You make a lot of great points and I agree with just about all of it (and was thinking much of it when I started writing this). It's about the strategy and the colors more than the general itself.
Making and maintaining a list like this is tedious and I can't expect everyone or anyone to agree with it. Some time I'll change the list to reflect strategies instead, but it will be more work than it's worth and, truth be told, I made it mostly for my own reference.
Thanks for your suggestions!
- DigitalFire
- Registered User
-
Member for 10 years, 3 months, and 1 day
Last active Tue, Mar, 30 2021 01:17:08
- 1 Follower
- 854 Total Posts
- 142 Thanks
-
Apr 20, 2014DigitalFire posted a message on Commander Tier ListThe term is not unique to commander or mtg, it just means God tier. Essentially a smaller, more elite tier that rise above the rest.Posted in: DigitalFire
- To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
However, I'm excited and hopeful as Nexus continues to improve
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Luminarch Ascension
1x Monastery Mentor
1x Restoration Angel
1x Sun Titan
Blue
1x Curse of the Swine
1x Mystic Remora
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Temporal Mastery
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
Black
1x Bolas's Citadel
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1x Waste Not
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Commune with Lava
1x Decree of Annihilation
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Past in Flames
1x Wheel of Fortune
Green (Aka Pod Colors)
1x Birthing Pod
1x Life from the Loam
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
Multicolor
1x Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
1x Mnemonic Betrayal
1x Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God
1x Prime Speaker Vannifar
1x Soulfire Grand Master
1x Isochron Scepter
1x Painter's Servant
1x Skullclamp
1x The Chain Veil
1x Walking Ballista
Land
1x Alchemist's Refuge
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Waterlogged Grove
Firstly, combos are easier, faster, more available, and more resilient nowadays. That's just going to happen as you print more cards. But would I say combo is more prevalent? No. I don't think so at all. If people are going down the combo route now, they would have done so before. Arms race was happening in my playgroup in 2011, it's the natural progression of things. Why is Sheldon talking about it now? Because he's starting to actually play EDH with people outside his niche and realizing that a large percentage of people don't play the game the way he does. Immediately after, he started the Commander Advisory Group as a way to combat being so out of the loop.
So how do we take combo down a peg?
The life total should not change, but even if it did, that won't stop combo;
Ring/Crypt should be banned but that won't stop combo;
I don't personally condone banning any tutors, but even if some were, that won't stop combo; and
I actually agree with MRHBlue that there are too many combos of comparable power to warrant banning any of them.
Not only is there no way to stop combo from being the best way to kill a table, but arms race is inevitable (barring a discussion about power level that brings everyone to absolute agreement, something I consider almost impossible considering most people want different things out of this game).
And to derail some more: blue is the strongest color, followed by green and a very close black, then white, then a distant red (however for mono color decks, white is the worst)
Actually I am too, haha. Maybe spiteful would have been a better word choice. Vengeful really ain't so bad
Let me ask you something. Are these people actively trying to make sure you're not having fun? Or are they just playing a different sort of game than you're used to? Ideally this group should be saying something along the lines of "Hey Gashnaw, I see that your deck is having trouble keeping up. Can I either loan you a deck or make some suggestions for yours?" But even if they're not offering help, that doesn't mean their intentions are bad. Meanwhile, your intentions ARE bad. And those intentions may not even work. You may get to that table with a super tuned stax deck and these cEDH players may think to themselves "Nice! More competition that will help me improve my deck and my play versus other strategies!" I know that's how I would feel. If you would like to bring a deck like this to the table and join in on their fun, ThrasTymna Scepter is indeed the best deck in the format. Urza, Najeela, and FC Sliver are great recommendations, and MetaPod is a good way to shake up a competitive scene.
However if this group is not offering help, and they're not just playing their game, but rather they are actively trying to make sure you are not having fun (as you wish to do to them), I would recommend having an adult conversation. There were two people in my college playgroup that didn't appreciate me winning as often as I did and so they would throw the book at me. They would never win, but rather use up all their removal on my things until they lost. This is ill-willed, against the spirit of edh, and against the spirit of friendly competition. Simply put, that behavior is childish. Does it suck that your playgroup is playing a different version of edh than you? Yes, but it's no different than your friends switching to Standard, or moving to a new city without a good Magic scene like I did. It sucks and, barring a conversation about power level where you all come to an agreement, or loaning them some of your low-powered decks, it's not going to change. And I get it. And I'm sorry.
But trying to prevent people from having fun is just vengeful. We're all better than that.
