so if you give a lifelink creature double strike does that mean you gain life twice? As in two separate triggers for Ajani’s pridemate? So after first strike damage is dealt it gets a +1/+1 - then combat damage get another?
Assuming it actually deals damage and gives you life each time, yes.
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability
automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.
For the sake of definiteness, let's say that creature is a Healer's Hawk that has somehow been given double strike, and that it is unblocked. The combat steps would look like:
Your first combat damage step begins. You assign 1 damage from Healer's Hawk to opponent.
Healer's Hawk deals 1 damage to opponent, causing them to lose 1 life and you to gain 1 life. This triggers the ability of Ajani's Pridemate.
You would get priority, but there is a triggered ability to put on the stack. You put "Whenever you gain life, put a +1/+1 counter on Ajani's Pridemate." on the stack.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 3) resolves. You put a +1/+1 counter on Ajani's Pridemate.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
Your first combat damage step ends.
Your second combat damage step begins. You assign 1 damage from Healer's Hawk to opponent.
Healer's Hawk deals 1 damage to opponent, causing them to lose 1 life and you to gain 1 life. This triggers the ability of Ajani's Pridemate.
You would get priority, but there is a triggered ability to put on the stack. You put "Whenever you gain life, put a +1/+1 counter on Ajani's Pridemate." on the stack.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 12) resolves. You put a +1/+1 counter on Ajani's Pridemate.
Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet works like the first of those. I see no reason to expect Saw in Half to be different.
608.2h If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the
battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires
information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself, the effect uses the
current information of that object if it’s in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it’s no
longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect
uses the object’s last known information. See rule 113.7a. If an ability states that an object does
something, it’s the object as it exists—or as it most recently existed—that does it, not the
ability.
113.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source.
Destruction or removal of the source after that time won’t affect the ability. Note that some
abilities cause a source to do something (for example, “Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to
any target”) rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or
triggered ability that references information about the source for use while announcing an
activated ability or putting a triggered ability on the stack checks that information when the
ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both
instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it’s expected to be in at that time, its last known
information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
Join the Group doesn't have a target. Understood. But if I'm understanding correctly, when Join the Group resolves, it IS possible for me to choose the card that was returned to my hand as the legendary creature that I want to put into the command zone. So... you're saying that this works?
Yes.
"You may put a legendary creature card from your hand into the command zone. It’s also your commander."
There is no requirement that the card has been in your hand a certain amount of time. There is no requirement that it not be named "Champions of Archery" or that it not have an adventure.
Just to make sure that I understand what you're saying... I cast Doublecast, then cast Champions of Archery as an adventure. A copy of the adventure spell is put on the stack, and I choose Champions of Archery as the target for that copy of the spell.
Join the Group doesn't have a target. (Even if you could target the original card on the stack, it would be gone from there by the time the copy resolves. [CR400.7])
115.10. Spells and abilities can affect objects and players they don’t target. In general, those objects and
players aren’t chosen until the spell or ability resolves. See rule 608, “Resolving Spells and
Abilities.”
115.10a Just because an object or player is being affected by a spell or ability doesn’t make that
object or player a target of that spell or ability. Unless that object or player is identified by the
word “target” in the text of that spell or ability, or the rule for that keyword ability, it’s not a
target.
I then cast Remand, which counters the original adventure spell and puts Champions of Archery back into my hand. Now Champions of Archery is in my hand, and I let the copy of the adventure spell which is on the stack resolve. The target of that copy of the original spell is Champions of Archery, which is put into the command zone from my hand. Is that the idea?
At that time you choose a legendary creature card in your hand as part of the instructions of the resolving spell. And the one you choose can be the card that recently returned to your hand.
