sleeper/initially under valued option.
As an added bonus, you can slip in a couple copies of her and an emrakul into most any deck that can protect her and support the colors without watering down your deck. It's a compact combo and as mentioned above fits into Kiki as well.
1. Easy to fit into a variety of decks without watering them now
2. Fairly low/average starting price at mythic
3. Has seen success in Legacy and Modern
4. Desirable for commander
5. It's being talked about by several pros as being undervalued
Easy to see why it is spiking, and I honestly think it will go even higher if it continues to see moderate success, especially at mythic.
As for standard, I'm not sure how much use it is seeing there.
Well twin is gone forever so if that was the reason, shouldn't it come back?
It was the initial reason and the breaking point, but there are plenty of other decks that might overly thrive with P/P back - that's the concern at least.
I would agree with this. Card filtering and draw can be dangerous enablers. I love these sorts of cards in legacy and would welcome them in modern, but despite my bias I think it is risky and potentially harmful so I understand the reason why they probably won't come off the list. The format is very diverse at the moment and appears headed in a healthy direction. I'd love to see them try it out, but I think it will be some time before they do so, if they ever do take them off.
My list is more heavily reliant on Junk colors, but for anyone running heavier esper or UB build a card caught my eye today that seems like it might be quite good in Muddle the mixture. Servers as a counter against spell based decks early and if your against a list running more creatures you can transmute it for stuff like flaying tendrils and the other 1BB -2/-2 all creatures card who's name escapes my recollection at the moment.
Would it kill people to read a couple pages, or run a search on the thread?
To answer your question, yes, people have discussed it in the past several pages.
Thank you, I will check that out. I just had the idea and jumped in to the thread while I had a few minutes free on a quick lunch break, I didn't have time to read further.
All of those turn three situations require setup, multiple cards, a commitment across the deck to making that happen, don't always happen on turn 3 (in most cases) and can easily be disrupted in many stages along the way.
A single card that bolts/counters/draws (choose two) is just that, overpowered, consistently good in most any situation, requires nothing else to set up other than hitting land drops and can't be disrupted other than countering it.
Just my two cents, but multi card engines vs single cards should not be compared. Modern is powerful, yes, but that would be over the top and isn't overly unique as a single card. It further turns UWR into another good stuffs deck that plays four of these cards because it is the best possible option.
"A single card that bolts/counters/draws (choose two) is just that, overpowered"
Actually its counter, bolt, bounce, not draw
compared to kologhans command? which can make you discard,shock a target and get your creature back from the graveyard into your hand?
its a 2 for 1 for 3 mana how is that OP?
or do people still think counter spell is too good for modern?
I misread in that case. Counter/bolt/bounce is much much more reasonable, otherwise it's just a better cryptic command 80% of the time for UWR. I actually think that would be fairly balanced after thinking it through more, card draw is always a risky thing and one of the most powerful things you can do so I always tend to be conservative with it.
I also want counterspell back in modern, I don't think it's too powerful at all.
My only issue tends to be with overly pushed cards as BGx is already goodstuffs.dec and I dislike cards that force people into playing them as they are strictly better than anything else out there. Don't get me wrong, you'll always have powerful stuff that is a cut above the rest of the card pool (lightning bolt, path, tarmogoyf, snap caster, liliana, etc) but I wouldn't want to get to the point where every color combo is just a goodstuffs deck.
I play 4C gifts by the way, I would love to have more counters that are viable and be able to up my blue count.
All of those turn three situations require setup, multiple cards, a commitment across the deck to making that happen, don't always happen on turn 3 (in most cases) and can easily be disrupted in many stages along the way.
A single card that bolts/counters/draws (choose two) is just that, overpowered, consistently good in most any situation, requires nothing else to set up other than hitting land drops and can't be disrupted other than countering it.
Just my two cents, but multi card engines vs single cards should not be compared. Modern is powerful, yes, but that would be over the top and isn't overly unique as a single card. It further turns UWR into another good stuffs deck that plays four of these cards because it is the best possible option.
I've been discussing the card with some friends and I think Nahiri is deceivingly powerful and very easy to ultimate if playing a deck that has a ton of ways to keep the board clean and protect her. She basically reads, "deal with me before two more turns pass or you lose". It's relatively low on the investment of number of cards required to get the combo and it helps us filter our hands to get the answers we need more easily.
I haven't played BWR in years, but I used to play it with Liliana, Souls, Dark Confidant, etc and it always felt like I could control the board but ran out of gas on trying to finish the opponent. You'd have to take out confidant of course and replace with something like painful truths for additional card draw.
Just a thought, probably a bad one, but a thought none the less (UWr is probably the better shell for protecting the combo).
It's not that it's a terrible card, it just has far too much to compete with on the creature side green for raw power or utility (plus the additional options in other colors that green will be splashed with).
3 mana for a 3/2 that does nothing until another condition of some sort is met is not where you want to be in modern and is not what you want to be playing on turn 3.
