You understand that Lotus being in the opener is literally, statistically less likely than it being drawn later in the game, right? That's not a defensible position to take.
Obviously human beings are more likely to remember the extremes of the range, but come on.
Sol Ring is LESS good later in the game, but so is any form of static ramp and ramp is generally still good enough. The reason Sol Ring and Mana Crypt et al. are so powerful is not because they give a single turn of additional mana, but multiple turns of additional mana. The winner of a game of Magic is, generally speaking, the player who spends the most mana. If you get 3 extra mana from a Lotus once, and I get 4 turns with Sol Ring, I know who is probably going to win that game.
Remember that Sol Ring is widely considered stronger than any Mox or Lotus.
Lotus is more comparable to Dark Ritual, in that it enables truly explosive starts, but depreciates in utility much faster than permanent sources of mana advantage. It has the upside of being 0 mana and any color, but the crippling downside of only being usable on your commander. The card is fine. Not terrible, not busted, but interesting and potentially strong in the right situation.
To be fair, that's just exactly Urza's gameplan. I had it built for a while and he's always feast or famine depending on the draw. If you have Urza, a land, lotus, and a piece of interaction for 0-1 mana (there's a lot) you're in a really good spot turn 1.
Urza was already doing precisely that with the currently available fast mana though. Lotus is just more of the same for him, makes the deck slightly more consistent but no more explosive really.
I'm going to push back on the idea that running your commander out early with this -isn't- a good thing.
Most decks are built around their commander, since that's how this format works. Powering your focus out potentially 3 turns earlier is very strong. Yes it will garner hate from the table, but we all still play Sol Ring for the most part in spite of that.
My position, however, is that this card:
A) Isn't good enough at doing its job in a large number of decks. Generals with color-intensive cmcs are popular and really don't want this that much (I'm not putting it in Alela or Omnath), and
B) Even in decks where it is perhaps busted-good the fact that it is basically a dead draw later in the game should relegate it to a very narrow set of gameplans (contrary to what some folks are saying, you would ABSOLUTELY NOT play a card that 4/5 times just pays your commander tax once.)
The fact that it can't be used to cast any card other than your commander is a gigantic drawback that people aren't going to fully understand until they play it and get really sad while their $100+ card sits there doing nothing.
I'm putting a copy in Najeela, because that deck specifically wants her up and running ASAP and isn't terribly concerned with the late game, and also trying a copy out in Korvold because that's a deck where I'm already running Dark Ritual to run him out early and the floor on Lotus in that deck is 0, Sac: Draw a card which is acceptable. I don't see it being good enough in the rest of my lists.
I'm always confused by the way people who hate every new card that comes out use the phrase 'no one asked for this' and its permutations. Like, are we only OK with them printing exactly the cards we tell them to? What's the logic there? And what cards does the format 'need?' Is this just a vote for 'no change?' I think that's pretty boring, and would definitionally result in the death of the game.
FWIW I'm happy this card exists, because it is kind of exciting in the right build but definitely not going to break anything realistically. Powerful new cards that take a little work to make happen get the motor running. Lotus is absolutely not correct in every build, which is exactly the mistake in card evaluation that is driving the presale price into completely untenable territory, but it'll be awesome in the decks that want it if it is drawn early.
More and more it feels like maybe I'm the crazy one for enjoying the game and getting hyped for new cards.
Yeah, its situationally broken but pretty tame on average. I'm going to jam a copy in my Najeela and Korvold decks because they're conducive to abusing it, but other than that my other decks dgaf.
Juice, you're just banging your head against a wall there. I blocked and reported that dude a while ago, either he's completely unhinged or a dedicated troll, and your efforts to apply logic to the situation are just going to wear you out while he simply finds another way to weasel around what you say to support his own points.
Trust me, I know from experience, you're better off not interacting with people like that. For your own sanity.
Yeah, his doubling down tends to lead to longer and longer posts trying to defend his lack of substance and relevancy as he starts scraping the bottom of the barrel trying not to sound daft.
