Actually have spoken with him about the deck before and read his articles. Wanted to see if there was any discussion of it here. Some versions that ran faithless looting and more izzet charms showed up on MTGO a bit ago.
Not finding any info on RUW gifts, granted it's a very different shell -- I don't have Lilianas or Goyfs, but I'd be willing to buy the Lilis. I have a lot of the RUW stuff. How much of a disadvantage would I be at not running any Goyfs, or not going green/black? I have pretty much everything else for a list. The loam/raven's crime combo is essential to any version of this deck?
One of the best parts of the old primer was the sideboarding advice. I have not played this deck enough to really contribute to this -- I just switched over from the Fae version, which I knew really well, but this deck seems to perform better so I wanted to try. I also am not sure when to be aggressive or when to hold back. Do I pretty much need YP or Delver in an opener to keep?
What I've noticed is it looks like this deck has a worse matchup with almost everything than Fae. Pod was a really good matchup for Fae, and does not look so with this. What are you sideboarding in? I rarely see magma spray in sideboards, and it's an all star against pod, hatebears, merfolk, and affinity, all decks that I want to side in more removal for countermagic. Is combust for UWX, mainly for manlands and resto? What do you do against goyf? Would love to see more info. This also seems worse against jund/rock post board. Also with less countermagic, seems worse against storm.
Keep in mind I'm skewed towards Fae. I know Fae and Pyrodelver are two completely different decks, but I need to know how to change my mindset playing them.
Why would ppl think Spellstutter Sprite 'version' is better than Young Pyromancer? YP can just take over games if its not dealt with.
Like theirs a -reason- ppl @ the GP ran Young Pryo.. and didn't run SSS.
/filed under 'fan clubs for pet cards'.
It's not uncommon to have spellstutter hit a 2 mana spell with 4 mutavaults in the deck. I've hit 3 mana spells with it, though it doesn't happen all too often. The S3 version also packs more burn, so you can go straight to the face if you need to. It looks to me like the YP version uses the YP tokens to do this instead of burn, at the cost of playing gitaxian probe and serum visions.
I've yet to try the YP version; I want to soon. The criticism I've heard is you need the exact removal/countermagic for your opponents situation in your hand with YP, whereas the S3 version is a bit more flexible in that regard.
The deck is not about spellstutter vs. young pyromancer. There's 8 other slots (4 serum vision, 4 probe) at least that are affected. The YP version also runs less mutavaults, which I have found to be quite useful in the S3 version.
EDIT: I realize now you said Spellstutter Sprite version, but I'm leaving my language intact.
hello, can u help me choose interesting deck?
I have money and planning a competitive deck in modern. im like Tron, UWR, TWIN, Living end. but that deck is interesting? do not get bored after months. and also tier 1
Hard to say what will not get boring. What playstyle do you prefer? Living End and Tron, depending on which version, are probably the least interactive of the decks you listed, which might make one deck get boring after a while.
Jund is always good, and you can pretty easily turn it into Junk by swapping out the red for Lingering Souls. UWR is pretty much the only dedicated control deck.
I don't really have anything to properly run in those two slots (was only planning on a pair for budget reasons), so I just chucked a pair of Electrolyze in the deck to round it out to 60. Between car repairs and the fact that I have been buying up sets of Shocklands lately, my hobby funds are tapped atm, hoping Snapcasters do not go up much for another month or so before I can pick them up.
Agree with fyawm on the snapcaster pick ups. Electrolyze should be fine. It fits in with what the deck wants to do. I run 2 in the Fae version.
Last year the announcement was in April, so it should not be very far off.
I am taking my first swing at UR Delver this Friday, first Modern deck. Looks to be really fun even if I don't have the Snapcasters at the moment.
I'd advise trying to borrow snapcasters if you can. It's really one of the most powerful cards in the deck, especially since you will want to close out games with snap-bolt.
Can anyone comment on playing the pyromancer version versus the spellstutter (Hoogland) version?
I'm playing the spellstutter version and I get that, aside from casting delvers, you're generally reacting to your opponent and playing on their turn.
How do you play the pyromancer version? Do you get delvers and pyro's out as quick as possible? Or do you deal with early threats and wait til you have the mana up to cast a pyromancer and protect it?
