I'm surprised that this deck is still alive. Don't get me wrong, I love this deck and still have my altered Kor Spiritdancer, but with the meta right now (or even prior DS), this deck will really struggle. Good luck guys!
Why am I seeing Declaration of Stone in the SB of some Eldrazi and Taxes build? What is it for?
I believe it's a catch-all card, but in particular, it's something that's good against dsj when they drop multiple and we can't otherwise answer them. However, I see it as a budget EE.
I see, how about the 2x Fatal Push in the SB? is it a must have now? I personally like Dismember better.
Yeah, actually lost the semi-finals to Scapeshift even after having 28 life since I kept drawing B/W lands, wishing it was GQs. He got his payback after I beaten him in R1 of the swiss. A bit misplay on Sculler and TKS of what to get but learned my lesson. Yeah, Stony is still a blast against Affinity, T2 drop of it still devastate them and I think it is there for other MUs like Ad Nauseun and Lanterns I think?
How about Bant Eldrazi, any advice on the SB?
Yeah, I understand, well, nothing I can do about it with anyway since I'm not that experience to make one. I'll just do my best to filter useful knowledge. Thanks for being easy to talk too and not taking the stance of a know it all, not that I am saying others are.
How do you feel against scapeshift now? We can lose to them, but should be pretty favored.
The number one card I've found that just straight beats bant eldrazi is worship as they just can't deal with it. But it's also a MU that I think can be favorable if you're experienced with it. I tend to try to keep them off colorless if I can at all.
Thanks for the information on what to SB. So I'll remove Aven Mindcensor to accommodate Orzhov (once I buy it, again) and -1 Blessed Alliance for Worship? In most of the matches, I've been boarding out Dark Confidant (the MUs I faced were, Jund Scapeshift Affinity Elves Merfolk), what MUs do we keep him in?
It's not that I am saying it is stronger, has a bigger player base or card pool, more of I just get frustrated that specific post on specific variants sometimes get lost/drowned/swallowed up by talks of the different variants, I just find it more clean and easier if what I said were to happen.
Sure thing. I'm not telling you these cards are absolutely the way to go, but rather that I see them to be good. I think that BA isn't great right now. And I also am not sure BW E&T needs stony, but that's my take.
I would for sure keep confidant in against jund. That's the perfect MU for it. I'd be temped to keep it in against scapeshift, although then you might put yourself in a more killable range, but I'd probably risk it for the acceleration and hope I can kill them first.
I understand. My point is that it seems better to get lost in a wealth of information than to ask the same questions in different places, making results harder to pull up and more confusing for someone who might not be playing your specific splash.
Yeah, actually lost the semi-finals to Scapeshift even after having 28 life since I kept drawing B/W lands, wishing it was GQs. He got his payback after I beaten him in R1 of the swiss. A bit misplay on Sculler and TKS of what to get but learned my lesson. Yeah, Stony is still a blast against Affinity, T2 drop of it still devastate them and I think it is there for other MUs like Ad Nauseun and Lanterns I think?
How about Bant Eldrazi, any advice on the SB?
Yeah, I understand, well, nothing I can do about it with anyway since I'm not that experience to make one. I'll just do my best to filter useful knowledge. Thanks for being easy to talk too and not taking the stance of a know it all, not that I am saying others are.
Hi guys, i'm glad to report I was able to enter my first ever Top 8 using the deck below and was able to reach 4th place. Still didn't know how to sideboard but I just winged it since no replied here. lol. Anyway, I have a few question:
1. What creatures do we remove against Jund & Junk? I was able to win with a timely Tidehollow, Strangler and on the back of RIP, wasn't able to draw Gideon to know if he carries his weight against this deck.
2. Against Merfolk and Elves, what do we do? lol. I actually switched out Wrath of god for Gideon, but when I was playing against Elves and was able to draw Gideon (not sure why I inserted him against them. lol), wished it was *** instead. @_@
Hope someone replies, and could someone freaking make a thread for specifically Eldrazi Taxes?? I'm not that experienced to make one myself but I really think a thread of its own would be nice.
Congrats on top 8!