608. Resolving Spells and Abilities
608.2d If an effect of a spell or ability offers any choices other than choices already made as part of
casting the spell, activating the ability, or otherwise putting the spell or ability on the stack, the
player announces these while applying the effect. The player can’t choose an option that’s
illegal or impossible, with the exception that having a library with no cards in it doesn’t make
drawing a card an impossible action (see rule 121.3). If an effect divides or distributes
something, such as damage or counters, as a player chooses among any number of untargeted
players and/or objects, the player chooses the amount and division such that each chosen player
or object receives at least one of whatever is being divided. (Note that if an effect divides or
distributes something, such as damage or counters, as a player chooses among some number of
target objects and/or players, the amount and division were determined as the spell or ability
was put onto the stack rather than at this time; see rule 601.2d.)
716.4. In every zone except the stack, and while on the stack not as an Adventure, an adventurer card
has only its normal characteristics.
Panoptic Mirror's ability can only exile an instant or sorcery card, not a Legendary Creature - Human Archer.
Also, using something like Pull From Eternity or Riftsweeper to retrieve a card from exile will mean that card is no longer "exiled". (A copy already on the stack will remain on the stack and probably resolve soon.)
607.2a If an object has an activated or triggered ability printed on it that instructs a player to exile
one or more cards and an ability printed on it that refers either to “the exiled cards” or to cards
“exiled with [this object],” these abilities are linked. The second ability refers only to cards in
the exile zone that were put there as a result of an instruction to exile them in the first ability.
You would probably have to do something like cast it as an adventure, copy it somehow, return the original to your hand with something like Remand, and then let the copy resolve.
In conclusion, Ramos is not a green creature, but in commander games his color identity could be considered green, if he is my commander.
In commander games, its color identify is white, blue, black, red, and green, regardless of whether or not that card is the commander. If it is not the commander, the actual commander will need to have all those colors in its color identity [CR 903.5c].
Also for cards that are double-faced, like Archangel Avacyn , is he considered a red and white creature?
No. While the front face is up, the color is only white. While the back face is up, the color is only red. [CR 202.2-202.2f]
712.4c While a transforming double-faced permanent has its front face up, it has only the
characteristics of its front face.
712.4d While a transforming double-faced permanent has its back face up, it has only the
characteristics of its back face. However, its mana value is calculated using the mana cost of its
front face. If a permanent is copying the back face of a transforming double-faced card (even if
the card representing that copy is itself a double-faced card), the mana value of that permanent
is 0.
Avacyn's color identity is white and red, but color identity only matters for commander deck legality and for cards like Command Tower (if it is the commander).
903.5c A card can be included in a Commander deck only if every color in its color identity is also
found in the color identity of the deck’s commander.
Magus of the order is on the field and activate his ability, can I call or bring Ramos, Dragon Engine according to his ability?
No, because Ramos is not a green creature card.
202.2. An object is the color or colors of the mana symbols in its mana cost, regardless of the color of
its frame.
202.2a The five colors are white, blue, black, red, and green. The white mana symbol is represented
by W, blue by U, black by B, red by R, and green by G.
Example: An object with a mana cost of 2W is white, an object with a mana cost of 2
is colorless, and one with a mana cost of 2WB is both white and black.
202.2b Objects with no colored mana symbols in their mana costs are colorless.
202.2c An object with two or more different colored mana symbols in its mana cost is each of the
colors of those mana symbols. Most multicolored cards are printed with a gold frame, but this is
not a requirement for a card to be multicolored.
202.2d An object with one or more hybrid mana symbols and/or Phyrexian mana symbols in its
mana cost is all of the colors of those mana symbols, in addition to any other colors the object
might be. (Most cards with hybrid mana symbols in their mana costs are printed in a two-tone
frame. See rule 107.4e.)
202.2e An object may have a color indicator printed to the left of the type line. That object is each
color denoted by that color indicator. (See rule 204.)
202.2f Effects may change an object’s color, give a color to a colorless object, or make a colored
object become colorless; see rule 105.3.
Since it is considered a green creature or what does the identity of color mean?
It is not considered a green creature (unless it has been hit by something like Lifelace after being cast or otherwise brought out). Color identity is a concept from Commander games. It is used only for deck building and for a few cards that explicitly reference it, e.g., Command Tower's "T: Add one mana of any color in your commander's color identity.". Magus of the Order's ability has nothing to do with color identity.
