Yeah it seems absolutely bizarre to completely remove Twin from the format instead of nerfing it by banning Exarch while saying you don't want to kill Eldrazi, which makes Twin look like the most laughably underpowered banned deck of all time
Forsythe is secretly Ugin.
He's clearly worried that killing off Eldrazi would have dire implications for the future of the format (read: propping up the "ban the best deck until it's unplayable" tinfoil hat theory).
And by dire implications, you mean Oath packs not being bought, right?
I think its UTTER bull***** to not destroy this deck. If you couldnt let Twin live, then get real if we have 6/6 UW Eldrazi in the final across 3 GLOBAL GP's.
Inexcusable.
I agree. It was certainly possible to bring Pod and Twin down to an acceptable level without killing them. The fact that Wizards wants to keep Eldrazi alive, despite the fact that it is responsible for much more nonsense than either of those two decks, does indicate a bias.
This isn't exactly the thread to argue it, but there's no way to keep pod 100% in check. One creature that's costed improperly and is a little too powerful ends up just letting pod go over the top. I loved playing pod, but it was just too easy to end up abusing Birthing Pod more than usual.
I completely agree though, there's no way they should let Eldrazi live if we're looking at their past decisions. Both Treasure Cruise and Dig were banned, dig only because the people who were playing cruise would just go play dig which neutered delver as a deck. Pod is an interesting case as they killed it and then printed CoCo which has since given it a very different feel, but it's still sort of similar. Twin is still bull as there's no one in their right mind who thinks Kiki-Jiki is a suitable replacement in that deck. Sure it's technically possible, but so are a lot of things you just shouldn't do.
It's better to nuke Eldrazi by banning both Eye and Temple than ban one and see the deck still survive at a similar, albeit, weaker level of domination of this format.
They obviously need to test cards that are being created for the possibility that they break the modern metagame. As much as they say that it would be nowhere near cost effective, just giving it a few minutes like thinking about what Ancestral Recall with a delve cost or undercosted tribal creatures that definitely have more than one tribal land to make them much cheaper could do to impact the format. I'm not saying they need to scour gatherer for every single interaction, but they need to do their due diligence and at least think before they print something like what we've seen in the last few years. Think about popular mechanics that are used in the format, popular strategies, and at least give some thought into new cards being able to synergize with some of these existing strategies and mechanics.
Saying that they'd actually give this some honest effort would have at least made me somewhat hopeful that it might not happen again, but of course they won't.
I don't think anything that Aaron Forsythe would have said would have been enough for the community, but that definitely was not enough. I didn't hear any sort of solution or idea of a solution to take care of the format other than, "Eh, maybe we'll ban a card out of the Eldrazi deck". Sure we don't know the whole story, and we definitely haven't heard every conversation that he had with players at the GP, but this just wasn't enough. I'm looking for answers and solutions to make sure this does not happen again, not an explanation that Wizards is going through the motions and will fix this problem this time.
[quote from="Spsiegel1987 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/675980-modern-grand-prix-weekend-2016-bologna-detroit-and?comment=104"]
And whe you're already mentioned Randy Bueler he's the worst commentator ever and has absolutely now idea what is good for Modern and what not and his senseless quotes about Eldrazi only confirms that he has no clue what he's talking about.
My favorite Randy quote of all time in the finals of a standard GP maybe a year ago at most:
Brian David-Marshall says he will interview Aaron Forsythe tomorrow.
Well, I'm guessing he's not going to run Forsythe through the ringer since coverage is bought and paid for by Wizards, but at least there might be something of an admission of a mistake, no matter how much they'll probably downplay it.
I think the format would be well-designed if Tier 1 consisted of Jund, Abzan, Burn, Twin, Affinity, Infect, Jeskai Control, and a random smattering of combo decks.
add Tron to that list and I would be in complete agreement. The problem here is that it's very similar to what we just had, and will never have again due to hubris.
To put it simply, ban eye, kill another deck and take inevitability away from another. It's not like tier 1 decks are safe or anything. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I see no good coming from a ban. That's not to say that I don't want a ban, but that's probably because I don't trust the decision makers to make the correct decision.
I'll send Aaron Forsythe a tweet reminding him about how big of a mess the Pro Tour was, but really I'm just going to lay low. I'll hang out and play a shop event or two, but there's no way I'm playing any bigger events. There's no way I'm wasting the limited amount of disposable income that I have to play a format that is allowing things like this to happen. I barely show up anymore since they banned Twin anyway, so it's not much of a change.
I only get to play modern every other week or so due to scheduling and the fact that our stores in the area don't work together to do scheduling so every store does modern on the same Friday. I wish I had more time to play, but my schedule just doesn't allow it too much. It sucks because I just got my set of goyfs too so I haven't got to jam games with TarmoTwin as much as I'd like to.
