Frankly, neither archetype nor meishin are that great.
They only beat out other enchantments in weird corner cases that frankly wont happen nearly enough to warrent their inclusion.
Ive already cut Meishin from my side board in favor of a Stoney silence.
i don't know, if Archetype of Imagination is really better than Meishin, because it's rather weak on its own.
sure, it's awesome, if you have Form of the Dragon + Dovescape, but it so is Meishin.
Without Dovescape, Archetype of Imagination has the Insert-Lightning-Bolt-Here-Sign on his head, because the opponent is finally able to get rid of some removal in his hand.
if you're worried about Emrakul, get Blood Moon on the table as soon as possible.
Perplexing Chimera is some kind of jack of all trades. it's good here and there, but it doesn't excel in anything. the Chimera could redirect Abrupt Decay, but it's so unreliable (maybe the opponent doesn't have a target to redirect to, maybe he doesn't play Decay at all).
i don't want to waste a precious enchantment slot with something, that's only maybe good.
Perplexing chimera can also nab creatures as theyre being cast right? Cause then you could deal with creature-based-enchantment-removal with it. But at that point its basically a one time use auramancy.
Side-note: I always side-out unlife vs tron in favor of just burying them in as many straight up hate cards as possible. Their only flyer is emrakuel. And thats if they run it. Sometimes steel hellkite, but I have yet to see one across the table from me.
And between bloodmoon AND nevermore emrakuel should never see the board, especially if you get one of em behind a dovescape.
In any case a turn 4 ideal on the play kills the tron player before they can muster 15 mana.
Or you cpuld just nab emrakuel with perplexing chimera for max disrespect =P
(Real talk: dont think the chimera is worth running)
where's the high permission in that list?
there are 4 remand and 1 detention sphere. the other 55 cards try to assemble the combo.
i wouldnt even call remand permission, its too tempo
my question is what's tolaria west grabbing outside of boseiju? lotus bloom? that's not something id like to suspend on turn 2/3. is the slow mana even worth having a tutor that only hits 1 land? i guess it hits mistveil too, but fetxhes are so much better at that job, and there's already 4 arid mesa.
and too a far lesser extent, why does this list run meishin MB? it's not about to come down early enough to stop infect, aside from that it makes melira damage combo harder. night of souls' betreyal would be a better option there.
My questions still stands though. What deck does this hose enough that would warrant a 4 CMC sideboard spot?
twin combo cant work off of exarch or pestermite
melira pod cant use viscera seer
snap caster, lavamancer, young pyro and his babies
bop/hierarch, lingering souls tokens
everything in infect (including their manland)
signal pests, vault skirge, memnite (the other blinkmoth), arcbound ravagers that havnt hit the board yet
all three soul sisters, and some other stuff from the deck
aven mindscensor and flickerwisp.
and plenty more
it doesnt "shut off" any single deck the way something like graffdiggers cage does, but there are very few decks that i wouldnt want it in play against. albeit 4cmc may very well be too late against infect and affinity, but if u have the accel to stick it fast enough it will probably win you the game
hello everybody, been tooling around with this deck for about 2-ish years now. (dont quote me on that, im terrible with time) but anywho, its nice to see other people using the wargate > lotus bloom, method to power out ideal. after the seething song ban alot of people seemed to just drop the deck for some reason.
i love the utopian sprawl idea from jessica, i've been using BoP this whole time, and while i havent had as much trouble with removal as one would expect, sprawl seems like such a superior choice.
archetype of imagination is interesting as well, but (with the exception of infect) unlife seems superior.
anyways, heres the list ive been using for some time now, im going to swap BoP's for sprawls as soon as i can get my hands on em.
been debating with myself on -1 pentad prism, +1 wargate. boseiju in the SB because its just slow mana and pain vs non blue decks.
pact of negation seems righteous to me for enduring ideal, after ideal is cast, you wont need mana for anything else. so paying for pact is fine. this makes it the perfect spell to force ideal through.
angel's grace is cute vs twin combos where they tap-out to get the kill. only for you to survive at 1 life. untap, and cast ideal grabbing unlife.
it's decent vs aggro too, so long as they arent holding burn. and it allows pact to be used without having to pay 3UU next upkeep.
Timely smacks aggro, and is never useless unless you're vs combo.
this makes for a weird game-1 that tends to have enough answers to any deck for reasonable a chance at winning, and plenty of favorable matchups against twin-based decks.
game-2 and 3 it turns into bant/5cc hate-enchantments.
