My matches were: UW control win 2-0 cards that preformed well:stubborn denial, thoughtseize under-performing cards: none came up notes: played against an inexperience pilot. tried not to over-extend myself by just playing one strong threat while keeping up stubborn denial for their planeswalkers (specifically elspeth, sun's champion) and have another strong threat in my hand. I was trying to play around wraiths.
UW control win 2-0 notes: played against a very experience pilot. game 2 I used snapcaster to target thoughseize in order to make my death's shadow big enough to swing for lethal. during game 2, I cast a thoughtsieze while holding 2x death's shadow, anguished unmaking, and a geist of saint traft. I see that his hand is filled with spot removal, supreme verdict, and a gideon. I take the verdict and land geist to close out the game. turn 5 he played gideon and thought he was safe, but anguished unmaking took care of him.
mill win 2-0 cards that preformed well: delve cards, stubborn denial, lingering souls under-performing cards: none came up, I sided-out thought scour though notes: game 1 on turn 2 I didn't stubborn denialglimpse the unthinkable and was able to play tasigur, the golden fang and gurmag angler on the same turn. He used ghost quarter on my lands and I ended the game with two creatures in play with no lands. game 2 was close but having snapcaster in hand with a full, spell-filled graveyard is a great way to control the game.
Overall, the deck felt great to play. Stubborn denial was the best card all night and I wouldn't go less than 4 in the 75. I like the 2/2 split between the sideboard and main too. I played pretty conservative all night trying not to over-extend myself. I found that this deck is great at playing more of a control game while sticking one or two large threats and having one in reserve.
This is the MB im testing right now, but only had in Paper so no MTGO, i change the mana base to have 23 lands and add the 4th TS, still in the control side using Blight Herders + Sorin, maybe i will purchase some mutavaults to test the agro version, but righ now with the rise of Eldrazi Tron, and the victory from Affinity in GP Vegas after people "forgot it" i didnt want to take off the GQ.
How is the remove of fetchlands working in the manabase for the people who take them out ? Budget reason or 4x Concealed Courtyard work better ?
I presonaly like 3-4 marsh flats because they help with fatal push, thin our deck, and help with blood moon. Concealed Courtyard is great if your run a lot of discard, but is pretty disappointing mid game. I run a 3/4 split with flats/courtyard.
This one can eat Tidehollow Sculler or Mutavault and has
bonus synergy with Wasteland Strangler (exiling Cards). Also i do need
an additional Creature with Lifelink because my Meta is Merfolk, Goblins, Burn,
Death's Shadow and Affinity
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is a great card, but has horrible synnergy with path and anguished. You are probably better off adding a single planeswalker (either liliana, the new gideon, etc.) to give your deck more depth and the ability to attack from different angles.
Hey guys. Im new to this deck. So far I really like it. I have a couple of questions. First, I was just wondering how were you dealing with Blood Moon or Valakut ? There is many Ponza, Storm (with Blood Moon) and Valakut in my meta. Seem pretty rough...
Also, Im playing a list with no Mutavault but with GQ and Shambling. Which MU would be improve if I switch for the Mutavault decklist? Here is my decklist. Any advices would be appreciated. Thanks
Ponza is a complete nightmare. I have played against the deck 4 or 5 times and lost handley every time.
Valakut is also a nightmare, but not as bad as ponza.
The key against those decks is to disrupt them turn 1 (and hopefully turn 2 with tidehollow sculler) then apply as much pressure as possible. Your best play would be: turn 1 iok, turn 2 tidehollow, turn 3 reality smasher or thought-knot seer.
I would put more thoughtseize in your main deck (probably 4) and if you don't have them, put some appetite for brains (or even duress). Maybe even try out gideon of the trials. I figure that card would be decent against valakut.
I would also cut ratchet bomb from the mainboard. Unless you have a lot of wide creature decks at your LGS.
I think your getting confused. The 10th place deck did not run vault, Lilliana's. These are different types of decks.
Yeah, my bad! I think that I opened up the same deck in multiple tabs and didn't realize it!