Cuts:
Glass cannon: Generator Servant, Sakura-Tribe Scout, Squandered Resources
MLD (only want 2): Wildfire, Obliterate
Kiki Package: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Zealous Conscripts, Phyrexian Delver, Survival of the Fittest, Tooth and Nail
Misc: Dark Petition, Diabolic Tutor, Magus of the Moon
Added:
Control: Manglehorn, Price of Glory, Oppression, Constant Mists, Veil of Summer
Lands + Graveyard: Ramunap Excavator, Wrenn and Six, Entomb, Dakmor Salvage, Splendid Reclamation
Value: Exploration, Sylvan Scrying, Nissa, Vital Force
Win con: Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Bolas's Citadel, Sensei's Divining Top, Aetherflux Reservoir
Obliterate is a pretty good option! Probably the best besides my go-to, cycling Decree of Annihilation which is also uncounterable (though stifle-able). I think I'll put Obliterate in for Epicenter. I rarely have Threshold on turn 3-5 but I can usually get 8 mana in that time frame.
I always try to mulligan to mana dorks, and if I have Magus in hand I'll fetch basics before dropping him. However he's still a bummer when I want to be reusing fetches so I may end up cutting it. On Chasm, I have yet to play this deck in a meta with cheap aggressive creatures, but I think Glacial Chasm would be fantastic tech in that case.
Evolution Sage seems awesome, Windgrace's -3 becomes a -1, and if at least one of those is a fetchland it becomes a 0! I like the other proliferate cards you mentioned too, but I would probably only add them if I slotted in more planeswalkers. I've actually never ultimate'd Windgrace, and the opportunities where that seems like the right thing to do are pretty rare. He's just there to keep myself ahead on mana and card draw. I wouldn't mind activating him more often though, maybe The Chain Veil...
(R/G)B Worldfire Windgrace B(R/G)
This first decklist is the more casual, dredge oriented list. It's a copy from my tappedout version.
Creature (23)
1 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Elvish Reclaimer
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Orcish Lumberjack
2 Bloom Tender
2 Lotus Cobra
2 Vexing Shusher
3 Eternal Witness
3 Imperial Recruiter
3 Ramunap Excavator
3 Tireless Tracker
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 World Shaper
5 The Gitrog Monster
5 Titania, Protector of Argoth
5 Underrealm Lich
6 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
7 Omnath, Locus of Rage
8 Borborygmos Enraged
Instant (9)
1 Crop Rotation
1 Entomb
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Grisly Salvage
3 Fire Covenant
4 Realms Uncharted
5 Windgrace's Judgment
0 Mox Diamond
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
Sorcery (20)
1 Faithless Looting
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vandalblast
1x Green Sun's Zenith
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Life from the Loam
2 Regrowth
2 Sylvan Scrying
2x Tectonic Break
2x Torment of Hailfire
3 Buried Alive
3 Grim Tutor
3 Toxic Deluge
3 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Past in Flames
4 Scapeshift
4 Splendid Reclamation
5 Hour of Promise
7 Decree of Annihilation
Enchantment (4)
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Exploration
2 Survival of the Fittest
2 Sylvan Library
Planeswalker (3)
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Nissa, Vital Force
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
Land (37)
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Mana Confluence
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Badlands
1x Taiga
1x Bayou
1x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Luxury Suite
1x Nurturing Peatland
1x Spire Garden
3x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Mountain
1x Swamp
1x Dakmor Salvage
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Dust Bowl
1x Strip Mine
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Volrath's Stronghold
Creature (18)
1 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Orcish Lumberjack
2 Bloom Tender
2 Lotus Cobra
2 Vexing Shusher
3 Eternal Witness
3 Imperial Recruiter
3 Manglehorn
3 Ramunap Excavator
3 Treasure Nabber
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
5 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
5 Titania, Protector of Argoth
Artifact (9)
0 Chrome Mox
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Diamond
1 Mana Vault
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
2 Sphere of Resistance
4 Aetherflux Reservoir
6 Bolas's Citadel
Enchantment (6)
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Exploration
2 Sylvan Library
3 Oppression
3 Price of Glory
4 Stranglehold
2 Wrenn and Six
5 Nissa, Vital Force
Sorcery (17)
1 Faithless Looting
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vandalblast
1x By Force
1x Green Sun's Zenith
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Life from the Loam
2 Regrowth
2 Sylvan Scrying
2x Tectonic Break
3 Grim Tutor
3 Toxic Deluge
3 Wheel of Fortune
4 Scapeshift
4 Splendid Reclamation
10 Decree of Annihilation
Instant (11)
1 Crop Rotation
1 Dark Ritual
1 Entomb
1 Pyroblast
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Veil of Summer
1 Worldly Tutor
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Constant Mists
3 Fire Covenant
3 Realms Uncharted
Land (36)
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Mana Confluence
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Badlands
1x Taiga
1x Bayou
1x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Luxury Suite
1x Nurturing Peatland
