People are either super high or lukewarm on opt. I think the main question is whether we value going deeper in our deck or value the instant speed. I think serum is just better turn one and better late game when we have extra unused mana. Opt is better with snap, etc. I've been a fan of sv a long time so I'm leaning toward that being better. Nevertheless, I plan on testing opt just in case.
Played at a PPTQ in Southern California today, went 4-2 and got 11th place overall out of approx 37 people, my only losses to the 1 and 2 seed going into the top 8.
I went in expecting to play against a lot of red/green and artifact/colorless decks, which I, unfortunately, didn't face in any way.
My matchups were as follows:
Round 1 - 0-2 LOSS BR Goodstuff
Game 1 he starts off on a few Gifted Aetherborn which I never draw removal for, which was a super frustrating game to play. I don't have many things that can trade with it, and by the time I threw something in front of it, he had removal for all of my stuff.
Side:
-1 LtLH -1 Cryptic Command -1 Bitterblossom
+1 Hero's Downfall +1 Damnation +1 Engineered Explosives (I really wasn't sure what he was playing so this seemed to be the fairest trades given I only saw 2 drop creatures and removal)
Game 2 I draw absolutely nothing for the second time and just lose due to having no removal. This game was seriously frustrating for me, as it felt like an easily winnable matchup that just didn't pan out well because my deck didn't want to work for me.
Round 2 - 2-0 WIN Esper Mill
Game one I beat down with man lands because he couldn't mill me quickly enough. I ended up taking away his best cards (ensnaring bridge) with early game discard and kept them off the table to ensure the win.
Side:
-1 LtLH -2 Inquisition of Kozilek
+1 Echoing Truth +1 Negate +1 Dispel
Round 2 I get an early Liliana and they struggle to establish a board. I eventually get a ton of lands in play, ult Liliana giving them a choice of their lands or their Bridges, which they chose bridges. I top deck Echoing Truth and win.
Round 3 - 2-1 WIN Abzan Red
Game one I ended up getting a game loss due to a deck registration issue, so we went straight into game 2.
Game two I had a hand that was just a bunch of value cards, and they didn't play anything out very quickly. I answered things when needed and Liliana plus man lands eventually got me a win.
Side:
-2 Thoughtseize -2 Inquisition of Kozilek -1 LtLH
+2 Engineered Explosives +1 Damnation +1 Flaying Tendrils (He was playing Bobs and lingering souls, which Liliana could have also taken care of in hindsight) +1 Hero's Downfall
Game three I keep a hand with doubles in it for being semi thoughseize proof, and then my opponent got stuck on two lands after I resolved a liliana of the veil. I got there again by just beating down with manlands as per usual.
Round 4 - 0-2 LOSS 4 Color Humans
Let me preface this by saying this matchup is abysmal and I was not prepared to go against it in the slightest.
Game one I keep a removal light hand, and they end up running out creatures very quick. I end up getting stuck on 2 lands and lose pretty easily.
Side:
-1 Remand -1 Bitterblossom -1 Tasigur
+1 Damnation +1 Flaying Tendrils +1 Hero's Downfall
Game two I get stuck on lands again, and he plays Xathrid Necromancer into a board with already 2 creatures. I draw a wrath and manage to get rid of the creatures which leave behind zombies, only to get blown out by not drawing anything to remove them with after that point.
Round 5 - 2-0 WIN Abzan
Game one I expect to lose pretty quickly to Lingering Souls but didn't see any. I stabilize off of Bitterblossom and win quickly.
Side:
-2 Inquisition -2 Thoughseize
+2 Engineered Explosives +1 Damnation +1 Hero's Downfall
He sides into Leyline which is laughable as I got rid of all of my targetted discard, which is pretty nice. At this point, I just take over the game quickly using a tasigur which I protect through what felt like a million Path to Exiles, and got there.
At this point, we find out that there is little chance that an X-2 makes it into the top, but due to me losing to the top seeds and the rest of the people I played doing halfway decent, I decided I would stick around and try and win my last game.
Round 6 - 2-0 WIN UW Control
Game 1 I won from Bitterblossom. They didn't have much going on at all the entire game and most of their win conditions rely on resolving a planeswalker or just beating in with manlands which I didn't let them do.
Side:
-2 Inquisition -1 LtLH
+1 Dispel +1 Negate +1 Hero's Downfall
Game 2 took a while, but I eventually got there with man lands. I was glad I left in Thoughseize because I ended up remanding an Ojutai at one point which I thoughseized out of their hand, only to find out they had no removal at instant speed, so I beat in with manlands for the rest of the game.
