MTG Salvation

I think white has powerful cards, for sure. I just value consistency, having roughly 2 more life a game, extra basics for moon and such, and field of ruin is often acts like a spell in a deck that wants 25ish lands anyway.

The extra color is not free.

I'm not sure what you're asking? Are you asking how to sideboard? What cards to play if you want an edge? Or just how we feel about the matchup?

If you're not playing Bob you can play Tasigur. I think that with 2 Liliana Last Hope, 2 Tasigur, and the 4 Trackers we are good on the grind/card advantage. He also can act as goyf 5 and 6. I don't want to play Dark Confidant. I think we can outgrind most decks in game 1 and instead would rather have additional tools against UW in the sideboard. Playing Confidant seems like an unnecessary risk.

I don't always agree with him, but I've been watching Hoogland's stream and I actually really like his approach to the deck overall. This is his current 75:


I'm playing something very similar. My personal changes are very small: -1 Swamp +1 Black Fetch, -1 Ooze +1 Liliana of the Veil, -1 Dismember +1 Flaying Tendrils.

I think so. The funny thing that I have found is that Tireless Tracker does Lingering Souls' job, but often better. Obviously souls is better against some things (counters/discard) but tracker is better at applying pressure and it doesnt require you to splash a color. Instead you get to play 6-7 basics and 3-4 field of ruin.

Normally you trade some power for consistency, but I think BG rock has both. You really dont gain much from the splash, but you gain a lot of consistency from just staying 2 colors. Field+Trophy is solid gameplan, Tracker (as mentioned) covers Lingering Souls' spot quite well and mainboard brutality is totally reasonable for your last few removal slots and it also helps against burn and combo.

In terms of sideboard cards, white brings stony silence and now knight of autumn. Damping sphere is a pretty solid colorless hate permanent although it doesnt touch affinity. (Need to test that matchup). Knight seems great, but at this point we are grasping at reasons for the splash.

The biggest thing I think BG loses from a splash is actually a good 2 color manland. Quagmire is awful. Treetop is great, but even 2 color cant support 4 Treetops (twilight mire maybe?)

So after a bunch playing/theorycrafting/discussion with my friends I was able to come up with this:



So a couple explanations:
I tried a full on delirium build that was analagous to Abzan Delirium (essentially just had snaps instead of souls) which was pretty solid, especially because with Snap in your deck, Traverse becomes even better. I think this could be another solid approach to the archetype, but I eventually moved away from it because any sort of graveyard hate completely neutered the deck (similar to issues that Mardu Pyro has).

I also tried a Noble Hierarch build. The starts with Noble are actually great and again, it feels really close to being good. The biggest struggle I had was that it suffers from only have 4 mana accelerators and it is hard to build a consistent gameplan around it.

I also tried builds similar to what Hoogland was playing with Delve guys/Thought Scour and just GB splashing for Snap/Counters/Unmoored Ego. I found that I was never happy to have to play Thought Scour, and the Delve guys were good, but playing 4 of them isn't possible without Scour. Snap is obviously a good card, but never felt anywhere near as powerful as he feels in decks with Bolt/Kcommand.

I ended on Grim Flayer because I think that GB has missed something by straight replacing Dark Confidant with Tireless Tracker. While Tracker is obviously insane if the game goes even decently long, what she ISN'T is a 2 drop. I think the deck really wanted another turn 2 proactive play. Grim Flayer doesn't have the synergies that he does in Abzan, but he can still clock people and filter our draws nicely while easily coming down on turn 2 (which is really why I'm taking him).

I'm playing Jace while most others aren't. The double blue is definitely rough, I know I'm making sacrifices by playing him (no Scavenging Ooze is the big one). But I think that BGx and UWx decks are going to pick up in the near future, and Jace is good against both of them. Also, getting countersquall against UW is another thing that this deck has over the other BG variants. Getting to protect against Terminus is a big deal.

I'll obviously keep testing and if you guys have any questions/criticisms I'll be happy to to listen to them. I'll do my best to justify my choices.

Can you explain what you mean? Thing in the Ice seems like the best option against humans, bridge vine, hollow one, bogles, and affinity.

Jace would fit my definition of greedy. He doesnt do a ton for the linear matchups and is really just there for the attrition based ones.

Thing seems the exact opposite. It isnt good against control or midrange but if your opponent doesnt have removal then thing is nuts in what are likely our worst matchups.

Yeah that was part of the reason why I wanted to try Thing so that we can have a mainboard way to "wipe the field". I'll be testing against humans tomorrow, I'll report back with results.

I would imagine the shadow of doubts are too cute and not worth the slot. It has synergy with assassin's trophy but it still probably isn't worth it. I would imagine that with 8 cantrips and snapcaster mage + spell being the highest cost play in the deck, 20 lands is pretty safe. If you can play serum visions over thought scour (if we decide that the Thing build doesn't need delve threats) then I think 19 land is doable. I'm also debating on trying out Jace, Vryn's Prodigy (although I think I just have a soft spot for the card and he probably isn't worth it).

Manamorphose might be worth testing, but again it may be too cute.

In the end, I think something close to what Hoogland suggested with delve guys and planeswalkers will be solid. I'm going to test Thing first though because it seems much more unexplored:

I would think you want 4 assassins trophy just because it gets better and better the more you cast. I think playing a couple pulse or abrupt decay in addition to trophy would be reasonable.

Has anyone tried out a thing in the ice build? I think trying to play too controlling is a trap having additional beaters is a good idea (thought scour and delve threats is another option). I kind of like the idea of thing against all the go-wide aggro decks popping up lately.

Sweet. That is very similar to what I am hoping to run this weekend at PPTQ. I think the biggest weakness of pure UW is the lack of card velocity and esper charm is the best one available (and it does so much more)

It sounds like what you're advocating is essentially the old suicide zoo lists? Rather than playing a ton of interaction, just go faster and play similar to infect?

Have you been playing more recently, Spooly? If so, what does your deck look like now?

Have you tried out Friedman's idea about the Faithless looting instead of manamorphose?

Do you have an updated list? Or is it the Same as before?

Is UW control greedy? Because that list has the exact same curve that most of UW lists I've seen. Except it doesn't have serum visions and instead has more removal spells because of the red.

I'm not trying to be belligerent, I'm genuinely asking because I dont have enough knowledge and experience to know these nuances.

I don't know why he is playing Jace, Vryn's Prodigy over Search for Azcanta (that was the first change I made). But I think that list is sweet. I haven't played a ton of matches with it yet (~15) but the mana hasn't been a problem yet (is that what you're referring to when you say it is greedy?). The mana is VERY similar to Shaun McClaren's winning list from a few years ago. It was Tec Edge then, obviously, but it was a 26 land list with 4 Tec Edge. Field of Ruin can eventually be a colored land, at least.


Overall though, the deck has been solid. It takes elements of UW Control's mana denial and pairs it with the more efficient red removal. The sideboard plan is almost transformational and lets you switch between UWR control and UWR tempo, which has been great for the matchups that you need to apply pressure to them.