How would adding goyf to the UR delver shell make it less "durable"? The UR shell doesnt have a single body that dodges lightning bolt.
The UR and RUG decks play differently. The UR deck is a flash deck, with most spells played on the opponents turn, and packs spellstutter sprite for slightly more disruption over more threats alotted by a RUG deck. The RUG deck looks like it's more about playing delver, stabilizing, then playing the bigger creatures. It looks to me more like a midrange deck despite playing delver.
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Spellstutter Sprite
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Ninja of the Deep Hours
2x Grim Lavamancer
It's not Modern unless it has messy mana bases!
What would your thoughts be on cutting one of the ninja for a singleton Vendilion Clique? Being able to put 3 power in the air and added disruption seems worth it. I think with the additional draw, and ability of grim lavamancer to take over, 3 snapcasters is ok. Also think that going down to 2 spell pierce would be ok, maybe moving one to the sideboard. It's been the least impressive counterspell in my opinion, but I haven't faced much combo at my LGS, so could be meta dependent.
I feel the strength of the list is in the 4x Snapcaster Mage, 4x Cryptic Command. There really isn't a play in Modern that's better than Cryptic Command 4th turn because it has so much utility whether you're ahead or behind on board.
I haven't figured out whether Disrupting Shoal is good or not. The limiting factor is that it's only playable is a heavily blue deck, but it's a very rewarding card for Tempo because it takes out the limit of only being able to play 1 card per turn.
Dropping Lightning Bolt has got to feel weird, but the fact that you can pitch Vapor Snag to Disrupting Shoal is key to answering turn 1 mana dorks while also setting up your own turn 1 play. The card disadvantage is later made up via Cryptic Command, Electrolyze, Serum Visions, Spellstutter Sprite, Snapcaster Mage, and Remand.
I feel that you still need Pillar of Flame to answer Voice of Resurgence and/or Kitchen Finks, both of which are the bane of blue-based tempo decks. I didn't like the Gitaxian Probe in Woo's list, I'd rather have fetches to thin the land count, flip away lands not needed during Delver flips, and possibly go heavier on red.
I think part of what makes Woo's list work so well are the ninjas. They allow you to buy back spellstutter sprite and snapcaster mage. Add in vendilion clique, and most of your threats can be recurred. I agree with you on the probes not really being necessary, since you can play through disruption reasonably well (I think). I'm new to this deck and the format and have not played with serum, so I don't want to speak to it. This list just 4-0'd a daily, and sacrifices vendilion cliques for ninja and a lonesome young pyromancer. I may try something similar out tonight. I don't have my decklist on me but it would be like this one shown below +2 vendilion clique, -1 cryptic command (Don't own any), -1 pyromancer, +1 island, -1 sword for +1 sword of light and shadow.
Not sure if anyone else's been paying attention but all over MTG Finance, Disrupting Shoal just blew up. The idea is to play a good number cards to draw cards and to use Disrupting Shoal as back up.
The deck isn't finished, obviously, but there's potential here. This is the Tempo of the Tempo, going as far as to exile cards to keep up the Tempo.
Blue cards are getting a ton of attention, I love it.
Do y'all think that this ninja-bear deck is just the better version of this? It plays a little differently, but has more ways to gain card advantage. Kind of sucks since I just assembled this deck and don't want to see it drop off the face of the earth.
Disrupting Shoal is just so you can have a free counterspell correct? I like the ability to tap out with Ninja Bears, and it seems to be a slightly more aggro version of this deck, focusing less on burn and more on pure tempo.
Largest magic tournament in North America to date?
I believe GP Vegas wants to have a word with you.
Still, I don't think Legacy is dying either. At my LGS more and more people are playing it. Perhaps if Modern had the metagame of legacy, that wouldn't be true.
What I've noticed is it looks like this deck has a worse matchup with almost everything than Fae. Pod was a really good matchup for Fae, and does not look so with this. What are you sideboarding in? I rarely see magma spray in sideboards, and it's an all star against pod, hatebears, merfolk, and affinity, all decks that I want to side in more removal for countermagic. Is combust for UWX, mainly for manlands and resto? What do you do against goyf? Would love to see more info. This also seems worse against jund/rock post board. Also with less countermagic, seems worse against storm.
