Thanks for the feedback, I'll check that WU Quest deck out. And you're right, turn 4 is probably too late to be dropping Anthems. I just made this on a whim and wanted to see what people thought of it, or if they could direct me to a better version of the same deck (as you probably have).
Just wanted to post a brew that I've been working on so that it could get some real feedback. As the name implies, it's a WU deck focusing on fliers. Here's what I have so far:
I think the major flaw the deck currently has it its lack of card draw - I went for Faerie Miscreant over Cloudfin Raptor to try and remedy this problem, but the cantrip is conditional and can be disrupted by popping the Faerie in response. Speaking of getting popped, I am painfully aware of how vulnerable a Thunderclap Wyvern with no sources of pump is (at least it doesn't die to Abrupt Decay...), so I'm not all the way sure this deck will work. But I thought it'd be worth a shot. Any comments welcome,
I think Hunter Nance's match against Tom Ross that one time showed that we can beat even high-level Infect with the stuff we have in the mainboard, and my experience jives with that. I think we are slightly favored in the matchup because of the self-harm they tend to engage in, and all the disruption in Fish.
I guess now is when I should note that I was actually a WU proponent for a long time - I was enthralled with Kataki, Sygg, Path, Stony, Rest in Peace, and Harm's Way, so I ran that build for quite a while. I eventually returned to mono-U because of the consistency issues (uncommon, but they do happen), and that move has worked out great, so I'm not looking back.
I'm not sure I agree with the "ration out your forces and side out creatures" plan against Grixis, to be honest. Most of my success against Grixis is when I drop early creatures (especially Cursecatcher) and bumrush them, because they either can't get the 1-for-1s they want (aka the ones that cost me tempo), or they can't get enough of them to stabilize. Furthermore, if I get the Spellskite and/or Kira, Great Glass-Spinner combination on the table post-board, the matchup is dramatically less challenging. Because of this, I've never had much difficulty with Grixis Control.
I agree that the "hold up counters" plan for combo is not always available, but in that event I've found that proactive use of Spreading Seas has been enough to slow most of those decks down (and if you don't get either, pray that they don't go off before you kill them, I guess). In the case of Bloom, Spell Pierce might not have game against Primeval Titan... but Vapor Snag does. Game 1 is always a bit dicey because your answers have to line up with their avenue of attack, but it's not impossible to win. Their deck isn't consistent, and you have answers in your mainboard that can stop them dead.
It's also true that you can't always trade cards for life with burn - but in that event, their hand has to be perfect for them to kill you before you kill them (so a combination of 7 direct damage spells and 3 lands in their first 10, and they'll probably need Searing Blaze and/or Lightning Helix to be among them), and even then a Cursecatcher or a Spell Pierce can save your bacon. And if their hand is anything other than that nut scenario I just described, I give us a marked advantage.
And last but not least, I'm not going to argue WU being better vs. Affinity - you're right, it is better. Stony Silence is beautiful against them, as is Kataki, War's Wage. However, what I will argue is that mono-U can hold its own post-board, and has more game against the field because of its greater internal consistency, and that is why I question the choice to go WU (to drag this all back on topic).
Grixis control often plays several copies of damnation between the 75. Jeskai and esper, and even azorius are still decks, and are played to some degree.
Jund and abzan often have a damnation or two in the 75.
Well, according to MTGTop8, Damnation doesn't seem to be too popular in Grixis Control. Of the 12 decks shown here, there are 5 total copies, and they are all in the sideboard (there are several more copies of Pyroclasm, but we beat that easily). I'd say that's not much of a concern. Jeskai and Esper are not played, and Azorius is very weak to Merfolk even with Supreme Verdict. Not what I'd consider a problem.
Yes, the decks with sweepers easy to identify. That doesn't mean you no longer have to fear sweepers. I've played modern and has damnation cast against me 5 times in a night. Sometimes more. Just because I know its coming doesn't make it not happen.