903.4. The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a
certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that
card’s mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see
rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).
Example: Bosh, Iron Golem is a legendary artifact creature with mana cost 8 and the
ability “3R, Sacrifice an artifact: Bosh, Iron Golem deals damage equal to the
sacrificed artifact’s mana value to any target.” Bosh’s color identity is red.
As noted by other responses, these will all assume that Lathril has been under that player's control long enough to make "summoning sickness" a non-issue. In each case, I'll assume that this happens during the upkeep of Lathril's owner / controller for the sake of definiteness; happening on a different turn or phase will only mean minor modification to the description.
Lathril was destroyed: its ability was activated as a response
If that "destroy" is a spell or ability, Lathril's ability is a perfectly valid response.
AP's upkeep step begins.
AP gets priority and passes.
NAP casts Putrefy, chooses Lathril as the target, and pays the cost using 1BR obtained in an unspecified way.
NAP gets priority and passes.
AP gets priority and activates Lathril's "T, Tap ten untapped Elves you control: Each opponent loses 10 life and you gain 10 life." AP pays the cost by tapping Lathril and ten other Elves.
AP gets priority and passes.
NAP gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability activated in step 5) resolves. AP gains 10 life and each opponent loses 10 life.
AP gets priority and passes.
NAP gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 3) resolves. Lathril is destroyed and goes to AP's graveyard. Putrefy goes to NAP's graveyard.
AP would get priority, but there is a state-based action to process. AP puts Lathril in his command zone.
Ability was activated: Lathril was destroyed as a response
AP's upkeep step begins.
AP gets priority and activates Lathril's "T, Tap ten untapped Elves you control: Each opponent loses 10 life and you gain 10 life." AP pays the cost by tapping Lathril and ten other Elves.
AP gets priority and passes.
NAP casts Putrefy, chooses Lathril as the target, and pays the cost using 1BR obtained in an unspecified way.
NAP gets priority and passes.
AP gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 4) resolves. Lathril is destroyed and goes to AP's graveyard. Putrefy goes to NAP's graveyard.
AP would get priority, but there is a state-based action to process. AP puts Lathril in his command zone.
AP gets priority and passes.
NAP gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability activated in step 2) resolves. AP gains 10 life and each opponent loses 10 life.
113.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source.
Destruction or removal of the source after that time won’t affect the ability. Note that some
abilities cause a source to do something (for example, “Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to
any target”) rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or
triggered ability that references information about the source for use while announcing an
activated ability or putting a triggered ability on the stack checks that information when the
ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both
instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it’s expected to be in at that time, its last known
information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
Lathril was forced to tap by an instant, ability activated as response
Remember that something like You See a Guard Approach or the ability of Icebind Pillar needs to resolve before it has any effect. Also remember that activation costs are paid while activating an ability, not while resolving it.
AP's upkeep step begins.
AP gets priority and passes.
NAP casts You See a Guard Approach, chooses Distract the Guard as the mode and Lathril as the target, and pays the cost using U obtained in an unspecified way.
NAP gets priority and passes.
AP gets priority and activates Lathril's "T, Tap ten untapped Elves you control: Each opponent loses 10 life and you gain 10 life." AP pays the cost by tapping Lathril and ten other Elves.
AP gets priority and passes.
NAP gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability activated in step 5) resolves. AP gains 10 life and each opponent loses 10 life.
AP gets priority and passes.
NAP gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 3) resolves. Nothing happens because Lathril has been tapped since step 5. You See a Guard Approach goes to NAP's graveyard.
Ability activated, Lathril was forced to tap as a response
AP's upkeep step begins.
AP gets priority and activates Lathril's "T, Tap ten untapped Elves you control: Each opponent loses 10 life and you gain 10 life." AP pays the cost by tapping Lathril and ten other Elves.
AP gets priority and passes.
NAP casts You See a Guard Approach, chooses Distract the Guard as the mode and Lathril as the target, and pays the cost using U obtained in an unspecified way.