The 10th place deck is running the eldrazi displacer and tidehollow sculler version that used to run!! Yay! I am a big fan of that deck. Eldrazi displacer has a lot of synergy with this deck with all of the enter the battlefield triggers and it can tap down the opponents board. Knight of glory is a really interesting choice and doesn't have synergy with lingering souls but is amazing with all of the fatal pushes and death's shadows running around.
The common theme between the decks that have placed well recently is that:
Thinking to test a similar version with Marsh Flats with Blight Herders instead Smashers and 2 Sorins instead the Glory-Bound.
4 relics and 4 Tormod's Crypt in the sideboard?!?!?!? Is the meta online that graveyard dependent?
Is Glory-Bound Initiate any good? The 3 power is no joke and drastically speeds up our clock. Does anybody have any experience with glory-bound in this deck? Glory-bound does fill out our lack of 2-drops.
Maybe cast out is a good fit for this deck? Cycling is decent and it takes care of karn, etc.
I'm no math genius and I may well have made some mistakes with my assumptions. If so I'd be interested to hear where I went wrong. But Karsten would suggest that you need something on the order of TWENTY BW duals to get Sculler out on curve 90% of the time with reasonable mulligan parameters. Running a single Swamp, a single Plains, and a single Fetid Heath would be functionally identical to running only duals in terms of casting BW spells. But, if you double up on any basics or on Heath then the odds get worse, not better. (Urborg would help with Liliana or board wipes, but not with Sculler.) Is Sculler worth gimping our manabase like this? It leaves room for only Temples and Caves and one Heath for C... and then we can no longer cast TKS on-curve on T4 reliably.
Twenty duals is correct according to Frank's math. I agree with you previously here.
I haven't played this deck for a few months (4 now??) since I just wanted to try out another deck. Plus, I felt that my bw eldrazi midrange brew was better but graveyard hate is amazing right now. I used to run tidehollow, then I hated him, then I loved him... it was not a healthy relationship. Against some decks, he is amazing. You can use him with eldrazi displacer to create a lock on the opponents draw step. The biggest drawback is that he dies to every single creature in the format and is not a great late game top-deck. He lead to a lot of games that were amazing, curving into tidehollow, hitting wasteland strangler, then thought-knot seer. But most games he would come down and I couldn't do anything to actaully stop the opponent.
I am glad that the bw processor deck is starting to get results. Joe's deck is just weird to me. Shriekmaw is an interesting addition and Mutavault is hands-down better than shambling vent. He had some really weird card choices:
Blessed Alliance - collective brutality is just better against burn. The untap mode could be relevant though. If you are expecting to face a lot of reality smashers, then I would pack this in the sideboard.
Only 4 discard spells? This deck wants to put the opponents card into the graveyard.
With the low number of discard spells and bad manabase, the deck literally doesn't do anything pro-active until it hits 3 mana. This is why we added mind stone to the deck. It gives us a higher probability to hit 3 mana as well as landing thought-knot seer on turn 3.
Tidehollow sculler is horrible with that manabase. Why would I cast tidehollow on turn 3+ when I could cast lingering souls, thought-knot, or anything else in the deck?
His build was built to curve out entirely and just drop the lategame entirely.
Sculler is such a bad topdeck, it's ridicolous.
Even worse, his Manabase is jank. Like total jank.
The real good idea we could take from him is that Ghost Quarter is no fit for the Meta at the moment. Mutavault fits much better - thats it.
This deck's success is built upon the right opening hand, good sideboarding and an extensive knowledge of the Modern-Metagame.
Nothing else is needed for succeeding.
I agree that ghost quarter is bad right now and it is just bad for this deck. Ghost quarter puts us back a turn, which is not something we want to do.
I am really excited to try out Bontu's Last Reckoning. One of black's biggest problem against fast zoo-type decks is not having a 3 mana wrath that can hit 3 toughness creatures. This wrath seems really good in a death shadow type build, if they hit their land drops. Turn 3 wrath. Turn 4 fatal push, bolt, stubborn denial, death's shadow, or gurmag angler.
