Interesting point worth considering. Good rant tho...you are correct. I've been doing a bit of testing and probes might just not be what we want. It doesn't give us room for our business spells.
So, Im thinking that more cantrips lets us get closer to our best cards. The problem with 3 color pauper decks is the lands are slow. Manamorphose helps with some color fixing early on while we fetch for the right colored lands. 17 is probably not enough, but maybe with probes and all the cantrips we can play with such a low number and have it work. I have been looking into Rugged Highlands as a single way to get all our nonblue colors in one land, thus letting us fetch for islands. Thoughts on that?
Sig? Adding those would help us draw our best cards more often. Ive tried cutting a land from 18-17, cutting down to 3 Werebears, and then a few removal spells. With 4x Bolt and maybe 2 Wraths, we don't need so many Vapor Snags which are card disadvantage in a mid to long game.
Good to see this deck still being worked on. I saw someone mention it, but why no love for Manamorphose or Probe. Both cycle for virtually free while filling up the graveyard and Manamorphose can fix our mana for a turn
So I just played a few matches with Gruul Zoo...man that deck is lightning fast and pretty consistant. Doesn't usually kill turn 3 but the game is sometimes over by then.
@Lantern: I agree about the deck names, I'd rather just say Gruul or Big zoo as those are descriptive names. It does seem that the new Gruul is the closest thing to a zoo aggro deck that weve had for a while. Big zoo seems more midrangey. I've been on the RUG Delver train for a while and am seeing some of the same problems zoo seems to have now. The other fair matchups tend to rock BGx, so they have the best removal vs our small beaters. I think this could be why Gruul zoo does so well as they don't care about one guy dying. They just swing for a ton on turn 3 and youre dead. If we want to play a normal curve zoo list, you've got to deal with Abrupt Decay and Fatal Push. These two cards can easily stop attack assault leaving our bolts hopelessly out of range of their big goyfs and Shadows. In RUG, I love Hooting Mandrills as it has a big body and cannot be hit by either of those. Also, what about Mirran Crusader? I was thinking of cards that have pro-black, and this does plus protection from everything Shadow does except Tarfire which I don't think is a 4-of. It also has double strike and with bolt becoming less relevant against the field, an x/2 is less of a problem. Thoughts?
With the new Revolt Zoo seeming to be blindingly fast, is there still a reason to be on the big zoo plan? It seems that this Gruul zoo varient is pretty much what Lantern was playing before Nacatl got unbanned. Play tons of small dudes and goldfish turn 3-4. What does bigger zoo offer, unless you just like playing with fatties, which I understand
I think the jury is still out on Shoal. Sometimes it sucks, but sometimes it does things no other counter can do.
In other news, I have killed a goyf, Death's Shadow, and two Puresteel Paladins with Pongify. The lulz part of it is, I died to a frog token once. I've been trying to join Mr. Mnes in making RUG vids but I keep having players quit or time out from slow play. Did get a solid match vs Shadow Jund.
Pongify actually sounds like a funny but possible card to test. The token can be bounced which is nice but besides that the token is virtually irrelevant. Counters are great against spell heavy decks, but it really feels bad when our only out to 4/4+ fatties is to bounce them over and over. Pongify helps there. As for Dismember, besides instant speed which I understand is important, is lowering the creature's power that important? I have found that in super grindy games, our life total is pretty relevant and 4 life is a lot. Maybe as a 1-of but not more I think
Good thought with Threads of Disloyalty. I am not really that afraid of delve guys as I never play fewer than 3 Simic Charm, but the cheap Shadow and Goyf are what seem problematic. I guess my main question is, since two or three of the better decks in the format are playing big creatures, Shadow and Eldrazi, could it be worth splashing black or white for better removal? Or is it simply worth it to just hope to play against our better matchups. Being a good Blood Moon deck is a legitimate thing. I have considered Roast as an answer to fatties instead of Dismember. Haven't seen anyone playing that for a while.
We have spent a lot of time talking about how to play against grindy jund and abzan decks, but the Death's Shadow jund plays differently. Is there any removal for the Shadow and Goyf they play that we can use or do we just try to moon them out and then play huntmaster?
Cryptic Serpent? Looks like Bedlam Reveler without the Ancestral Recall. It's hard to make this kind of card work in the main since it forces us to build in a weird way that gives up a lot of points against linear decks. Mandrills is much better there as it comes out faster.
I'd look at it again. While our creature base is pretty standardized, serpent is different from Reveler. First it costs 1 less and the main reason I havent wanted to play revelers is that he makes you discard your hand. Even to draw 3, I'd rather just play serpent earlier. It also has a cmc of 7 so cannot be Fatal Pushed or Abrupt Decayed, which actually means its virtually unkillable against several of the current major decks
As one who has played Boros Charm a lot, it is a beating in a swarm deck like this. Sometimes this deck wishes it had "only one more turn" before a board wipe comes down. Boros Charm fixes that problem as well as being 4 to the dome and giving possible Goblin Rabblemaster doublestrike....seems good.
In other news, I have killed a goyf, Death's Shadow, and two Puresteel Paladins with Pongify. The lulz part of it is, I died to a frog token once. I've been trying to join Mr. Mnes in making RUG vids but I keep having players quit or time out from slow play. Did get a solid match vs Shadow Jund.
I'd look at it again. While our creature base is pretty standardized, serpent is different from Reveler. First it costs 1 less and the main reason I havent wanted to play revelers is that he makes you discard your hand. Even to draw 3, I'd rather just play serpent earlier. It also has a cmc of 7 so cannot be Fatal Pushed or Abrupt Decayed, which actually means its virtually unkillable against several of the current major decks