It's all too true that goyfieboy (they're sooo cute) can suffer from incidental GYhate, but you must examine his role in the deck vs. what Quirion Dryad's would be.
Goyf can come down at practically any time without really needing anything to synergize him into a viable threat. Often he's thrown down to tidy up a crippled opponent. Even if he shrinks, growing again just seems to hapen in short order and it's only aggro decks who put on a lot of pressure who can seize the oppotunity here.
QDryad needs you to cast a flurry of spells to grow it, post haste. Of course, this deck is capable of doing just that, but both Crime and Jab are best used quite early in the game to wreck control and aggro repectively, and taking time out to cast a threat beforehand can loosen your stranglehold on a game. While it's possible to bring it down afterwards as well, you may need both a retrace spell and LftL by that stage in order to grow enough. This seems less dependable.
It seems a viable enough alternative to CCrusher though, especially if you see Celestial Purge around the place.
Hats off for looking aroung for another cheap finisher, goyf does seem a little ubiquitous.
I would just like to mention that Order of Whiteclay may be the recursion droids we are looking for. The 3 mana activation is typically worth it vs the higher costs of admission to the alternatives, and it's often a 4/4 - sometimes as a surprise as ppl tend not to realize it's an untap ability.
Age old problem...holding back for counters to stop the more aggro decks, or getting a search spell or green token/ramp off? Leyline of Anticipation seems to have it covered, and I'm having some success with it. We also don't need to splash white with All Is Dust in the format, and red can be hurt quite badly with Elixir of Immortality - the reshuffle helpful vs some other decks (mill etc.)
There are reasons not to run these spells (AIDust destroying own Jace/AZone/Leyline), but in the meantime I'm winning FNMs.
The 20 land thing bullbar did was risky, but I think you also have to look at his deck more carefully. The top of his curve is ranger and ajani, and he can basically function off of 2 or 3 mana. Because he only has 20 lands, he can miss one, and then play KOWO to catch him up again. As for no cloudgoat ranger, well, I guess thats a personal preference, but I think the card is so strong I probably wouldn't leave home without it. Then again, the deck has the potential of winning on turn 5 anyways that figure becomes the big guy instead of cloudgoat.
U got it right, it's a totally different manacurve. I actually keep some 1 land hands - a couple of 1 drops (15 in deck) and a KotWO and I'm usually good to go. I too like Cloudgoat, but have noticed their impact seems to have decreased and the gameplan is to have won by that stage of the game (Burrentons maindeck as they are to protect vs common sweepers). With this decks improved threat density, it's all too easy to sandbag additional threats vs successful sweepers anyway, and the low land count makes for better rips going long as well.
With just 6 three drops and 5 four drops at the top of the curve, it's actually hard to justify more than 20 land, especially when your 'Rampant Growth' puts the land in untapped and gives you a 2/2 1st striker into the bargain.
The Silences on the board were good for me - meant to come in vs 5cc Control, Fae, Time Sieve and comboElves. A 5cc player showed me a Hallowed Burial and multiple Firespouts, with him on 6 land, after losing to double silence and a horde inc Burrenton FT. Has anyone else tested them? Anything more conclusive which could take these slots in these matchups? I like them, but feel they are tertiary - they do very little unless you stay in front.
3 Burrenton Forge Tender
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Goldmeadow Stalwart
3 Wizened Cenn
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Spectral Procession
2 Ranger of Eos
3 Ajani Goldmane
3 Honor of the Pure
4 Path to Exile
4 Rustic Clachan
4 Windbrisk Heights
12 Plains
1 Burrenton Forge Tender
2 Stillmoon Cavalier
2 Order of Whiteclay
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Espeth, Knight-Errant
4 Silence
Significant differences from usual Kithkin decks as follows....
1 - Land count of 20, plus set of Knight of the White Orchid. This impacts on other card choices, and improves threat density.
2 - Forge Tenders and Stillmoons maindeck. Conserves sideboard space and improves % vs common sweepers etc.
3 - Ranger of Eos over Cloudgoat Rangers. Partly due to manabase, also gives great lategame without overcommitting to the board.
4 - Sideboard Order of Whiteclay over Reveillark. Another manabase call, but very happy with their performance. Again.
Tourney was 7 rounds, deck had a 5-1-ID finish. I'd love to discuss the deck, but I'm rarely here and just wanted to toss this up as food for thought.
It's pretty fun to play up to that. 'oh, I ripped a burn spell. Soh rucky!'. Of course, if you count Barbarian Ring I'm running 43/60 ATM personally...
You can also flip like this in situations where a mountain gives you ur 3 drop or second fireblast FTW. And let's face it, we don't often have to think much - we can make a show out of the game.