Well that seems to be an issue specific to your meta, because the at-large meta doesn't reflect what you're saying. It also does not reflect my experience. Furthermore, it's pretty easy to play a non-Verdict sweeper. Keep mana up for counters, bring dudes in with Vial, and whittle their life total down. Reejerey helps with all of that, by keeping your mana and Vial untapped, as well as giving you more pump for better beats.
Sure, maybe I won't rush out against grisselbrand, or bloom titan, or storm, or grixis or jund, or abzan or jeskai or ...
Why am I playing a card whose major purpose is to allow us to rush out again? I might play grixis and bloom titan and nothing else in a night. Or jund and grixis.
There's that strawman argument again. It's pretty feasible to keep mana open for counters while being aggressive against the combo decks (thanks to Æther Vial and Cursecatcher), and BGX and Grixis you do rush down, especially in Game 1. That's exactly how you beat them.
Playing three mana creatures that do nothing against combo decks does not stop you from playing cards that do impact combo, but playing with cards dead in your hand is rarely ideal. That being said, playing two spell pierce and 2 vapor snag does not mean that combo is a nonfactor. Your deck is often going to be sitting on several near-dead cards in hand, and very little interaction. Sure, you can decide to not tap out to play that merrow reejerey, and have made the correct decision, but you can also then lose the game because you have 2 spell pierces and more or less nothing else in your deck to stop them from just casting hive mind.
The key cog to stop isn't Hive Mind IMO, it's Summer Bloom. And again, Vial in dudes, keep mana up for counters and bounce. It's not hard, I swear. Will you potentially drop Game 1 if you don't draw the right cards? You sure will, but every deck runs that risk, and he has to draw the right cards to drop you too (remember, Amulet Bloom's internal consistency is suspect, and we're not nearly as vulnerable to the Titan approach).
If you have even a 50% matchup against affinity vs reasonable players with only hurkyl's recall and chalice of the void, I would be shocked. Affinity is at best, a 40% matchup for fish to win the match. That includes playing hate. Chalice and hurkyls are fine, and they're better than nothing at all, but with stony silence and or kataki, affinity is an easily winnable matchup. I play mono-u fish currently, and I still have a 50%+ lifetime winrate against affinity because being able to play actually good hate leads to games won. Grixis in all its flavors is a similar story. Sure, relic is a fine sideboard card against them, but rest in peace can hand you free games. Sejiri merfolk can do exactly the same.
I've tested both matchups, and I feel confident in my decisions for both. Post-board vs. Affinity has actually gone quite well (though my sample size is moderate), but Game 1 is so tough that it's about 50/50 overall. Grixis is a blue deck, and unless they draw a hand festooned with removal and I run out of gas (and postboard that rarely happens, since I'm running 32 creatures against them), I tend to win.
While tron is a good matchup for fish, bloom titan, grisselbrand, and other similar decks, as well as affinity are historically very bad matchups. 35% against affinity is not zero, its not an impossible matchup, but I'd rather have a 60% than a 40%, especially considering affinity is one of the most played decks. Merfolk is a capable of beating these decks, but if you play against a lot of bloom titan, and burn, and affinity, a white splash is probably going to do you a lot more good than bad.
I can see how Grishoalbrand would be tough (thankfully, that virtually doesn't exist in the current meta - ktkenshinx's own ModernNexus has it at a measly weighted meta share of 0.8%), but Bloom hasn't been that tough in my experience (closer to 50/50). Chalice of the Void turns off the Hive Mind plan completely (set it on x=0, watch your opponent swear audibly), and Spreading Seas has been just disruptive enough to help me finish them. I'm also unconvinced that the gains made by Sejiri Merfolk are a net positive over the life you pay for the W fetches and shocks. And again, Burn isn't a difficult matchup in my experience. In Game 1, you trade cards for life (by blocking, countering, and bouncing), stick enough Lords or a Master of Waves to make them unable to attack you back, and that's it. In Game 2, you bring in your hate, and it's pretty smooth sailing from there.
Yeah, I misspoke there. I know that Harbinger off Vial doesn't trigger Reejerey. Should have phrased that better.