I like the thought process here but I think assemble the legions is a bit slow for modern and having to tap your bridge to get rid of it doesn't seem ideal. However, if you're going to go WR, I think you either splash black and go for additional removal and hand disruption to keep the board clear for her or you go with blue and play the control game to keep your opponent from dealing with her for two turns.
In turn, both of the above styles don't depend on her 100% to win and you're essentially playing UWR control or a modern version of Deadguy Ale, which can win on their own if you never draw into her.
Just my two cents, I love brewing too, but I'm not sure assemble the legions would be reliable outside of a more casual environment and having to tap your own bridge seems far too conditional/you now rely on drawing yet another card in addition to having bridge early and protecting her for a few turns. The great thing about Nahiri is she is essentially a combo win-con and all you have to draw is her.
Potentially, the manabase is very shaky and you'd be shocking yourself a few extra times probably. The Ajundi decks were popular partly due to deathrite shaman which made the mana much more flexible. You'd have to run birds now as a dork but that card is not a good fit and not something I would do.
Regardless, it might be wroth a shot and splashing a few lands to try out, though it's definitely extremely greedy. You'd of course have to remove dark confidants (flip emrakul, take 15! lol), but a more junk build with painful truths might be an option.
Honestly, the combo of 4x nahiri and 1x emrakul is so compact you can drop it into a lot of different decks, so long as they have a way to protect her as she basically reads from your opponents perspective as "deal with me during your next two turns or lose" in most cases.
I picked up a playset myself right before the spike for the same reason.
Yup, as mentioned above, Hoagland has been playing it and even took a UWR list running 4x Nahiri and 1X Emrakul to a 5-0 recently. Joe was also plugging the card on his stream for Legacy Miracles and both him and Jeff talked about it at the pro tour as being a sleeper/initially under valued option.
As an added bonus, you can slip in a couple copies of her and an emrakul into most any deck that can protect her and support the colors without watering down your deck. It's a compact combo and as mentioned above fits into Kiki as well.
1. Easy to fit into a variety of decks without watering them now
2. Fairly low/average starting price at mythic
3. Has seen success in Legacy and Modern
4. Desirable for commander
5. It's being talked about by several pros as being undervalued
Easy to see why it is spiking, and I honestly think it will go even higher if it continues to see moderate success, especially at mythic.
As for standard, I'm not sure how much use it is seeing there.
*Edited: spelling
I would agree with this. Card filtering and draw can be dangerous enablers. I love these sorts of cards in legacy and would welcome them in modern, but despite my bias I think it is risky and potentially harmful so I understand the reason why they probably won't come off the list. The format is very diverse at the moment and appears headed in a healthy direction. I'd love to see them try it out, but I think it will be some time before they do so, if they ever do take them off.
D'oh, reading comprehension for the win on my part. I guess you can grab removal or a goyf with it...
Thank you, I will check that out. I just had the idea and jumped in to the thread while I had a few minutes free on a quick lunch break, I didn't have time to read further.
You, I like you.
A fellow Gifts player I see.
I misread in that case. Counter/bolt/bounce is much much more reasonable, otherwise it's just a better cryptic command 80% of the time for UWR. I actually think that would be fairly balanced after thinking it through more, card draw is always a risky thing and one of the most powerful things you can do so I always tend to be conservative with it.
I also want counterspell back in modern, I don't think it's too powerful at all.
My only issue tends to be with overly pushed cards as BGx is already goodstuffs.dec and I dislike cards that force people into playing them as they are strictly better than anything else out there. Don't get me wrong, you'll always have powerful stuff that is a cut above the rest of the card pool (lightning bolt, path, tarmogoyf, snap caster, liliana, etc) but I wouldn't want to get to the point where every color combo is just a goodstuffs deck.
I play 4C gifts by the way, I would love to have more counters that are viable and be able to up my blue count.
A single card that bolts/counters/draws (choose two) is just that, overpowered, consistently good in most any situation, requires nothing else to set up other than hitting land drops and can't be disrupted other than countering it.
Just my two cents, but multi card engines vs single cards should not be compared. Modern is powerful, yes, but that would be over the top and isn't overly unique as a single card. It further turns UWR into another good stuffs deck that plays four of these cards because it is the best possible option.
I've been discussing the card with some friends and I think Nahiri is deceivingly powerful and very easy to ultimate if playing a deck that has a ton of ways to keep the board clean and protect her. She basically reads, "deal with me before two more turns pass or you lose". It's relatively low on the investment of number of cards required to get the combo and it helps us filter our hands to get the answers we need more easily.
I haven't played BWR in years, but I used to play it with Liliana, Souls, Dark Confidant, etc and it always felt like I could control the board but ran out of gas on trying to finish the opponent. You'd have to take out confidant of course and replace with something like painful truths for additional card draw.
Just a thought, probably a bad one, but a thought none the less (UWr is probably the better shell for protecting the combo).
Siege Rhino
Flickerwisp
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Qasali Pridemage
Fulminator Mage
Too many options to list out really, there are a lot of them for sure.