Some players like to remove their vials against them in an effort to have better topdecks. I'm not a huge fan of that personally though. In your list, I'd probably go for something along the lines of +1 gideon +3 rip for something along the lines of -1 tks, -2 arbiter (this is mroe dependent on if you're on the play or draw. I like arbiter more on the play and less on the draw). and -1 strangler. This way your curve is similar, you have a great grindy top end and they lose a lot of resources from the GY. You might consider bringing in sin collector and or blessed alliance, but it's dependent on what you saw and play vs draw.
E&T should have the best MU of any D&T variant against creature decks like those you listed. I've never found merfolk to be too tough, regardless the splash, but elves is can be near unwinnable. Against merfolk, I like to bring in cards like ghostly prison and worship. Essentially, save removal for lords and use what firststrike you have to lead to bad combat steps for them. It's similar against elves, although it's harder because they can ramp and even if we keep them off lords, they seem to always find a coco and then just win. orzhov pontiff effects are phenomenal here.
I couldn't agree more with chalupacabra. Making a separate thread merely fractures the deck and the community. I don't play any splash exclusively (altho I probably play GW the most). Which thread would you have me in? All of them? I understand why you might feel frustrated about E&T posts getting lost in the other decks that are pulled up, but your questions weren't specific to E&T. Yes, your deck changes how you interact a bit, but my strategy against a deck like merfolk doesn't change from splash to splash. In fact, if you had a separate thread, even if I wanted to be a part of all of them, it would be difficult for me to do so and might mean that your question wouldn't be answered. That hardly seems preferable. Most of your SB will be similar even and even then, there are a ton of options. I know for instance that if you gave deathandcatmix and I the very same deck in the same meta, we'd make a different SB and we're two of the players who've been here a long time and have a stupid amount of hours under our respective belts with a huge variety of splashes. Furthermore, E&T made a big splash in the pond when it first came about, but has since dwindled in popularity. I wouldn't consider it to be different enough in card pool, player base, or power level to have its own thread.
Thanks for the information on what to SB. So I'll remove Aven Mindcensor to accommodate Orzhov (once I buy it, again) and -1 Blessed Alliance for Worship? In most of the matches, I've been boarding out Dark Confidant (the MUs I faced were, Jund Scapeshift Affinity Elves Merfolk), what MUs do we keep him in?
It's not that I am saying it is stronger, has a bigger player base or card pool, more of I just get frustrated that specific post on specific variants sometimes get lost/drowned/swallowed up by talks of the different variants, I just find it more clean and easier if what I said were to happen.
Hi guys, i'm glad to report I was able to enter my first ever Top 8 using the deck below and was able to reach 4th place. Still didn't know how to sideboard but I just winged it since no replied here. lol. Anyway, I have a few question:
1. What creatures do we remove against Jund & Junk? I was able to win with a timely Tidehollow, Strangler and on the back of RIP, wasn't able to draw Gideon to know if he carries his weight against this deck.
2. Against Merfolk and Elves, what do we do? lol. I actually switched out Wrath of god for Gideon, but when I was playing against Elves and was able to draw Gideon (not sure why I inserted him against them. lol), wished it was *** instead. @_@
Hope someone replies, and could someone freaking make a thread for specifically Eldrazi Taxes?? I'm not that experienced to make one myself but I really think a thread of its own would be nice.
Every list is different. What I do vs. Jund/Junk as Mono-White would be very different to what you'd do. I have maindeck Spellskites which can help protect the Arbiters from removal.
Vs. Elves/Eldrazi/Merfolk I board out 2 Resto Angels and board in 2 Magus of the Moat. Magus is a very strong bridge vs. those decks as they tend to be low on removal spells as they rely on brute force and swinging through rather than clearing a path with spells. Worship would probably work better for builds light on Thalia or running Lingering Souls. I run 4 GQ/4 Tec Edge so it's unrealistic me trying to hit 5 land to play Worship through Thalia.