Speaking of which, I've found that when playing burn I have more time to analyze opponents, and try to read thier poker face - often to good effect. NE1 else noticed the same?
EDIT2: Regarding the article in the OP, I was meditating about a possible inclusion of Earthcraft in the Elf Combo deck. It does a little better the work of Birchlore Rangers: One More mana, Noncreature Green spell, tap Nettle Sentinel to untap a Forest. What do you think about this?
Earthcraft is quite banned. It's just too good. Sheesh, I recall I could get infinate saprolings, each with infinate power and toughness, on turn 3 off using it back in the day. We won't be seeing this card come off the banned list ever I should imagine.
Lekwid: The landcount of 20 instead of 19 isn't drastically different statistically. People running Anarchy have long been advocates of 20 land. A pair of Shard Volley is essentially adding further 'finisher' spells, I don't anticipate casting them as anything other than the final 3 points the majority of the time. Of course, there will be those games where I'll get a fist full of Volleys and Fireblasts, but testing will reveal if the frequency is too great to bear. I certainly think it will not slow the deck as much as additional 3 drops, or cards which are poor topdecks.
Gravemind123: I kind of know the Mogg is still OK, but he's been slipping in relevance in my meta NEway. Might as well try some new steps. I can afford to lose the points, my Eternal rating already qualified me for Nats as Total is being used in addition to Composite now.
Shaven Wumpus: A little from column A, and some from column B. Elite Legacy players realise the deck is an eternal staple in the global metagame, as against many decks and metagame conditions it wins quite a lot. It's seens as a bit cheap tho, essentially ignoring many of the reasons a lot of people play this format. Essentially, many top tier decks have to be prepared to face it and pack appropriate sideboard tech for the matchup, and if they don't you've caught them with thier pants down and they lose. To Burn. Piloted by a n00b. =^D
In meatspace, common reactions to facing a known good player using Burn are "You KNEW I had nothing in the board for that!" or "Jeez, you have a heavy night?"
I think I'll be going back to Shard Volley x 2 given the nerfing of our Mogg. I can now fit the 4th Incinerate again, and the last slot will either be the 3rd Vortex or the 20th land. Given that the average mana requirements are increasing, the Volleys are there, and there are more reasons than ever to run sideboard Anarchy locally, the land is looking good.
Nil: Yes, Sharazad is banned. That old decklist is from b4 the banning, and may be contributing factor in it!
The removal of combat damage stacking nerfs Cephalid Breakfast decks quite hard, where the Volrath's Shapeshifter/Cephalid Illusionist/Phage kill was the combo. Now creature removal spells can actally stop U from winning. =^(
Cleanfall brings back memories - I recall running one and also a few Tempest of Light. I remember needing a sweeper vs the popular Enchantress decks in my metagame at the time is what prompted me to consider the white splash to begin with! It worked, they dropped out of the metagame - they protagonists picking up other decks. I don't think I was the only hater...everyone wanted my extra Reverent Silences at the time!
Other regular burn sideboard gear, with typical white stuff on occation such as Honorable Passage or Warmth for the mirror/Goblins, Serenity and other disenchant effects, niche gear like Spiritual Focus or Sacred Ground - all dependant on metagame knowledge.
If U R making it for casual play, I reccomend Repercussion and a few more sweepers - it allows U play multiplayer. Ensnaring Bridge might be a nessesity too.
Sorry for the delay, I don't log in all that often.
There is too much tech available to pack it all, it just comes down to knowing your own metagame. If you face Dredge, pack TCrypt/Relics obvs.
Solitary Confinement et. al.: Anarchy has more credibility than our other best option - Culling Scales. The scales are good when you need more general hate for chills, stax pieces, and the aggro in aggro/control though, and since they actually tick so many boxes the Scales are worth keping in mind despite thier lacklustre tempo.
Burning Wish: I've actually used this in a burn deck before. It was not a deck for purists - it splashed white, primarily for Shahrazad. This was the usual wish target too, as a 2cc spell that does half a players life and steps on combo decks simultaneously isn't too shabby for Burn..
This deck also made the rules implode, when during a subgame you would wish for a Shahrazad still on the stack in the original game. I presented this loltastic quandry to the top judge in this country, and this corner of the rules was fixed in the final update b4 Shahrazad was banned entirely.
Screwing over combo decks, often doing 10 damage, and making the rules implode.....I think that if you are using Burning Wish in Burn for anything less, then it's probably not worth it. Lists using it appeared at some large event awhile ago (euro GP I think), they didn't do well, and the tech failed to proliferate.
REB?PBlast vs Shusher: Obvs meta reliant. Checklist - CB/top? Chill? Counters? Blue tutors like Intuition? High Tide decks? Chalice of the Void? Stiflenought? Want a sideboard man-plan? We all know which of these problems is solved better by what, so just run through your own metagame checklist and make your own call.