NAP gets priority and passes.
AP gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 4) resolves. Nothing happens because Lathril has been tapped since step 2. You See a Guard Approach goes to NAP's graveyard.
AP gets priority and passes.
NAP gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability activated in step 2) resolves. AP gains 10 life and each opponent loses 10 life.
Grolnok, the Omnivore has an ability that reads, "Whenever a Frog you control attacks, mill three cards." Does this mean that, if I attack with three frogs, I mill nine cards? Or do I mill only three cards regardless of how many of my frogs are attacking at the same time?
It will trigger three times, and you will mill three cards for each resolution.
603.2c An ability triggers only once each time its trigger event occurs. However, it can trigger
repeatedly if one event contains multiple occurrences.
Example: A permanent has an ability whose trigger condition reads, “Whenever a land
is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . .” If someone casts a spell that destroys
all lands, the ability will trigger once for each land put into the graveyard during the
spell’s resolution.
Also, when lands are milled by Grolnok's ability, they do hit the graveyard before being exiled, right? If The Gitrog Monster is in play when a land is milled by Grolnok, do I get to draw a card?
Each land card milled will trigger both Grolnok's "Whenever a permanent card is put into your graveyard from your library, exile it with a croak counter on it." and The Gitrog Monster's "Whenever one or more land cards are put into your graveyard from anywhere, draw a card." You will choose the order in which those (and any other triggered abilities you control) are put on the stack, from which they will eventually resolve.
If I forkgrapeshot, does the copy from fork have storm
Yes, it's a complete copy.
707.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s
characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode,
targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The
copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name,
mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or
loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters the
battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set
additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status,
and counters are not copied.
707.2a A copy acquires the color of the object it’s copying because that value is derived from its
mana cost or color indicator. A copy acquires the abilities of the object it’s copying because
those values are derived from its rules text. A copy doesn’t wind up with two values of each
ability (that is, it doesn’t copy the object’s abilities and its rules text, then have that rules text
define a new set of abilities).
No, because storm on the copy doesn't trigger, nor will the copy be counted for any later spells with storm.
702.40. Storm
702.40a Storm is a triggered ability that functions on the stack. “Storm” means “When you cast this
spell, copy it for each other spell that was cast before it this turn. If the spell has any targets, you
may choose new targets for any of the copies.”
707.10. To copy a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a
copy of a spell isn’t cast and a copy of an activated ability isn’t activated. A copy of a spell or
ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including
modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs. (See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”)
Choices that are normally made on resolution are not copied. If an effect of the copy refers to
objects used to pay its costs, it uses the objects used to pay the costs of the original spell or ability.
A copy of a spell is owned by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a
spell or ability is controlled by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a
spell is itself a spell, even though it has no spell card associated with it. A copy of an ability is itself
an ability.
Yes, that is absolutely possible. AP gets priority when that crew ability resolves, and can use it to cast a spell (e.g., Lightning Bolt) or activate an ability.
500.2. A phase or step in which players receive priority ends when the stack is empty and all players
pass in succession. Simply having the stack become empty doesn’t cause such a phase or step to
end; all players have to pass in succession with the stack empty. Because of this, each player gets a
chance to add new things to the stack before that phase or step ends.
I also have a question about Generous Patron, Does Agitator ant's ability count for truggering Generous Patron's second ability? or it doesn't trigger even though i control the ability because the opponent is the one puting the counters?
It doesn't trigger. Generous Patron's ability doesn't care about who controls the spell or ability, just who is putting the counter on the permanent.
702.145c Any time a player controls a permanent that is front face up with daybound and it’s night,
that player transforms that permanent. This happens immediately and isn’t a state-based action.
702.145f Any time a player controls a permanent that is back face up with nightbound and it’s day,
that player transforms that permanent. This happens immediately and isn’t a state-based action.
It's still copying a Brutal Cathar, so it still has daybound rather than nightbound, so rule 702.145f won't transform it. And since the actual card is still back face up, another transition to night shouldn't do anything with rule 702.145c (just like it didn't continue to churn after that first transformation).