Damnation and Supreme Verdict are rarely played cards in the current meta, and when the are played, they are employed by decks that are already soft to Merfolk. All that will do is maybe drag the matchup back to 50-50. The decks with sweepers are also easy to identify, so against them you don't rush out, as I described before. I don't know if you don't read my posts, or if I'm not making myself clear enough.
Fighting off Amulet and Grishoalbrand doesn't preclude the use of Merrow Reejerey - you can run it and Spell Pierce in the same deck, I promise. As a matter of fact, I do, as I showed earlier in the thread (and link to again here). Your entire deck construction point seems like nothing but a strawman argument. If you want to play bad cards like Sejiri Merfolk because they make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, fine. But it's not worth splashing W over, and you don't need W to beat Affinity or Tron, either. Hurkyl's Recall and Chalice of the Void give Affinity plenty of problems, and you can slow Tron down dramatically with Ghost Quarter, the aforementioned Chalice, and good old Spreading Seas. I honestly don't know where you're getting your opinions from - virtually all of the high-placing Merfolk decks are mono-U, and they've faced the decks you mentioned to get there.
Obviously, you have to pick your spots with when you leverage Merrow Reejerey as ramp (i.e. not against anyone running sweepers), but he's plenty useful as consistent disruption/pressure anyway. I find that one of the sure signs that I'm going to win a game is when I get my fish out of Lightning Bolt range - you need 3 Lords for that. Good luck getting that accomplished with just 8 in the deck. Furthermore, the "Fish-splosions" (my personal name for them) can turn a bad board state into a good one against the less interactive types of decks (some of which, I will point out, we struggle against). And again, synergy with Harbinger - the value that you get out of this combination cannot be overstated, especially when Harbinger is flashed in either on its own accord or with Vial. I run 4 Reejerey in my mono-U shell, and I don't ever even side them out - it's been consistently excellent. And if running WU makes Reejerey less appealing, then I question the wisdom of employing that color combination in the first place.
I find the lack of Reejerey flabbergasting, to be honest with you. In my experience, this deck finds it hard to fight through removal without enough pump (heck, I used to run Phantasmal Image before Harbinger came along, because I wanted more pump), and its tap/untap effect can do so much good - it serves as evasion, you can ramp with untapped lands, it can force your opponent's hand if they were holding up mana for answers, it lets you recycle Cavern of Souls to dodge counterspells, it lets you pay for stuff and still attack with Mutavault, it recycles Vial, it lets you bounce untapped creatures with Harbinger of the Tides... The card is a gold mine, and it must be answered or oftentimes you just win. And you're proposing to play Sejiri Merfolk over it? That just doesn't make sense to me.
Yeah. It's a shame, though - I really like cards like Shadowmage Infiltrator and Dimir Cutpurse theoretically, but keeping them alive is just too darn hard.
Are you sure Seachrome Coast isn't better than fetches/shocks in this Burn-heavy meta? I feel like taking an extra bolt or losing one to fetch a CIPT land are both compromising plays in Fish vs. Burn. You need a plains for Sejiri but I'm not sure he's worth it.
Also, are there any W cards to improve the elves matchup?
Not a lot of hate cards for Elves in W, no. Allied colors and all that. Your best bet is still Hibernation.
With regards to Sejiri Merfolk... I agree, he's not worth running a painful manabase over. The list above is missing Merrow Reejerey, which I think is a colossal mistake. It's more pump that demands an answer, pseudo-ramp or even more interaction, and it has great synergy with Mutavault, Cavern of Souls, Æther Vial, and especially Harbinger of the Tides. That just doesn't strike me as good.
That might help against BGX and control decks, but if you're behind on board state it's kind of a shot in the dark. Plus, it doesn't help against aggro decks that try to overwhelm me with size and speed. I just think that the Grixis shell for this "pure tempo" strategy falls short compared to the Temur one, and it all feels like shoe-horning a square peg in a round hole.
I'm trying to make the best possible deck against a wide metagame. Are there any changes I should make? I don't see mainboard spell pierces as frequently these days, but I don't want to be helpless against combo in game one.