Keep in mind I'm skewed towards Fae. I know Fae and Pyrodelver are two completely different decks, but I need to know how to change my mindset playing them.
It's not uncommon to have spellstutter hit a 2 mana spell with 4 mutavaults in the deck. I've hit 3 mana spells with it, though it doesn't happen all too often. The S3 version also packs more burn, so you can go straight to the face if you need to. It looks to me like the YP version uses the YP tokens to do this instead of burn, at the cost of playing gitaxian probe and serum visions.
I've yet to try the YP version; I want to soon. The criticism I've heard is you need the exact removal/countermagic for your opponents situation in your hand with YP, whereas the S3 version is a bit more flexible in that regard.
The deck is not about spellstutter vs. young pyromancer. There's 8 other slots (4 serum vision, 4 probe) at least that are affected. The YP version also runs less mutavaults, which I have found to be quite useful in the S3 version.
EDIT: I realize now you said Spellstutter Sprite version, but I'm leaving my language intact.
Hard to say what will not get boring. What playstyle do you prefer? Living End and Tron, depending on which version, are probably the least interactive of the decks you listed, which might make one deck get boring after a while.
Jund is always good, and you can pretty easily turn it into Junk by swapping out the red for Lingering Souls. UWR is pretty much the only dedicated control deck.
Agree with fyawm on the snapcaster pick ups. Electrolyze should be fine. It fits in with what the deck wants to do. I run 2 in the Fae version.
I'd advise trying to borrow snapcasters if you can. It's really one of the most powerful cards in the deck, especially since you will want to close out games with snap-bolt.
What are you running instead?
I'm playing the spellstutter version and I get that, aside from casting delvers, you're generally reacting to your opponent and playing on their turn.
How do you play the pyromancer version? Do you get delvers and pyro's out as quick as possible? Or do you deal with early threats and wait til you have the mana up to cast a pyromancer and protect it?
The UR and RUG decks play differently. The UR deck is a flash deck, with most spells played on the opponents turn, and packs spellstutter sprite for slightly more disruption over more threats alotted by a RUG deck. The RUG deck looks like it's more about playing delver, stabilizing, then playing the bigger creatures. It looks to me more like a midrange deck despite playing delver.
What would your thoughts be on cutting one of the ninja for a singleton Vendilion Clique? Being able to put 3 power in the air and added disruption seems worth it. I think with the additional draw, and ability of grim lavamancer to take over, 3 snapcasters is ok. Also think that going down to 2 spell pierce would be ok, maybe moving one to the sideboard. It's been the least impressive counterspell in my opinion, but I haven't faced much combo at my LGS, so could be meta dependent.
Have you established a sideboard yet?
I think part of what makes Woo's list work so well are the ninjas. They allow you to buy back spellstutter sprite and snapcaster mage. Add in vendilion clique, and most of your threats can be recurred. I agree with you on the probes not really being necessary, since you can play through disruption reasonably well (I think). I'm new to this deck and the format and have not played with serum, so I don't want to speak to it. This list just 4-0'd a daily, and sacrifices vendilion cliques for ninja and a lonesome young pyromancer. I may try something similar out tonight. I don't have my decklist on me but it would be like this one shown below +2 vendilion clique, -1 cryptic command (Don't own any), -1 pyromancer, +1 island, -1 sword for +1 sword of light and shadow.
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
22 lands
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Young Pyromancer
15 creatures
1 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
23 other spells
2 Combust
1 Dismember
1 Electrolyze
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Magma Spray
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spellskite
2 Spreading Seas
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Threads of Disloyalty
15 sideboard cards
Do y'all think that this ninja-bear deck is just the better version of this? It plays a little differently, but has more ways to gain card advantage. Kind of sucks since I just assembled this deck and don't want to see it drop off the face of the earth.
Disrupting Shoal is just so you can have a free counterspell correct? I like the ability to tap out with Ninja Bears, and it seems to be a slightly more aggro version of this deck, focusing less on burn and more on pure tempo.
I believe GP Vegas wants to have a word with you.
Still, I don't think Legacy is dying either. At my LGS more and more people are playing it. Perhaps if Modern had the metagame of legacy, that wouldn't be true.