Last two tournaments lost all matches, although were about to win when they topdecked a kill. Sad but I will tweak my sideboard to better answer my metagame. Tomorrow I will switch from smashers to Herders and let you know how it goes.
Topdeck's happen. That is one of the main problems with discard spells when compared to counter-magic --- you cannot stop a top-deck. With all the affinity, merfolk, junk running around your meta game you might want to up the sweepers to 2. Maybe try an engineered explosives if you have it. Or just put in an additional damnation, wrath of god, or day of judgment.
You could put a sweeper mainboard to have better game 1 matchups. I wouldn't recommend this for an unknown meta though.
I just play ranger of eos as a fun one-of. So far, it has been a fine card.
Orzhov charm seems like it would be so great for this deck. You can buy-back snapcasters, bring back death's shadows from the graveyard, or kill a creature. However, people who have played it said that it hasn't been great. I haven't tried it yet though.
I found where CalebD started to play some esper shadow on twitch here.
1-2 vs affinity, missing my thrid land drop g1 and drawing 10 lands and 6 spells g3.
2-0 vs Burn, not close. Given that we were in the 0-1 bracket I gave my opponent the friendly advice not to overboard into situational cards like Deflecting Palm, but he does not heed my advice and dies g2 with 2 of them in hand.
2-0 vs Zoo, bad hands for the matchup but played with a cool head and wasn't afraid to trade my TKS for a narnarm renegade when it was necessary. Played around Atarka's command at all times, and never feared the top of his deck. I play that deck, I know what its capabilities and its limitations are.
2-0 vs burn, Won game 2 at one. Made sure to take lines that would end up with my life at 5 with lethal for the next turn through searing blaze. the most damage he could possibly draw is boros charm, and draw it he did. gotta make your own luck, against decks like burn you can find lines even if they require you to take more damage earlier. your life is a resource, use it, dont be afraid.
2-1 vs Abzan, game 1 mulliganned a hand with seize, 2 souls and 2 sorin. Felt it was too weak against anything but jundy decks, and mulled to nearly the same hand but without the souls. Even though I got punished, on the blind it was a fine mulligan, especially because of my strength in games 2 and 3 vs abzan. My opponent was tilted and misplayed in subsequent games, but the writing was already on the wall and it did little to affect the outcome.
2-0 vs Death's Shadow, this was a breeze. g2 I had the gq interaction I mentioned, and later on in that game I made attacks that were sure to present lethal on the next turn and keep his life just high enough that a topdecked street wraith cycled into another street wraith into a temur battle rage would leave me at 1
2-1 vs valakut. was dead game 1 to any cards off the top other than valakut, forest, and khalani heart expedition for 2 turns. He drew forest forest and I stole it. game 2 I got crushed by a courser into a fast primetime. once they get multiple valakuts going the game is over. G3 I curved sculler into sculler into fulminator and never cracked the fulm. if they have 7 lands and draw scapeshift, you can destroy a mountain (not valakut) and stop 15 of the 18 damage coming your way due to the intervening if clause on valaukut that checks your other mountain count both when the trigger goes on the stack and tries to resolve. Dont crack your fulminator unless they for example have 5 lands and you can keep them off primetime for a turn, the 2 damage clock is important. Hard matchup, you need to do a lot of math and cost/benefit analysis
Seed #1 going into the top 8, we almost split but one guy didnt want to (which saved me from having to make the hard choice, do I split and just go home or be the ******** who makes everyone play?)