Thanks guys, very informative responses. Honestly the number of variations is overwhelming with this deck; it's hard for me to figure out which "style" I want to be playing at the end of the day! Wescoe's list, Eldrazi and Taxes, Spirits and Taxes, B/W Taxes, they're all so fun and different O_O
Hope someone replies, and could someone freaking make a thread for specifically Eldrazi Taxes?? I'm not that experienced to make one myself but I really think a thread of its own would be nice.
One of the keys to doing well with this deck is understanding that, unlike most decks in the format, there is not now, nor will ever be, an optimized list.
It doesn't work that way.
Whether you call it D&T, E&T, W/X Flicker, or Bobo the Wonder Snake; all of the decks are built on the same core concepts and fundamental principles. This is why an E&T thread or Spirits&Taxes thread makes no sense to those who know the deck. It would be like calling every different options package of a car by a different model name. It didn't work for Alfa Romeo, and it won't work for us.
In fact, it's exactly this kind of splintering that hurts the deck. Constant renaming and reclassification of the deck has made information gathering and assessment of its meta position nearly impossible.
The best advice for people new to the archetype is to try a traditional white build for a few, then splash, trim, and substitute to your heart's content until you find a build that you feel addresses both the meta and your playstyle.
The reason I am suggesting the Eldrazi Taxes to splinter off in its own thread is some people may only use/play the Mono-W variant, which is good and all but would say "I use Mono-W so I'll probably doing something different from you" then suggest a card from their SB which if you look at the list of Eldrazi Taxes, they don't use that card most of the time. Yes, I agree, starting with the traditional Mono-W would probably help me learn the basic of said archetype but why can't I learn using the deck I already have and from people who actually uses it and CAN reply most of the time and SHARE their experience without being swallowed by the other posts of the other variants of said deck? I was able to complete the Eldrazi Taxes deck due to some of the cards being given to me by my friends and some being sold to me for very cheap prices, I don't want to spend resources on building the Mono-W version just to follow your old school way of learning something, when you have an alternative of pooling people who specifically plays the deck in one thread and have them help each other out without being drowned with posts from other variants.
Hi guys, i'm glad to report I was able to enter my first ever Top 8 using the deck below and was able to reach 4th place. Still didn't know how to sideboard but I just winged it since no replied here. lol. Anyway, I have a few question:
1. What creatures do we remove against Jund & Junk? I was able to win with a timely Tidehollow, Strangler and on the back of RIP, wasn't able to draw Gideon to know if he carries his weight against this deck.
2. Against Merfolk and Elves, what do we do? lol. I actually switched out Wrath of god for Gideon, but when I was playing against Elves and was able to draw Gideon (not sure why I inserted him against them. lol), wished it was *** instead. @_@
Hope someone replies, and could someone freaking make a thread for specifically Eldrazi Taxes?? I'm not that experienced to make one myself but I really think a thread of its own would be nice.
Hi guys, will be playing in a while in a GPT. Would love have a quick SB guide before I leave the house, hopefully someone can help teach what to remove and put in, here's my deck:
Well the card is played in jund literally always so I think having a set is just good for the future, however for us im not sure if money is the issue or not but having access to all 4 is certainly something to look towards
the benefit is they aren't printing a better card than Bob, so is it worth it? You always be able to move the card and if its not printed in MM17 then it might spike up in price after.
Well, yeah, I can definitely sell them again. Although, thinking of either only buying 2 or a set.
@Mr_bote, I'd forego the dark confidants in favor of something cheaper if I were just starting out and didn't know the deck all that well. The confidant slots are flexible and many things could fit. I think blade splicer is good at the moment.
It would make the curve better and a good combo for displacer. Will try it out after testing if Smasher is for me. In my playtest recently of the deck, it was mostly stuck in my hand and was usually able to cast it more freely when it I was already winning. Although, it's still a nice top deck during the late game. If ever I buy Bob, should I buy the minimum of 2x or whole playset.
@Mr_bote, eldrazi n taxes is still just a flavor of death n taxes. Ideas that are pertinent to straight white or even Wg are likely relevant to each other as opposed to bant eldrazi; which shares cards with both but is a very different deck.
I've played ent on a handful of occasions and didn't care for it. I found reality smasher to be a representative of the deck overall in that it's powerful but janky. This is due to the fact that smasher is five cmc. I don't think that 22 lands are enough to support that and it's likely to be stuck in your hand.