I run a similar deck, and I've always been adamant that two out of your three win cons need to be in the main, while one needs to be in the side in case the match up doesn't work for it. I've always liked Obzedat in the side because matchups that can get rid of him with instant speed mean he's usually a dead card after he drops. Also, you really want a read the bones in there for an Underworld Connections. Underworld is a great card, and will win you games in some matchups, but sometimes it's just dead and a Read the Bones in its place would do wonders.
I run something very similar to this list, modified for my meta, but it's still very close.
Coming from someone who's been trying to make this deck work for a good couple of weeks, your list puzzles me. You simply don't have an outright wincon, not even the one copy of aetherling that just about every control deck runs. Also, I'm curious on why you don't want to run Jace AoT. I've had okay results with my Dimir control deck, but it's still not where I want it. It just doesn't have a good shot to win every game. Anyway, I'll post my list for anyone wanting to compare.
x4 Watery Grave
x4 Temple of Deceit
x1 Dimir Guildgate
x1 Temple of Mystery
x9 Island
x7 Swamp
People have been trying to build this deck since Phenax was spoiled, myself included. It obviously isn't going to be a Tier 1 deck, but there's quite a bit of playability in it. Most are going for a MBD shell with added walls, a bit more spot removal and Jace, Memory Adept. My real problem with the deck is that it needs two real win cons, and milling with walls to block really isn't that strong of a win con. There are games where you're simply not going to have enough walls, or you'll have too many walls and not enough removal. Personally I'm excited to win with it, if I go 2-2 I'll be happy as it's a deck that no one else has played at my LGS. Just keep that in mind as you're building I guess, and there are a few threads around since BNTG came out around here somewhere with a couple of interesting decklists. A lot of people are thinking it might go BUG soon enough and might be a bit more powerful.
Either that or we call it Kurt Russell because of The Thing. I've heard both from friends and can't tell which one I like better.
And by dire implications, you mean Oath packs not being bought, right?
This isn't exactly the thread to argue it, but there's no way to keep pod 100% in check. One creature that's costed improperly and is a little too powerful ends up just letting pod go over the top. I loved playing pod, but it was just too easy to end up abusing Birthing Pod more than usual.
I completely agree though, there's no way they should let Eldrazi live if we're looking at their past decisions. Both Treasure Cruise and Dig were banned, dig only because the people who were playing cruise would just go play dig which neutered delver as a deck. Pod is an interesting case as they killed it and then printed CoCo which has since given it a very different feel, but it's still sort of similar. Twin is still bull as there's no one in their right mind who thinks Kiki-Jiki is a suitable replacement in that deck. Sure it's technically possible, but so are a lot of things you just shouldn't do.
It's better to nuke Eldrazi by banning both Eye and Temple than ban one and see the deck still survive at a similar, albeit, weaker level of domination of this format.
Saying that they'd actually give this some honest effort would have at least made me somewhat hopeful that it might not happen again, but of course they won't.
U/W Eldrazi vs. G/R Eldrazi. Aaaaand we're back to your regularly scheduled programming.
My favorite Randy quote of all time in the finals of a standard GP maybe a year ago at most:
"Siege Rhino is good."
That insight...
Well, I'm guessing he's not going to run Forsythe through the ringer since coverage is bought and paid for by Wizards, but at least there might be something of an admission of a mistake, no matter how much they'll probably downplay it.
add Tron to that list and I would be in complete agreement. The problem here is that it's very similar to what we just had, and will never have again due to hubris.
To put it simply, ban eye, kill another deck and take inevitability away from another. It's not like tier 1 decks are safe or anything. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I see no good coming from a ban. That's not to say that I don't want a ban, but that's probably because I don't trust the decision makers to make the correct decision.
I run something very similar to this list, modified for my meta, but it's still very close.
http://themeadery.org/articles/winners-circle-peter-shmanka-wins-minneapolis-ptq
x4 Watery Grave
x4 Temple of Deceit
x1 Dimir Guildgate
x1 Temple of Mystery
x9 Island
x7 Swamp
x4 Jace, Architect of Thought
x3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
x3 Omenspeaker
x2 Aetherling
x2 Thoughtseize
x2 Essence Scatter
x3 Devour Flesh
x1 Syncopate
x4 Psychic Strike
x2 Dissolve
x4 Hero's Downfall
x2 Far // Away
x2 Opportunity
Sideboard:
x1 Pithing Needle
x1 Elixir of Immortality
x3 Duress
x3 Gainsay
x2 Negate
x2 Bile Blight
x2 Master of Waves
x1 Jace, Memory Adept