Quarters against affinity. G1 I had a good draw against his medium draw, and was able to chump with lingering souls while beating down long enough to survive any crazy draws, like a second ravager or a master of etherium. he had glint nest crane, which I am glad to see on the other side of the table given the alternatives. I was also likely dead to a line he could have taken involving poisoning me over 2 turns and praying i dont draw path/push/gq/souls, but he took the low risk low reward line. He regretted it, and I agreed that he should have gone for it instead of waiting. g2 I drew both zealous, and although one was enough to put me way ahead, the second one saved us from having to do combat math. 2-0
Semi's Bant Eldratzi. this deck is very different than ours, we are the control player for sure. landing the first tks is big tho, and they have access to way more tricks. g1 was easy, I tore up his hand and board and easily raced a smasher. G2 I have the hardest sculler of the day, with a wrath in hand I know he will eventually get the card back. He has drowner, smasher, and worship, and 3 lands in play, one being a temple. I took the worship, knowing I would need to draw a second wrath and a shambling vents to be able to beat it waaay down the line. My hope was that he would whiff on land for turn and I would be able to pressure him enough to deprive him of the opportunity to ever play the worship profitably, or find a processor in time. he got the land i hoped to fade and curved smasher into drowner, which I was ready for with my wrath. my wrath puts the worship back into his hand, and with 2 path in hand i know my line is to kill him before he draws scion producers. he draws skyspawner of course and that plus an noble and worship means his fortress is impenatrable. I get him to one and have to draw a zealous before he draws a bigger than 1 toughness guy or outright kills me, and he finds a drowner. g3 I curve relic into strangler (kills his displacer) into souls into blight herder, which is way more than his "low energy" reality smashers can swing into while I assainate him with the spirit of Gene Wilder (courtesy of RK Post)in the air.
Finals. Bant Eldrazi again. It was late so we split the finals, taking home 600 bucks cash and an invite each. Given that I was top seed coming in I got top billing
So I went 8-1 in matches, 16-4 in games. Deck is great, I have changed nothing since the event, even though I've played in a couple fnm-type events since (2-1 and 4-0). Ask me anything, except why Smasher is so much worse than Herder, I've beaten that poor ghoulsteed to life by now.
1st place and you beat valakut?!!? Even zoo? Those matchups can be very, very horrible. Congrads man!
thoper combo 1-2 I made a huge mistake this game and it cost me the win.
spirts 0-2 This matchup is really tough. It probably would of been better if my liliana, the last hope would of showed up.
Overall, I am liking the list that I currently have. I run a more mid-range version with only 2 counters mainbord. I am liking liliana of the veil mainboard instead of liliana, the last hope (she is in the side) because LOTV is more applicable to a broader field. Some decks just cannot beat a turn 1 discard, turn 2 discard, turn 3 liliana of the veil. And during the games that I played today LOTV was just better. The games didn't last long enough (or I didn't have a creature in my graveyard) for liliana, the last hope to shine. I am going to test her out some more and liliana, the last hope will definitely be in my 75.
I am still getting a feel for how the deck plays (I have only played 10-ish games with it now) but I am liking the singleton ranger of eos. I am at 3 delve creatures because having more than 1 in your hand is just bad. Since I run a more mid-range build, a single orzhov charm might be decent in this deck to buy-back the snapcasters and/or put the death's shadows back on the battlefield.
The deck did have some really powerful plays though. Turn 3 death's shadow + tasigur after a thoughtseize makes the opponents sigh.
1x island
1x swamp
1x hallowed fountain
2x watery grave
2x godless shrine
4x polluted delta
4x marsh flats
1x flooded strand
3x bloodstained mire
instants (12)
4x thought scour
2x stubborn denial
1x orzhov charm
2x fatal push
3x path to exile
2x inquisition of kozilek
4x thoughtseize
2x lingering souls
4x serum visions
planeswalkers (2)
1x liliana of the veil
1x liliana, the last hope
creatures (15)
4x death's shadow
3x snapcaster mage
4x street wraith
2x tasigur, the golden fang
2x gurmag angler
1x liliana of the veil
1x liliana, the last hope
1x damnation
2x collective brutality
1x disenchant
1x engineered explosives
1x anguished unmaking
1x esper charm
2x surgical extraction
2x geist of saint traft
2x stubborn denial
Quick note: I would cut 3 bloodstained mire if I had 3 more flooded strand.
My matches were:
UW control win 2-0
cards that preformed well: stubborn denial, thoughtseize
under-performing cards: none came up
notes: played against an inexperience pilot. tried not to over-extend myself by just playing one strong threat while keeping up stubborn denial for their planeswalkers (specifically elspeth, sun's champion) and have another strong threat in my hand. I was trying to play around wraiths.