So, Bob is better then? I just started playing the deck (yes, I went straight to EnT rather than going thru the Mono-W DnT) and would really love to know if I should invest in the 2x Dark Confidant that I keep seeing in the recent lists that forego Reality Smasher.
I hope someone creates a dedicated Eldrazi Taxes post here, kind of hard to really discuss a specific variant of DnT when everyone talks about different things at the same time.
So, to those using Bob in EnT, how does it feel removing Reality Smasher for Bob? Better?
I see, how about the 2x Fatal Push in the SB? is it a must have now? I personally like Dismember better.
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Flickerwisp
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Wasteland Strangler
2x Dark Confidant
1x Blade Splicer
1x Kitchen Finks
4x Path to Exile
4x Cave of Koilos
4x Concealed Courtyard
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Shambling Vents
2x Plains
1x Godless Shrine
1x Swamp
3x Stony Silence
2x Kor Firewalker
2x Zealous Persecution
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Sin Collector
1x x Worship
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
BURN
Out: 2x Bob, 3x Strangler
In: 2x Kor, 1 Blessed Alliance, 1x Worship, 1x Sin Collector
SCAPESHIFT
Out: 3x Wasteland Strangler, 1x PTE
In: 1x Blessed Alliance (BA), 2x Zealous Persecution, 1x Sin Collector
LIVING END
Out: 4x Leonin Arbiter, 1x Kitchen Finks
In: 3x Rest In Peace, 1x BA, 1x Worship
JESKAI AGGRO
Out: 4x Leonin Arbiter, 2x TKS
In: 2x Zealous Persecution, 1x Orzhov Pontiff, 2x Kor, 1x Blessed Alliance, 1x Gideon
ELVES
Out: 4x Thalia, 1x TKS
In: 2x Zealous Persecution, 1x Orzhov Pontiff, 1x Gideon, 1x Worship
BANT SPIRITS
Out: 4x Leonin Arbiter, 1x Bob
In: 2x Zealous Persecution, 1x Pontiff, 1x, Blessed Alliance, 1x Worship
JUND/JUNK
Out: 2x Leonin (Draw)/Aether Vial (Play), 1x TKS, 1x Strangler, 1x Bob
In: 3x Rest In Peace, 1x Gideon, 1x BA
SKRED
Out: 4x Leonin Arbiter, 1x BA, 1x Finks
In: 2x Kor, 1x Blessed, 1x Gideon, 1x Pontiff
AFFINITY
Out: 4x Leonin Arbiter, 1x Finks, 1x TKS
In: 3x Stony Silence, 2x Zealous Persecution, 1 Pontiff
INFECT
Out: 1x Finks, 1x Splicer, 3x Strangler
In: 1x BA, 1x Pontiff, 2x Zealous Persecution, 1x Sin Collector
MERFOLK
Out: 2x Bob, 1x Leonin
In: 1x Worship, 2x Zealous Persecution
BANT ELDRAZI
Out: 3x Thalia
In: 1x Worship, 2x Zealous Persecution
DREDGE
Out: 2x Leonin, 1x TKS
In: 3x Rest in Peace
TRON
Out: 3x Wasteland Strangler
In: 3x Stony Silence
RG BREACH
Out: 1x Finks, 1x Strangler
In: 2x Zealous Persecution
AD NAUSEAM
Out: 3x Wasteland Strangler, 1x Finks
In: 3x Stony Silence, 1x Sin Collector
LANTERN CONTROL
Out: 3x Wasteland Strangler, 4x PTE
In: 3x Stony Silence, 3 RIP, 1x Gideon
ABZAN COMPANY
Out: 3x Thalia, 1x Finks
In: 3x Rest in Peace, 1x Sin Collector
On Scapeshift? A favorable MU but should still be attentive on how to play our creatures in order, learned that the hard way.
Thanks, will read on it.
