I really hope Pioneer does not take over Modern, I have no interest in another, more limited format.
Moving on. Oko is a great card. It’s possible he could fit in a Simic Devotion strat. I’ll have to revisit Simic Devotion. Again, the only way I’d consider playing Goose is if I’m already playing Oko, and even then, I’m not convinced it’s worth replaced BoP for it, despite W&S being in the format.
I think Goose is pretty meh unless your deck has Oko. Getting only 1 use out of the Goose, ain’t a deuce from a moose, or something like that. The decks that run Goose are completely different from Green Devotion.
So this list is probably better than the Finks + Henge list.
It is nearly identical to my most played and most successful Green Devotion list which I called Garruk Green that ran 2 copies of Garruk, Caller of Beasts . Now instead of Caller of Beasts and two other cards - Wolfbriar Elemental and I fI can’t remember what the other was - I have Karn. I will now have to see if this is better than the original. Caller of Beasts is insane, allowing for the deck to get any creature in the deck down for 6 mana (Craterhoof a turn earlier is a big game), and in addition, adding a ton of card advantage. Whereas Karn adds 15 extra cards to the maindeck, a large toolbox, plus and additional wincon.
Match 1 vs. New monoblue Paradoxical Outcome deck 0-2 Loss (this deck looks really good)
Match 2 vs.R/U Thing/Aria of FLame deck Win 2-1
Match 3 vs. Green Tron Win 2-0 Game 2 he got turn 3 natural Tron and I still managed to win but he may have misplayed idk for sure
Basically this is just Karn Devotion but with Henge and Blasting Station thrown in the sideboard (can be substituted with Altar of Dementia, not sure which is better yet).
The question is whether it is worth it to the two cards. It seemed like a easy fit, because Finks was always a 4-of in my Walker decks anyways, though I worked on Walker decks a long time ago. I used it because it provided at leaset two blocks to protect my Walkers, while adding 2 devotion, gaining life, and synergizing with any Walkers that add +1 +1 counters, just like Ballista.
SO basically it's just two cardsI have to add to the deck to include an infinte combo, and just a a good card. Not to mention, The Great Henge and Blasting Station are not useless cards on their own.
karn's becoming quite the card, i didn't realize he tutored the whole combo except for finks.
Becoming? Personally, I never feel strongly about banning cards, but I feel like Karn is a bit too good for Modern and goes in so many decks, that it warrants a ban consideration. Like Looting was just an enabler, but Karn is a wincon and control card that can go in any color, that happens to hose artifact decks on its own. That means you also have 4 sideboard cards maindeck vs artifact decks, which is kind of ridiculous.
Not only is Varolz ez to splash, relatively cheap to cast, has another relevant ability, but it’s also hard to get rid of, making the combo not so easy to disrupt. I don’t think there’s a better option available.
@Curdbros,
So the Henge list I came up with so far is basically just a Karn list with Henge in the sideboard. Nothing too revolutionary, though the Karn deck is very new itself. I will try to test it today, but I have a date so not sure I will have time.
Thoughts on Evolutionary Leap if we want to stay in a mono-green build?
It’s could be ok, but you can’t go infinite with it. Plus it can’t be tutored or hit with Oath, so there are probably better options.
You can easily splash Varolz, with 1-2 Overgrown Tomb. I play 10 fetchlands in many of my devotion decks, and between that and Utopia Sprawls and BoPs, it’s not a problem at all. THe deck is still basically mono-Green.
You might want to try splashing black for Varolz, the Scar-Striped. Not only does it create a sac outlet to combo off with, but also the Scavenge ability is quite good too in this deck. Seems like a perfect fit. Also, Walking Ballista should def be in the deck.
Also, while Black with early hand disruption seems to be going well, I wanted to step back for a moment and take a look at other third colors, just in case.
Blue seems to be the only real alternative, but i've compiled a small list of the most relevant Sunforger targets in blue, and will be trying to cobble together a Jeskai list later out of curiosity. There are some powerful cards here, and they do answer some of the issues that Mardu has, though of course they present their own.