No, leaving aside my stance that we need to keep the "standard filter" on the format.
If one wants to sneak new cards into modern this is not the way to do it. These sets are designed with legacy legality in mind.
As such, this would be the easiest way for me to see pernicious deed in modern. And trust me I would kill for that. But for every chaos warp we'd get, there'd be two scroll racks and brainstorms we'd have to ban.
If you really want to make modern into a watered down legacy rather than a beefed-up non-rotating standard. Then at least think it through a bit more. When all is said and done modern would end up with a ridiculous ban list.
Ask for a "modern core set", not whatever side set that has a handful of mouthwatering cards.
Edit: thinking about it, asking for this is damn near selfish. At least for those who prefer modern to legacy. We oft complain about never seeing many significant new cards due to standard's power level. If we suddenly have access to comm/plc, then legacy loses out on its "standard run-around"
I feel like this is where I should bring meloku into the conversation. Or is this too cute?
bit heavy on the cmc. unless we're talking more like a control deck than "cram little threats in early and try to geddon". which may be the right idea.
Ill be the first to say that turbofog, stax, viable LD, and mass hand destruction (8rack style) ought not to be the top contenders in a format. If they are it usually means theyve done their job tok quickly, and as a result there will be very little interaction between players.
This is A: not going to make 8rack esc decks the archetype to beat. And B: doesnt really encourage that in the first place.
Itll be used in 8 rack sure, but also just with ravens crime +lftl. Like worst case scenario throw some obstinate baloths in your SB, idk.
thoughts of ruin
Could it get there? Not even as some gimmicky LD deck, but just as a armageddon effect.
Like, just go hard dropping delvers n crap, then wipe the board of lands and just start bashing.
Drop a ghostly prison the turn before hand against aggro decks? Or maybe a kataki vs affinity/gargageddons borderposts.
Hell theres your curve. Goblin guide/delver/etc, kataki, ghostly prison, thoughts of ruin. Eh?
Course itd help to have some draw spells.
Idk, maybe itd just be an inferior restore balance... yeah it kinda feels like that...
I think Planar Void would be a pretty cool alternative to Leyline of the Void but wouldn't break modern. I think. They both have upsides and downsides, but what I like about Planar Void is that it's both graveyards, so Deathrites and Goyfs are useless if you drop Planar Void turn 1.
Do we really need more graveyard hate? I dont play a deck that uses any kind of grave-effect, nor do i even plan to, but i kinda feel bad for em as is.
Hell, even stuff that uses the graveyard as a resource often double as hate cards, namely deathrite shaman & scavenging ooze.
We're honestly more than set as far as graveyard hate goes. Like, there are plenty more cards that have the void effect and are playable, i just cant remember their names. Like that fox samurai for WW.
If anything modern could use more counter-grave hate
They only beat out other enchantments in weird corner cases that frankly wont happen nearly enough to warrent their inclusion.
Ive already cut Meishin from my side board in favor of a Stoney silence.
Perplexing chimera can also nab creatures as theyre being cast right? Cause then you could deal with creature-based-enchantment-removal with it. But at that point its basically a one time use auramancy.
Side-note: I always side-out unlife vs tron in favor of just burying them in as many straight up hate cards as possible. Their only flyer is emrakuel. And thats if they run it. Sometimes steel hellkite, but I have yet to see one across the table from me.
And between bloodmoon AND nevermore emrakuel should never see the board, especially if you get one of em behind a dovescape.
In any case a turn 4 ideal on the play kills the tron player before they can muster 15 mana.
Or you cpuld just nab emrakuel with perplexing chimera for max disrespect =P
(Real talk: dont think the chimera is worth running)
i wouldnt even call remand permission, its too tempo
my question is what's tolaria west grabbing outside of boseiju? lotus bloom? that's not something id like to suspend on turn 2/3. is the slow mana even worth having a tutor that only hits 1 land? i guess it hits mistveil too, but fetxhes are so much better at that job, and there's already 4 arid mesa.
and too a far lesser extent, why does this list run meishin MB? it's not about to come down early enough to stop infect, aside from that it makes melira damage combo harder. night of souls' betreyal would be a better option there.
auramancy is a trap, imo
this. how often would you rather have an ashiok than a liliana?
twin combo cant work off of exarch or pestermite
melira pod cant use viscera seer
snap caster, lavamancer, young pyro and his babies
bop/hierarch, lingering souls tokens
everything in infect (including their manland)
signal pests, vault skirge, memnite (the other blinkmoth), arcbound ravagers that havnt hit the board yet
all three soul sisters, and some other stuff from the deck
aven mindscensor and flickerwisp.