A lot of corner cases here, and I almost posted the wrong answer to the first one because I initially didn't realize that Mirrorhall Mimic is a DFC. (I used the Salvation pages rather than my usual habit of the Gatherer pages, and Gatherer makes DFCs a bit more obvious.)
Yes. It transformed, and the Ghastly Mimicry on the other side was still overridden by the name and other characteristics of the Brutal Cathar.
701.28e Some triggered abilities trigger when an object “transforms into” an object with a specified
characteristic. Such an ability triggers if the object transforms and has the specified
characteristic immediately after it transforms.
That's what it says, that's what it does.
Assuming it actually deals damage and gives you life each time, yes.
For the sake of definiteness, let's say that creature is a Healer's Hawk that has somehow been given double strike, and that it is unblocked. The combat steps would look like:
Yes.
"You may put a legendary creature card from your hand into the command zone. It’s also your commander."
There is no requirement that the card has been in your hand a certain amount of time. There is no requirement that it not be named "Champions of Archery" or that it not have an adventure.
Join the Group doesn't have a target. (Even if you could target the original card on the stack, it would be gone from there by the time the copy resolves. [CR400.7])
At that time you choose a legendary creature card in your hand as part of the instructions of the resolving spell. And the one you choose can be the card that recently returned to your hand.
No.
Panoptic Mirror's ability can only exile an instant or sorcery card, not a Legendary Creature - Human Archer.
Also, using something like Pull From Eternity or Riftsweeper to retrieve a card from exile will mean that card is no longer "exiled". (A copy already on the stack will remain on the stack and probably resolve soon.)
You would probably have to do something like cast it as an adventure, copy it somehow, return the original to your hand with something like Remand, and then let the copy resolve.
In commander games, its color identify is white, blue, black, red, and green, regardless of whether or not that card is the commander. If it is not the commander, the actual commander will need to have all those colors in its color identity [CR 903.5c].
No. While the front face is up, the color is only white. While the back face is up, the color is only red. [CR 202.2-202.2f]
Avacyn's color identity is white and red, but color identity only matters for commander deck legality and for cards like Command Tower (if it is the commander).
[c]Ramos, Dragon Engine[/c] -> Ramos, Dragon Engine
No, because Ramos is not a green creature card.
It is not considered a green creature (unless it has been hit by something like Lifelace after being cast or otherwise brought out). Color identity is a concept from Commander games. It is used only for deck building and for a few cards that explicitly reference it, e.g., Command Tower's "T: Add one mana of any color in your commander's color identity.". Magus of the Order's ability has nothing to do with color identity.
If that "destroy" is a spell or ability, Lathril's ability is a perfectly valid response.
Remember that something like You See a Guard Approach or the ability of Icebind Pillar needs to resolve before it has any effect. Also remember that activation costs are paid while activating an ability, not while resolving it.
It will trigger three times, and you will mill three cards for each resolution.
Each land card milled will trigger both Grolnok's "Whenever a permanent card is put into your graveyard from your library, exile it with a croak counter on it." and The Gitrog Monster's "Whenever one or more land cards are put into your graveyard from anywhere, draw a card." You will choose the order in which those (and any other triggered abilities you control) are put on the stack, from which they will eventually resolve.
Yes, it's a complete copy.
No, because storm on the copy doesn't trigger, nor will the copy be counted for any later spells with storm.
It doesn't trigger. Generous Patron's ability doesn't care about who controls the spell or ability, just who is putting the counter on the permanent.
It's still copying a Brutal Cathar, so it still has daybound rather than nightbound, so rule 702.145f won't transform it. And since the actual card is still back face up, another transition to night shouldn't do anything with rule 702.145c (just like it didn't continue to churn after that first transformation).
A lot of corner cases here, and I almost posted the wrong answer to the first one because I initially didn't realize that Mirrorhall Mimic is a DFC. (I used the Salvation pages rather than my usual habit of the Gatherer pages, and Gatherer makes DFCs a bit more obvious.)