Blue in general could also open up other possibilities, and i've been eyeing The Royal Scions since they were spoiled. For now its just thoughts and musings, will post again if it goes anywhere.
I also briefly considered swapping blue for black, and although I didn’t think about it extensively, I came to the quick conclusion that black is just better, though that may be incorrect. U/W Stoneblade is doing pretty well in the format, so I don’t see why Jeskai couldn’t do alright as well.
After some first tests against Selesnya blade, elves and RG Breach, I find the list I posted loses the top deck mode too often.
Usually it happens that the discard spells do their job but then opponent's top decks were better than mine.
So I'll add the 4 copies of Manamorphose, to try to refill the hand, and some strong finisher.
Any ideas? How are your tests going?
Adding Manamorphose is only going to refill your hand if you have the Sunforger + Champion combo going, which is NOT most of the time. That’s why I do not recommend the Morphose plan. THere are other safer ways to get value. Confidant and Arcanist are value engines on their own.
Oh wow, I didn’t even know Wakeroot Elemental existed! Or I probably did, but thought it wasn’t a great option. Yeah, seems kinda slow actually, since if you have 13 mana or whatever, you’re probably winning already.
Also, I have a sweet The Great Henge deck brewing, I’ll post it soon. I’m actually looking forward to this. Originally I didn’t think it would work, but now I think it might have some potential! Hint: this card works perfectly with Karn, the Great Creator
The problem with running 4 Captains, is that it’s a very expensive card and it’s ability is not always that useful. One of the best things about Fervent Champion is that you can just jam a sword on turn 3 and swing in with it.
I am aware that it is a very underwhelming creature on it’s own, so I’ve made yet ANOTHER list, which trims the Champions, and focuses on individually good cards and value.
The least is veering closer to just pure Mardu Midrange, but I think Sunforger can actually be good enough to include in Mardu Midrange, since it is a value engine itself, in addition to being a tutor.
I’m still uncertain of the numbers, but this is the best I could think of for now. Unsure about the Boros Charm, Settle and Mardu Charm maindeck, and also unsure about some sideboard cards.
Moving on. Oko is a great card. It’s possible he could fit in a Simic Devotion strat. I’ll have to revisit Simic Devotion. Again, the only way I’d consider playing Goose is if I’m already playing Oko, and even then, I’m not convinced it’s worth replaced BoP for it, despite W&S being in the format.
You should post your decklist.
It is nearly identical to my most played and most successful Green Devotion list which I called Garruk Green that ran 2 copies of Garruk, Caller of Beasts . Now instead of Caller of Beasts and two other cards - Wolfbriar Elemental and I fI can’t remember what the other was - I have Karn. I will now have to see if this is better than the original. Caller of Beasts is insane, allowing for the deck to get any creature in the deck down for 6 mana (Craterhoof a turn earlier is a big game), and in addition, adding a ton of card advantage. Whereas Karn adds 15 extra cards to the maindeck, a large toolbox, plus and additional wincon.
Creatures: 22
4 Arbor Elf
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Walking Ballista
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Burning-Tree Emissary
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Hornet Queen
1 Acidic Slime
Non-creatures: 17
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Oath of Nissa
2 Summoner's Pact
6 Forest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Damping Sphere
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Force of Vigor
1 Trinisphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Veil of Summer
Again, this sideboard is unrefined.
Potential Karn targets:
EDIT:
Testing Log
Match 1 vs. New monoblue Paradoxical Outcome deck 0-2 Loss (this deck looks really good)
Match 2 vs.R/U Thing/Aria of FLame deck Win 2-1
Match 3 vs. Green Tron Win 2-0 Game 2 he got turn 3 natural Tron and I still managed to win but he may have misplayed idk for sure
/
// 17 Creature
4 Arbor Elf
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Walking Ballista
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Hornet Queen
// 8 Enchantment
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Oath of Nissa
// 2 Instant
2 Summoner's Pact
// 22 Land
7 Forest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Damping Sphere
1 Blasting Station
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 The Great Henge
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Force of Vigor
1 Acidic Slime
1 Sylvok Replica
3 Veil of Summer
Unsure of the sideboard still.