Solid overall (in fact, your mainboard is almost identical to mine), but I'd swap Negate for Chalice of the Void. It has game in more matchups, and it can basically shut some decks out of the game until it is dealt with (looking at you, Living End). You may also want to consider Spellskite.
Just wanted to post a brew that I've been working on so that it could get some real feedback. As the name implies, it's a WU deck focusing on fliers. Here's what I have so far:
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Azorius First-Wing
4 Faerie Miscreant
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Pride of the Clouds
4 Thunderclap Wyvern
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Warden of Evos Isle
Enchantments (4)
4 Favorable Winds
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
2 Vapor Snag
Lands (20)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
2 Moorland Haunt
2 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Azorius Charm
2 Disenchant
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Hushwing Gryff
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Stony Silence
1 Tormod's Crypt
As is probably pretty obvious, the goal here is to spit out a bunch of flying dudes and pump them with either Favorable Winds or Thunderclap Wyvern (which is actually the inspiration for the deck). We have a decent amount of interaction thanks to Aven Mindcensor, Judge's Familiar, Path to Exile, Spell Pierce, Vapor Snag, and Vendilion Clique. Warden of Evos Isle gives us a bit of midgame ramp, and Pride of the Clouds acts as our finisher. Last but not least, Moorland Haunt lets us mine our graveyard for value. Our sideboard has Azorius Charm for aggro decks that try to race us, Disenchant, Hurkyl's Recall, and Stony Silence for Affinity, Hushwing Gryff for Twin, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner for BGX and Grixis decks, and Tormod's Crypt as one-sided source of graveyard hate.
I think the major flaw the deck currently has it its lack of card draw - I went for Faerie Miscreant over Cloudfin Raptor to try and remedy this problem, but the cantrip is conditional and can be disrupted by popping the Faerie in response. Speaking of getting popped, I am painfully aware of how vulnerable a Thunderclap Wyvern with no sources of pump is (at least it doesn't die to Abrupt Decay...), so I'm not all the way sure this deck will work. But I thought it'd be worth a shot. Any comments welcome,
I guess now is when I should note that I was actually a WU proponent for a long time - I was enthralled with Kataki, Sygg, Path, Stony, Rest in Peace, and Harm's Way, so I ran that build for quite a while. I eventually returned to mono-U because of the consistency issues (uncommon, but they do happen), and that move has worked out great, so I'm not looking back.
I agree that the "hold up counters" plan for combo is not always available, but in that event I've found that proactive use of Spreading Seas has been enough to slow most of those decks down (and if you don't get either, pray that they don't go off before you kill them, I guess). In the case of Bloom, Spell Pierce might not have game against Primeval Titan... but Vapor Snag does. Game 1 is always a bit dicey because your answers have to line up with their avenue of attack, but it's not impossible to win. Their deck isn't consistent, and you have answers in your mainboard that can stop them dead.
It's also true that you can't always trade cards for life with burn - but in that event, their hand has to be perfect for them to kill you before you kill them (so a combination of 7 direct damage spells and 3 lands in their first 10, and they'll probably need Searing Blaze and/or Lightning Helix to be among them), and even then a Cursecatcher or a Spell Pierce can save your bacon. And if their hand is anything other than that nut scenario I just described, I give us a marked advantage.
And last but not least, I'm not going to argue WU being better vs. Affinity - you're right, it is better. Stony Silence is beautiful against them, as is Kataki, War's Wage. However, what I will argue is that mono-U can hold its own post-board, and has more game against the field because of its greater internal consistency, and that is why I question the choice to go WU (to drag this all back on topic).
Well, according to MTGTop8, Damnation doesn't seem to be too popular in Grixis Control. Of the 12 decks shown here, there are 5 total copies, and they are all in the sideboard (there are several more copies of Pyroclasm, but we beat that easily). I'd say that's not much of a concern. Jeskai and Esper are not played, and Azorius is very weak to Merfolk even with Supreme Verdict. Not what I'd consider a problem.
Well that seems to be an issue specific to your meta, because the at-large meta doesn't reflect what you're saying. It also does not reflect my experience. Furthermore, it's pretty easy to play a non-Verdict sweeper. Keep mana up for counters, bring dudes in with Vial, and whittle their life total down. Reejerey helps with all of that, by keeping your mana and Vial untapped, as well as giving you more pump for better beats.