UW control win 2-0
notes: played against a very experience pilot. game 2 I used snapcaster to target thoughseize in order to make my death's shadow big enough to swing for lethal. during game 2, I cast a thoughtsieze while holding 2x death's shadow, anguished unmaking, and a geist of saint traft. I see that his hand is filled with spot removal, supreme verdict, and a gideon. I take the verdict and land geist to close out the game. turn 5 he played gideon and thought he was safe, but anguished unmaking took care of him.
mill win 2-0
cards that preformed well: delve cards, stubborn denial, lingering souls
under-performing cards: none came up, I sided-out thought scour though
notes: game 1 on turn 2 I didn't stubborn denial glimpse the unthinkable and was able to play tasigur, the golden fang and gurmag angler on the same turn. He used ghost quarter on my lands and I ended the game with two creatures in play with no lands. game 2 was close but having snapcaster in hand with a full, spell-filled graveyard is a great way to control the game.
the esper deck with jace, obzedat, ghost council, goryo's vengeance, etc. win 2-0
cards that preformed well: stubborn denial, liliana, the last hope, surgical extraction, path to exile
under-performing cards: none came up
notes: this deck was fun to play against. I was able to control the game though a combination of thoughtseize, liliana, the last hope (lingering souls is a pain to deal with) and using surgical extraction on key cards (such as lingering souls). path to exile worked wonders against obzedat, ghost council.
Overall, the deck felt great to play. Stubborn denial was the best card all night and I wouldn't go less than 4 in the 75. I like the 2/2 split between the sideboard and main too. I played pretty conservative all night trying not to over-extend myself. I found that this deck is great at playing more of a control game while sticking one or two large threats and having one in reserve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_YohjfFfag
He discusses the deck here:
https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/modern-monday-bw-eldrazi/
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-shadow
Is getting delirium really such a problem that it warrents 4 thought scours? It seems like serum visions, liliana of the veil, Grim Flayer, or Architects of Will would be a better choice.
I presonaly like 3-4 marsh flats because they help with fatal push, thin our deck, and help with blood moon. Concealed Courtyard is great if your run a lot of discard, but is pretty disappointing mid game. I run a 3/4 split with flats/courtyard.
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is a great card, but has horrible synnergy with path and anguished. You are probably better off adding a single planeswalker (either liliana, the new gideon, etc.) to give your deck more depth and the ability to attack from different angles.
If you have a lot of blood moon at your LGS, you need to run 4 marsh flats.
Ponza is a complete nightmare. I have played against the deck 4 or 5 times and lost handley every time.
Valakut is also a nightmare, but not as bad as ponza.
The key against those decks is to disrupt them turn 1 (and hopefully turn 2 with tidehollow sculler) then apply as much pressure as possible. Your best play would be: turn 1 iok, turn 2 tidehollow, turn 3 reality smasher or thought-knot seer.
I would put more thoughtseize in your main deck (probably 4) and if you don't have them, put some appetite for brains (or even duress). Maybe even try out gideon of the trials. I figure that card would be decent against valakut.
I would also cut ratchet bomb from the mainboard. Unless you have a lot of wide creature decks at your LGS.
It's probably the one halfway down the page here:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gplv17/modern-last-chance-trial-undefeated-decklists-2017-06-17
Yeah, my bad! I think that I opened up the same deck in multiple tabs and didn't realize it!
The 10th place deck is running the eldrazi displacer and tidehollow sculler version that used to run!! Yay! I am a big fan of that deck. Eldrazi displacer has a lot of synergy with this deck with all of the enter the battlefield triggers and it can tap down the opponents board. Knight of glory is a really interesting choice and doesn't have synergy with lingering souls but is amazing with all of the fatal pushes and death's shadows running around.
The common theme between the decks that have placed well recently is that:
I just don't see how tidehollow sculler is any good right now! There are too many kolaghan's command and fatal pushs running around.
I think that it is weird to run 4 main deck relics and still have graveyard hate in the sideboard!