EDIT: If ppl face reanimated fatties and Dreadnoughts in the same metagame, consider Dead/Gone or Stingscourger.
Actualy i only play EXTENDED & LEGACY, so i thanks for all the help you can give to put this Decklist better.
Thks,
SNight
All the core cards are there. For example, my maindeck is only a teensy bit different ATM...
- 2 Mountain
- 3 Browbeat
- 1 Incinerate
+ 2 Barbarian Ring
+ 1 Price of Progress
+ 1 Volcanic Fallout
+ 2 Sulfuric Vortex
It's interesting to note that the manacurve is identical. Fill the metagame slots with whatever you think you need - without local knowledge all we can do here is speculate on what should be in the board (and maybe even fit 2-3 of maindeck).
The build I was tinkering with would've costed 160 dollars and sixty-two cents at MtgFanatic, arbeit 50 dollars from that is for the non-necessary lands. (2 Undiscovered Paradise, 4 City of Brass, 4 Gemstone Mine.) I suppose those can be replaced with something else that's almost as efficient.
Sure, list with fairly recent prices and discusion on the Australian MTG site here http://www.mtgparadise.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33452
I'm not using a budget manabase at all - duals and fetches, the rainbow lands are actually quite cost effective by comparison. Its wholly possible to run the deck on Underground River, some Gemstone Mines, the odd Watery Grave if you have them from Extended or old T2 etc. Sheesh, you could even get away with a few River of Tears with minimal modification.
This list isn't the same as the rainbow LEDless ones, it's UB. I wasn't convinced by Tireless Tribe, and in my meta the only things I needed a flashback card to deal with were preventing me dredging into it in the first place.
Goyf can come down at practically any time without really needing anything to synergize him into a viable threat. Often he's thrown down to tidy up a crippled opponent. Even if he shrinks, growing again just seems to hapen in short order and it's only aggro decks who put on a lot of pressure who can seize the oppotunity here.
QDryad needs you to cast a flurry of spells to grow it, post haste. Of course, this deck is capable of doing just that, but both Crime and Jab are best used quite early in the game to wreck control and aggro repectively, and taking time out to cast a threat beforehand can loosen your stranglehold on a game. While it's possible to bring it down afterwards as well, you may need both a retrace spell and LftL by that stage in order to grow enough. This seems less dependable.
It seems a viable enough alternative to CCrusher though, especially if you see Celestial Purge around the place.
Hats off for looking aroung for another cheap finisher, goyf does seem a little ubiquitous.
There are reasons not to run these spells (AIDust destroying own Jace/AZone/Leyline), but in the meantime I'm winning FNMs.
U got it right, it's a totally different manacurve. I actually keep some 1 land hands - a couple of 1 drops (15 in deck) and a KotWO and I'm usually good to go. I too like Cloudgoat, but have noticed their impact seems to have decreased and the gameplan is to have won by that stage of the game (Burrentons maindeck as they are to protect vs common sweepers). With this decks improved threat density, it's all too easy to sandbag additional threats vs successful sweepers anyway, and the low land count makes for better rips going long as well.
With just 6 three drops and 5 four drops at the top of the curve, it's actually hard to justify more than 20 land, especially when your 'Rampant Growth' puts the land in untapped and gives you a 2/2 1st striker into the bargain.
The Silences on the board were good for me - meant to come in vs 5cc Control, Fae, Time Sieve and comboElves. A 5cc player showed me a Hallowed Burial and multiple Firespouts, with him on 6 land, after losing to double silence and a horde inc Burrenton FT. Has anyone else tested them? Anything more conclusive which could take these slots in these matchups? I like them, but feel they are tertiary - they do very little unless you stay in front.
3 Burrenton Forge Tender
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Goldmeadow Stalwart
3 Wizened Cenn
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Spectral Procession
2 Ranger of Eos
3 Ajani Goldmane
3 Honor of the Pure
4 Path to Exile
4 Rustic Clachan
4 Windbrisk Heights
12 Plains
1 Burrenton Forge Tender
2 Stillmoon Cavalier
2 Order of Whiteclay
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Espeth, Knight-Errant
4 Silence
Significant differences from usual Kithkin decks as follows....
1 - Land count of 20, plus set of Knight of the White Orchid. This impacts on other card choices, and improves threat density.
2 - Forge Tenders and Stillmoons maindeck. Conserves sideboard space and improves % vs common sweepers etc.
3 - Ranger of Eos over Cloudgoat Rangers. Partly due to manabase, also gives great lategame without overcommitting to the board.