Basically this is just Karn Devotion but with Henge and Blasting Station thrown in the sideboard (can be substituted with Altar of Dementia, not sure which is better yet).
The question is whether it is worth it to the two cards. It seemed like a easy fit, because Finks was always a 4-of in my Walker decks anyways, though I worked on Walker decks a long time ago. I used it because it provided at leaset two blocks to protect my Walkers, while adding 2 devotion, gaining life, and synergizing with any Walkers that add +1 +1 counters, just like Ballista.
SO basically it's just two cardsI have to add to the deck to include an infinte combo, and just a a good card. Not to mention, The Great Henge and Blasting Station are not useless cards on their own.
Becoming? Personally, I never feel strongly about banning cards, but I feel like Karn is a bit too good for Modern and goes in so many decks, that it warrants a ban consideration. Like Looting was just an enabler, but Karn is a wincon and control card that can go in any color, that happens to hose artifact decks on its own. That means you also have 4 sideboard cards maindeck vs artifact decks, which is kind of ridiculous.
ALtar and Blasting Station work well in the Karn version, but for his version Varolz is better because he has more ways to find it than ALtar.
It’s possible that a non-Karn deck could be good, using big fatties like the ones you mentioned, I just haven’t tried building it... yet.
@Curdbros,
So the Henge list I came up with so far is basically just a Karn list with Henge in the sideboard. Nothing too revolutionary, though the Karn deck is very new itself. I will try to test it today, but I have a date so not sure I will have time.
It’s could be ok, but you can’t go infinite with it. Plus it can’t be tutored or hit with Oath, so there are probably better options.
You can easily splash Varolz, with 1-2 Overgrown Tomb. I play 10 fetchlands in many of my devotion decks, and between that and Utopia Sprawls and BoPs, it’s not a problem at all. THe deck is still basically mono-Green.
You might want to try splashing black for Varolz, the Scar-Striped. Not only does it create a sac outlet to combo off with, but also the Scavenge ability is quite good too in this deck. Seems like a perfect fit. Also, Walking Ballista should def be in the deck.
I also briefly considered swapping blue for black, and although I didn’t think about it extensively, I came to the quick conclusion that black is just better, though that may be incorrect. U/W Stoneblade is doing pretty well in the format, so I don’t see why Jeskai couldn’t do alright as well.
Adding Manamorphose is only going to refill your hand if you have the Sunforger + Champion combo going, which is NOT most of the time. That’s why I do not recommend the Morphose plan. THere are other safer ways to get value. Confidant and Arcanist are value engines on their own.
Also, I have a sweet The Great Henge deck brewing, I’ll post it soon. I’m actually looking forward to this. Originally I didn’t think it would work, but now I think it might have some potential! Hint: this card works perfectly with Karn, the Great Creator
I am aware that it is a very underwhelming creature on it’s own, so I’ve made yet ANOTHER list, which trims the Champions, and focuses on individually good cards and value.
1 Sunforger
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Creatures: 16
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Fervent Champion
3 Giver of Runes
3 Dreadhorde Arcanist
2 Dark Confidant
1 Ranger-Captain of Eos
1 Grim Lavamancer
Spells: 18
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Kaya's Guile
1 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Lightning Helix
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Boros Charm
1 Mardu Charm
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
1 Prismatic Vista
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Godless Shrine
2 Sunbaked Canyon
2 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Boil
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Shattering Spree
1 Wear // Tear
1 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Sowing Salt
1 Abrade
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Slaughter Games
1 Ricochet Trap
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Damping Sphere
The least is veering closer to just pure Mardu Midrange, but I think Sunforger can actually be good enough to include in Mardu Midrange, since it is a value engine itself, in addition to being a tutor.
I’m still uncertain of the numbers, but this is the best I could think of for now. Unsure about the Boros Charm, Settle and Mardu Charm maindeck, and also unsure about some sideboard cards.