There's that strawman argument again. It's pretty feasible to keep mana open for counters while being aggressive against the combo decks (thanks to Æther Vial and Cursecatcher), and BGX and Grixis you do rush down, especially in Game 1. That's exactly how you beat them.
The key cog to stop isn't Hive Mind IMO, it's Summer Bloom. And again, Vial in dudes, keep mana up for counters and bounce. It's not hard, I swear. Will you potentially drop Game 1 if you don't draw the right cards? You sure will, but every deck runs that risk, and he has to draw the right cards to drop you too (remember, Amulet Bloom's internal consistency is suspect, and we're not nearly as vulnerable to the Titan approach).
I've tested both matchups, and I feel confident in my decisions for both. Post-board vs. Affinity has actually gone quite well (though my sample size is moderate), but Game 1 is so tough that it's about 50/50 overall. Grixis is a blue deck, and unless they draw a hand festooned with removal and I run out of gas (and postboard that rarely happens, since I'm running 32 creatures against them), I tend to win.
I can see how Grishoalbrand would be tough (thankfully, that virtually doesn't exist in the current meta - ktkenshinx's own ModernNexus has it at a measly weighted meta share of 0.8%), but Bloom hasn't been that tough in my experience (closer to 50/50). Chalice of the Void turns off the Hive Mind plan completely (set it on x=0, watch your opponent swear audibly), and Spreading Seas has been just disruptive enough to help me finish them. I'm also unconvinced that the gains made by Sejiri Merfolk are a net positive over the life you pay for the W fetches and shocks. And again, Burn isn't a difficult matchup in my experience. In Game 1, you trade cards for life (by blocking, countering, and bouncing), stick enough Lords or a Master of Waves to make them unable to attack you back, and that's it. In Game 2, you bring in your hate, and it's pretty smooth sailing from there.
Damnation and Supreme Verdict are rarely played cards in the current meta, and when the are played, they are employed by decks that are already soft to Merfolk. All that will do is maybe drag the matchup back to 50-50. The decks with sweepers are also easy to identify, so against them you don't rush out, as I described before. I don't know if you don't read my posts, or if I'm not making myself clear enough.
Fighting off Amulet and Grishoalbrand doesn't preclude the use of Merrow Reejerey - you can run it and Spell Pierce in the same deck, I promise. As a matter of fact, I do, as I showed earlier in the thread (and link to again here). Your entire deck construction point seems like nothing but a strawman argument. If you want to play bad cards like Sejiri Merfolk because they make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, fine. But it's not worth splashing W over, and you don't need W to beat Affinity or Tron, either. Hurkyl's Recall and Chalice of the Void give Affinity plenty of problems, and you can slow Tron down dramatically with Ghost Quarter, the aforementioned Chalice, and good old Spreading Seas. I honestly don't know where you're getting your opinions from - virtually all of the high-placing Merfolk decks are mono-U, and they've faced the decks you mentioned to get there.
Not a lot of hate cards for Elves in W, no. Allied colors and all that. Your best bet is still Hibernation.
With regards to Sejiri Merfolk... I agree, he's not worth running a painful manabase over. The list above is missing Merrow Reejerey, which I think is a colossal mistake. It's more pump that demands an answer, pseudo-ramp or even more interaction, and it has great synergy with Mutavault, Cavern of Souls, Æther Vial, and especially Harbinger of the Tides. That just doesn't strike me as good.
If you're going to splash W (which I'm in disagreement with, but that's a story for another post), I think you do it for the great sideboard toys (Stony Silence, Kataki, War's Wage, maybe Rest in Peace) and some more permanent interaction tools (Path to Exile, Harm's Way, maybe Sygg, River Guide).
Solid overall (in fact, your mainboard is almost identical to mine), but I'd swap Negate for Chalice of the Void. It has game in more matchups, and it can basically shut some decks out of the game until it is dealt with (looking at you, Living End). You may also want to consider Spellskite.