and plenty more
it doesnt "shut off" any single deck the way something like graffdiggers cage does, but there are very few decks that i wouldnt want it in play against. albeit 4cmc may very well be too late against infect and affinity, but if u have the accel to stick it fast enough it will probably win you the game
i love the utopian sprawl idea from jessica, i've been using BoP this whole time, and while i havent had as much trouble with removal as one would expect, sprawl seems like such a superior choice.
archetype of imagination is interesting as well, but (with the exception of infect) unlife seems superior.
anyways, heres the list ive been using for some time now, im going to swap BoP's for sprawls as soon as i can get my hands on em.
6 Forest
4 Island
4 Plains
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
Spells
1 Lotus bloom
2 Pact of Negation
2 Angel's Grace
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Pentad Prism
4 See Beyond
1 Detention Sphere
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Phyrexian Unlife
3 Timely Reinforcements
3 Wargate
1 Dovescape
4 Enduring Ideal
2 Form of the Dragon
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Pact of Negation
1 Angel's Grace
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Suppression Field
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Blood Moon
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Nevermore
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Meishin, The Mind Cage
been debating with myself on -1 pentad prism, +1 wargate. boseiju in the SB because its just slow mana and pain vs non blue decks.
pact of negation seems righteous to me for enduring ideal, after ideal is cast, you wont need mana for anything else. so paying for pact is fine. this makes it the perfect spell to force ideal through.
angel's grace is cute vs twin combos where they tap-out to get the kill. only for you to survive at 1 life. untap, and cast ideal grabbing unlife.
it's decent vs aggro too, so long as they arent holding burn. and it allows pact to be used without having to pay 3UU next upkeep.
Timely smacks aggro, and is never useless unless you're vs combo.
this makes for a weird game-1 that tends to have enough answers to any deck for reasonable a chance at winning, and plenty of favorable matchups against twin-based decks.
game-2 and 3 it turns into bant/5cc hate-enchantments.
Sure
im of the mind that well just have to wait untill all the fetches are reprinted en masse
Thanks!
As it stands it wont survive the turn it enters play, let alone your opponent's main phase.
Though I must say, I too am a fan of the gal
If one wants to sneak new cards into modern this is not the way to do it. These sets are designed with legacy legality in mind.
As such, this would be the easiest way for me to see pernicious deed in modern. And trust me I would kill for that. But for every chaos warp we'd get, there'd be two scroll racks and brainstorms we'd have to ban.
If you really want to make modern into a watered down legacy rather than a beefed-up non-rotating standard. Then at least think it through a bit more. When all is said and done modern would end up with a ridiculous ban list.
Ask for a "modern core set", not whatever side set that has a handful of mouthwatering cards.
Edit: thinking about it, asking for this is damn near selfish. At least for those who prefer modern to legacy. We oft complain about never seeing many significant new cards due to standard's power level. If we suddenly have access to comm/plc, then legacy loses out on its "standard run-around"
i thought that too, but then, why not just gargageddon? like, sure u can cast spells with cmc<3 but is that really enough of a pro?
bit heavy on the cmc. unless we're talking more like a control deck than "cram little threats in early and try to geddon". which may be the right idea.
This is A: not going to make 8rack esc decks the archetype to beat. And B: doesnt really encourage that in the first place.
Itll be used in 8 rack sure, but also just with ravens crime +lftl. Like worst case scenario throw some obstinate baloths in your SB, idk.
Could it get there? Not even as some gimmicky LD deck, but just as a armageddon effect.
Like, just go hard dropping delvers n crap, then wipe the board of lands and just start bashing.
Drop a ghostly prison the turn before hand against aggro decks? Or maybe a kataki vs affinity/gargageddons borderposts.
Hell theres your curve. Goblin guide/delver/etc, kataki, ghostly prison, thoughts of ruin. Eh?
Course itd help to have some draw spells.
Idk, maybe itd just be an inferior restore balance... yeah it kinda feels like that...
Do we really need more graveyard hate? I dont play a deck that uses any kind of grave-effect, nor do i even plan to, but i kinda feel bad for em as is.
Hell, even stuff that uses the graveyard as a resource often double as hate cards, namely deathrite shaman & scavenging ooze.
We're honestly more than set as far as graveyard hate goes. Like, there are plenty more cards that have the void effect and are playable, i just cant remember their names. Like that fox samurai for WW.
If anything modern could use more counter-grave hate