1x Spire Garden
1x Swamp
1x Dakmor Salvage
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Mountain
3x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Dust Bowl
1x Strip Mine
1x Volrath's Stronghold
-Meltdown, Sylvan Scrying, Forest#4, Swamp#2
+Vexing Shusher, Chrome Mox, Xantcha, Sleeper Agent, Squandered Resources
14 May 19 - Upgrade a few slots
-Xantcha, Sleeper Agent, Epicenter
+Evolution Sage, Obliterate
4 June 19 - Modern Horizons (also we had 99 cards... oops)
-Dryad Arbor
+Nurturing Peatland, Tectonic Reformation
11 June 19 - Move towards a Pod strategy
-Tectonic Reformation, Gamble, Generator Servant, Sakura-Tribe Scout
+Ramunap Excavator, Wrenn and Six, Manglehorn, Entomb
18 June 19 - Inspiration from this control version
-Evolution Sage, Magus of the Moon, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Phyrexian Delver, Zealous Conscripts, Squandered Resources, Survival of the Fittest, Dark Petition, Diabolic Tutor, Obliterate, Wildfire, Tooth and Nail, Cavern of Souls
+Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Exploration, Price of Glory, Oppression, Aetherflux Reservoir, Bolas's Citadel, Sensei's Divining Top, Splendid Reclamation, Sylvan Scrying, Constant Mists, Veil of Summer, Nissa, Vital Force, Dakmor Salvage
Considering:
Tectonic Reformation, Gorilla Shaman, Crucible of Worlds
I wanted to bring him back because I loved the deck so much. I'm hoping people are less scared of him now, and also that my improved deckbuilding can mitigate some heavy targeting. It seems like some people have continued with the midrange gameplan, and some people like Lerker have gone even faster, leaning into an early Ad Nauseam.
I wanted to go the opposite direction. My list is much closer to Lerker and imoc's Meta Pod deck, which is great because it shuts down fast combo in cEDH metas and aims to win through combat first, while still having the option to combo when the stars align.
Here's my list:
Creature (30)
1 Arbor Elf
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Young Wolf
2 Devoted Druid
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Strangleroot Geist
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Wall of Roots
2 Zulaport Cutthroat
3 Anafenza, the Foremost
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Eternal Witness
3 Generous Patron
3 Tymna the Weaver
3 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
4 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
5 Karmic Guide
5 Tendershoot Dryad
6 Sun Titan
7 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Artifact (9)
0 Mana Crypt
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
2 Null Rod
2 Phyrexian Altar
2 Sphere of Resistance
3 Tangle Wire
3 Trinisphere
4 Birthing Pod
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Root Maze
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Wild Growth
2 Animate Dead
2 Earthcraft
2 Luminarch Ascension
2 Stony Silence
2 Survival of the Fittest
2 Sylvan Library
3 Aura of Silence
3 Contamination
Sorcery (8)
1 Imperial Seal
1x Green Sun's Zenith
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Nature's Lore
2 Three Visits
3 Eldritch Evolution
3 Yawgmoth's Will
Instant (8)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Eladamri's Call
3x Chord of Calling
Land (32)
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Mana Confluence
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Flooded Strand
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Bayou
1x Temple Garden
1x Godless Shrine
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Bountiful Promenade
3x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Teferi's Ruse 0
Sorcery
~ is blue.
Counter target spell.
With Teferi, Time Raveler currently in print, as well as many eternal cards like Alchemist's Refuge, Leyline of Anticipation, Quicken, etc., it's not unimaginable to have this find its way into a deck. However, most people agree it's generally too niche, or cute for the sake of being cute. So how about this?
Teferi's Veto 0
Sorcery
~ is blue.
You may cast ~ as though it had flash if you pay 1UU more to cast it.
Counter target spell.
Being a strictly better Cancel, is this too good?
I don't know if this applies to you Gashnaw, but the first time I requested to have my Twitch account merged with my mtgsalvation account, nothing happened and several months passed. On the second request, I got control of my account again.
How about a different example: Threaten to only target that one player with any and all counterspells, removal, combat damage, etc. in all future games for time immemorial. This is likewise a legal game action. Do you consider this any different?
I agree with what you're saying here. Intent is important. In my experience as well, "tactical scooping" has only ever happened because someone was upset. My opinion is mainly influenced by that fact.
What exactly makes it tactical? And in what way is it viable? Because by conceding, you've lost the game (which is not a good tactic) so the only way it could be tactical is to influence people in future games. Suddenly we're not talking about politics of the game but rather politics of the group beyond just the game. So then, how is this different than threatening to flip the table if someone attacks you?
In both cases, it demonstrates childish behavior and poor sportsmanship over a game that has ramifications beyond just that game. As almost everyone else in this thread has said, anyone doing this would not be invited to my table again.