Yeah, actually lost the semi-finals to Scapeshift even after having 28 life since I kept drawing B/W lands, wishing it was GQs. He got his payback after I beaten him in R1 of the swiss. A bit misplay on Sculler and TKS of what to get but learned my lesson. Yeah, Stony is still a blast against Affinity, T2 drop of it still devastate them and I think it is there for other MUs like Ad Nauseun and Lanterns I think?
How about Bant Eldrazi, any advice on the SB?
Yeah, I understand, well, nothing I can do about it with anyway since I'm not that experience to make one. I'll just do my best to filter useful knowledge. Thanks for being easy to talk too and not taking the stance of a know it all, not that I am saying others are.
Thanks for the information on what to SB. So I'll remove Aven Mindcensor to accommodate Orzhov (once I buy it, again) and -1 Blessed Alliance for Worship? In most of the matches, I've been boarding out Dark Confidant (the MUs I faced were, Jund Scapeshift Affinity Elves Merfolk), what MUs do we keep him in?
It's not that I am saying it is stronger, has a bigger player base or card pool, more of I just get frustrated that specific post on specific variants sometimes get lost/drowned/swallowed up by talks of the different variants, I just find it more clean and easier if what I said were to happen.
I'll just say thank you on this one.
The reason I am suggesting the Eldrazi Taxes to splinter off in its own thread is some people may only use/play the Mono-W variant, which is good and all but would say "I use Mono-W so I'll probably doing something different from you" then suggest a card from their SB which if you look at the list of Eldrazi Taxes, they don't use that card most of the time. Yes, I agree, starting with the traditional Mono-W would probably help me learn the basic of said archetype but why can't I learn using the deck I already have and from people who actually uses it and CAN reply most of the time and SHARE their experience without being swallowed by the other posts of the other variants of said deck? I was able to complete the Eldrazi Taxes deck due to some of the cards being given to me by my friends and some being sold to me for very cheap prices, I don't want to spend resources on building the Mono-W version just to follow your old school way of learning something, when you have an alternative of pooling people who specifically plays the deck in one thread and have them help each other out without being drowned with posts from other variants.
1. What creatures do we remove against Jund & Junk? I was able to win with a timely Tidehollow, Strangler and on the back of RIP, wasn't able to draw Gideon to know if he carries his weight against this deck.
2. Against Merfolk and Elves, what do we do? lol. I actually switched out Wrath of god for Gideon, but when I was playing against Elves and was able to draw Gideon (not sure why I inserted him against them. lol), wished it was *** instead. @_@
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Flickerwisp
3x Wasteland Strangler
2x Dark Confidant
1x Blade Splicer
1x Kitchen Finks
4x Path to Exile
4x Concealed Courtyard
4x Cave of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Plains
2x Shambling Vents
1x Swamp
1x Godless Shrine
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Kor Firewalker
3x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Sin Collector
2x Zealous Persecution
Hope someone replies, and could someone freaking make a thread for specifically Eldrazi Taxes?? I'm not that experienced to make one myself but I really think a thread of its own would be nice.
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Tidehollow Sculler
3x Flickerwisp
3x Wasteland Strangler
2x Dark Confidant
1x Blade Splicer
1x Kitchen Finks
4x Path to Exile
4x Concealed Courtyard
4x Cave of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Plains
2x Shambling Vents
1x Swamp
1x Godless Shrine
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Kor Firewalker
3x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Wrath of God
1x Sin Collector
2x Zealous Persecution
Thanks guys.
Where can I find the list of Catmix? Thanks
Set it is then. Thanks
Well, yeah, I can definitely sell them again. Although, thinking of either only buying 2 or a set.
It would make the curve better and a good combo for displacer. Will try it out after testing if Smasher is for me. In my playtest recently of the deck, it was mostly stuck in my hand and was usually able to cast it more freely when it I was already winning. Although, it's still a nice top deck during the late game. If ever I buy Bob, should I buy the minimum of 2x or whole playset.
So, Bob is better then? I just started playing the deck (yes, I went straight to EnT rather than going thru the Mono-W DnT) and would really love to know if I should invest in the 2x Dark Confidant that I keep seeing in the recent lists that forego Reality Smasher.
So, to those using Bob in EnT, how does it feel removing Reality Smasher for Bob? Better?