MTGS is dramatically more pleasant to visit now. I was legit considering abandoning the site it was getting so bad, and imagine we've lost a lot of users who made the other decision.
Juice, you're just banging your head against a wall there. I blocked and reported that dude a while ago, either he's completely unhinged or a dedicated troll, and your efforts to apply logic to the situation are just going to wear you out while he simply finds another way to weasel around what you say to support his own points.
Trust me, I know from experience, you're better off not interacting with people like that. For your own sanity.
*****, what's wrong with us. Game of Thrones! I know the show lost a lot of fans with the way it petered out at the end, but there would still be so much love for a crossover like that.
Obviously human beings are more likely to remember the extremes of the range, but come on.
Sol Ring is LESS good later in the game, but so is any form of static ramp and ramp is generally still good enough. The reason Sol Ring and Mana Crypt et al. are so powerful is not because they give a single turn of additional mana, but multiple turns of additional mana. The winner of a game of Magic is, generally speaking, the player who spends the most mana. If you get 3 extra mana from a Lotus once, and I get 4 turns with Sol Ring, I know who is probably going to win that game.
Remember that Sol Ring is widely considered stronger than any Mox or Lotus.
Lotus is more comparable to Dark Ritual, in that it enables truly explosive starts, but depreciates in utility much faster than permanent sources of mana advantage. It has the upside of being 0 mana and any color, but the crippling downside of only being usable on your commander. The card is fine. Not terrible, not busted, but interesting and potentially strong in the right situation.
Agreed. This card is dope, not broken but very interesting.
This set is so ******* cool!
Urza was already doing precisely that with the currently available fast mana though. Lotus is just more of the same for him, makes the deck slightly more consistent but no more explosive really.
Most decks are built around their commander, since that's how this format works. Powering your focus out potentially 3 turns earlier is very strong. Yes it will garner hate from the table, but we all still play Sol Ring for the most part in spite of that.
My position, however, is that this card:
A) Isn't good enough at doing its job in a large number of decks. Generals with color-intensive cmcs are popular and really don't want this that much (I'm not putting it in Alela or Omnath), and
B) Even in decks where it is perhaps busted-good the fact that it is basically a dead draw later in the game should relegate it to a very narrow set of gameplans (contrary to what some folks are saying, you would ABSOLUTELY NOT play a card that 4/5 times just pays your commander tax once.)
The fact that it can't be used to cast any card other than your commander is a gigantic drawback that people aren't going to fully understand until they play it and get really sad while their $100+ card sits there doing nothing.
I'm putting a copy in Najeela, because that deck specifically wants her up and running ASAP and isn't terribly concerned with the late game, and also trying a copy out in Korvold because that's a deck where I'm already running Dark Ritual to run him out early and the floor on Lotus in that deck is 0, Sac: Draw a card which is acceptable. I don't see it being good enough in the rest of my lists.
Delve? Have a zombo. Escape? Have a zombo. Flashback? Have a zombo. Reanimate? Have a zombo. Regrowth? Have a zombo. Tormod's Crypt? Have a zombo.
I like this man.
FWIW I'm happy this card exists, because it is kind of exciting in the right build but definitely not going to break anything realistically. Powerful new cards that take a little work to make happen get the motor running. Lotus is absolutely not correct in every build, which is exactly the mistake in card evaluation that is driving the presale price into completely untenable territory, but it'll be awesome in the decks that want it if it is drawn early.
More and more it feels like maybe I'm the crazy one for enjoying the game and getting hyped for new cards.
Sol Ring is a better card.
3 mana, 3/2 + stone rain + rampant growth at instant speed? Yes please.
MTGS is dramatically more pleasant to visit now. I was legit considering abandoning the site it was getting so bad, and imagine we've lost a lot of users who made the other decision.
Trust me, I know from experience, you're better off not interacting with people like that. For your own sanity.