4 - Sideboard Order of Whiteclay over Reveillark. Another manabase call, but very happy with their performance. Again.
Tourney was 7 rounds, deck had a 5-1-ID finish. I'd love to discuss the deck, but I'm rarely here and just wanted to toss this up as food for thought.
You can also flip like this in situations where a mountain gives you ur 3 drop or second fireblast FTW. And let's face it, we don't often have to think much - we can make a show out of the game.
Speaking of which, I've found that when playing burn I have more time to analyze opponents, and try to read thier poker face - often to good effect. NE1 else noticed the same?
Earthcraft is quite banned. It's just too good. Sheesh, I recall I could get infinate saprolings, each with infinate power and toughness, on turn 3 off using it back in the day. We won't be seeing this card come off the banned list ever I should imagine.
Gravemind123: I kind of know the Mogg is still OK, but he's been slipping in relevance in my meta NEway. Might as well try some new steps. I can afford to lose the points, my Eternal rating already qualified me for Nats as Total is being used in addition to Composite now.
Shaven Wumpus: A little from column A, and some from column B. Elite Legacy players realise the deck is an eternal staple in the global metagame, as against many decks and metagame conditions it wins quite a lot. It's seens as a bit cheap tho, essentially ignoring many of the reasons a lot of people play this format. Essentially, many top tier decks have to be prepared to face it and pack appropriate sideboard tech for the matchup, and if they don't you've caught them with thier pants down and they lose. To Burn. Piloted by a n00b. =^D
In meatspace, common reactions to facing a known good player using Burn are "You KNEW I had nothing in the board for that!" or "Jeez, you have a heavy night?"
Nil: Yes, Sharazad is banned. That old decklist is from b4 the banning, and may be contributing factor in it!
Sideboard:
Other regular burn sideboard gear, with typical white stuff on occation such as Honorable Passage or Warmth for the mirror/Goblins, Serenity and other disenchant effects, niche gear like Spiritual Focus or Sacred Ground - all dependant on metagame knowledge.
If U R making it for casual play, I reccomend Repercussion and a few more sweepers - it allows U play multiplayer. Ensnaring Bridge might be a nessesity too.
Sorry for the delay, I don't log in all that often.
Solitary Confinement et. al.: Anarchy has more credibility than our other best option - Culling Scales. The scales are good when you need more general hate for chills, stax pieces, and the aggro in aggro/control though, and since they actually tick so many boxes the Scales are worth keping in mind despite thier lacklustre tempo.
Burning Wish: I've actually used this in a burn deck before. It was not a deck for purists - it splashed white, primarily for Shahrazad. This was the usual wish target too, as a 2cc spell that does half a players life and steps on combo decks simultaneously isn't too shabby for Burn..
This deck also made the rules implode, when during a subgame you would wish for a Shahrazad still on the stack in the original game. I presented this loltastic quandry to the top judge in this country, and this corner of the rules was fixed in the final update b4 Shahrazad was banned entirely.
Screwing over combo decks, often doing 10 damage, and making the rules implode.....I think that if you are using Burning Wish in Burn for anything less, then it's probably not worth it. Lists using it appeared at some large event awhile ago (euro GP I think), they didn't do well, and the tech failed to proliferate.
REB?PBlast vs Shusher: Obvs meta reliant. Checklist - CB/top? Chill? Counters? Blue tutors like Intuition? High Tide decks? Chalice of the Void? Stiflenought? Want a sideboard man-plan? We all know which of these problems is solved better by what, so just run through your own metagame checklist and make your own call.
EDIT: If ppl face reanimated fatties and Dreadnoughts in the same metagame, consider Dead/Gone or Stingscourger.
All the core cards are there. For example, my maindeck is only a teensy bit different ATM...
- 2 Mountain
- 3 Browbeat
- 1 Incinerate
+ 2 Barbarian Ring
+ 1 Price of Progress
+ 1 Volcanic Fallout
+ 2 Sulfuric Vortex
It's interesting to note that the manacurve is identical. Fill the metagame slots with whatever you think you need - without local knowledge all we can do here is speculate on what should be in the board (and maybe even fit 2-3 of maindeck).
Sure, list with fairly recent prices and discusion on the Australian MTG site here http://www.mtgparadise.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33452
I'm not using a budget manabase at all - duals and fetches, the rainbow lands are actually quite cost effective by comparison. Its wholly possible to run the deck on Underground River, some Gemstone Mines, the odd Watery Grave if you have them from Extended or old T2 etc. Sheesh, you could even get away with a few River of Tears with minimal modification.
This list isn't the same as the rainbow LEDless ones, it's UB. I wasn't convinced by Tireless Tribe, and in my meta the only things I needed a flashback card to deal with were preventing me dredging into it in the first place.