Other than that they:
4 relics and 4 Tormod's Crypt in the sideboard?!?!?!? Is the meta online that graveyard dependent?
Is Glory-Bound Initiate any good? The 3 power is no joke and drastically speeds up our clock. Does anybody have any experience with glory-bound in this deck? Glory-bound does fill out our lack of 2-drops.
Maybe cast out is a good fit for this deck? Cycling is decent and it takes care of karn, etc.
Twenty duals is correct according to Frank's math. I agree with you previously here.
I haven't played this deck for a few months (4 now??) since I just wanted to try out another deck. Plus, I felt that my bw eldrazi midrange brew was better but graveyard hate is amazing right now. I used to run tidehollow, then I hated him, then I loved him... it was not a healthy relationship. Against some decks, he is amazing. You can use him with eldrazi displacer to create a lock on the opponents draw step. The biggest drawback is that he dies to every single creature in the format and is not a great late game top-deck. He lead to a lot of games that were amazing, curving into tidehollow, hitting wasteland strangler, then thought-knot seer. But most games he would come down and I couldn't do anything to actaully stop the opponent.
I am glad that the bw processor deck is starting to get results. Joe's deck is just weird to me. Shriekmaw is an interesting addition and Mutavault is hands-down better than shambling vent. He had some really weird card choices:
I agree that ghost quarter is bad right now and it is just bad for this deck. Ghost quarter puts us back a turn, which is not something we want to do.
Fatal push pretty much made ghost quarter irrelevant anyways.
Topdeck's happen. That is one of the main problems with discard spells when compared to counter-magic --- you cannot stop a top-deck. With all the affinity, merfolk, junk running around your meta game you might want to up the sweepers to 2. Maybe try an engineered explosives if you have it. Or just put in an additional damnation, wrath of god, or day of judgment.
You could put a sweeper mainboard to have better game 1 matchups. I wouldn't recommend this for an unknown meta though.
Orzhov charm seems like it would be so great for this deck. You can buy-back snapcasters, bring back death's shadows from the graveyard, or kill a creature. However, people who have played it said that it hasn't been great. I haven't tried it yet though.
I found where CalebD started to play some esper shadow on twitch here.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/773189-ubx-tezzeret-agent-of-bolas-control
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/571123-modern-esper-draw-go
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/511682-blue-moon-ur-blood-moon-shackles-control
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/678769-uw-control
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/579970-buw-aggro-control-esper-midrange
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/221769-lantern-control
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/603567-grixis-control
There are many more decks. Tron is actually considered a control deck also.
UW or grixis (BUR) have been doing well recently.
1st place and you beat valakut?!!? Even zoo? Those matchups can be very, very horrible. Congrads man!
The two main deck collective brutality must be a nightmare for burn.
Overall, I am liking the list that I currently have. I run a more mid-range version with only 2 counters mainbord. I am liking liliana of the veil mainboard instead of liliana, the last hope (she is in the side) because LOTV is more applicable to a broader field. Some decks just cannot beat a turn 1 discard, turn 2 discard, turn 3 liliana of the veil. And during the games that I played today LOTV was just better. The games didn't last long enough (or I didn't have a creature in my graveyard) for liliana, the last hope to shine. I am going to test her out some more and liliana, the last hope will definitely be in my 75.
Here is my current decklist:
4 Death's Shadow
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Street Wraith
1 Ranger of Eos
Sorceries (12)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls
Instants (12)
3 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (19)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Collective Brutality
2 Countersquall
1 Damnation
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Esper Charm
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Lingering Souls
2 Surgical Extraction
I am still getting a feel for how the deck plays (I have only played 10-ish games with it now) but I am liking the singleton ranger of eos. I am at 3 delve creatures because having more than 1 in your hand is just bad. Since I run a more mid-range build, a single orzhov charm might be decent in this deck to buy-back the snapcasters and/or put the death's shadows back on the battlefield.
The deck did have some really powerful plays though. Turn 3 death's shadow + tasigur after a thoughtseize makes the opponents sigh.