I feel really indifferent because overall I feel like I did well but missing the top 8 was disappointing.
I was upset I didnt get any use out of Flashfreeze as well because the night before at FNM it actually was pretty great, but everyone seemed to audible to different things locally. I think the best thing I could do at this point is switch out LtLH in the main for something else, and move her to the sideboard in Flashfreeze's place. Everything else seems to be the right numbers, but sweepers will probably go back to 1 Languish 1 Damnation.
As per usual, if you guys have any questions always feel free to ask me anything. I'm in the discord as well so if you want to reach me there you always can.
Coming up soon I would also like to test out Jace, Cunning Castaway just as a little bit of spice. I had someone tell me today when I brought it up that I should just be playing Jace Beleren but I think since this Jace can still make dudes to close out games, I would like to test him a little bit before completely throwing the idea out the window. I think everything else in the deck is consistent enough to where I probably wouldn't change it too much.
Anyways, thanks for reading, hope you guys enjoy hearing about my tournament.
Congrats on the finish. My list is pretty similar to yours with a few slight changes. I'm wondering why you like languish over a second damnation. Do you think it is worth having your tasigur survive? Also, I've also considered the new Jace. He is very different from Jace Beleren. People tend to be very slow on trying new things. I think this Jace can be more useful for the reasons you pointed out.
While I agree doing our thing is important, I feel that effectively spending mana and being able to both pressure and interact are really the most important things to focus on. Serum does not pressure/interact, and only sometimes lets us spend mana effectively.
Nothing wrong with the card, but I feel that simply having more answers in my deck is preferable.
I'm on 3 cryptic, 3 mistbind, 7 manlands, 0 serum, and I'm on 25 lands with one of them being a cycling land. 24 lands feels like the minimum to me, even with serum visions. Stumbling on colors or quantity is a real beating for this deck quite often, and I hate having to cast sorceries to try to find my land drop for the turn.
I don't play faeries all that often anymore, but I always felt that many of the games where my deck didn't cooperate I would still be able to win. Sure, sometimes you're gonna draw an absolutely unwinnable pile, but most of the time, the game might be awkward but still maneuverable.
As for mulligans, I'm always loath to keep a 6 card clunker + serum visions. Sometimes I'm greedy and I'll keep, but far too often the serum visions will fail to find you sufficient "fixers" and you're left with a hand thats just as clunky as the 6 you kept. With a better cantrip (brainstorm/ponder in particular) that are much more able to fix bad hands, this is different, but serum visions is so negligible so often.
I'd definitely suggest trying the full set of thoughtseizes. You might end up vindicated after taking a ***** ton of damage, but you might be surprised.
I've tried heavy thoughtseize versions and serum versions of the deck recently. I'm currently on 4 serum, 2 thoughtseize, and 1 inquisiton with 24 land. The damage is very real in this deck even thought thoughtseize is amazing. I love serum right now. I definitely understand the argument about when you are spending mana, but I think the meta has changed and we usually have a little more time. AV may be better, but I like 4 snapcaster and I think pairing it with serum is best.
Here's my current list. Ive swapped discard for a thought scour and tasigur package. Working well so far however I've been overdrawing tasigur so may swap 1 for gurmag angler. Thought scour filling the yard has been useful with snapcaster too. What is everyone's thoughts on collective brutality? Thinking about bringing 2 in instead of spell snare. Anyway some feedback would be appreciated.
I've also recently switched to a discard-less list, running Valentin Mackl's grixis list. Red splash aside, I think 9 fetches are important to increase the likelihood of turn 2 tasigur, which is one of the strongest plays we have. Also, playing with scour makes us want the 4th snap, since our flashback targets become more consistent.
Ancestral Vision is just too slow against most match ups. I recently cut my 3 sb copies altogether before switching to the grixis list. You may opt to keep them in the sb if your meta has a lot of grindy decks like BGx, jund, DS lists, or control. Grixis DS runs stubborn denial so I wouldn't want AV against them.
I definitely like CB sb for burn, elves, and combo/coco decks, but I don't like it mb. Sorcery speed is a big hindrance when most of our deck operates at instant speed. I think 1 copy of murderous cut is a must for scour lists. I've liked the 1 mb spell snare in Mackl's list, but you may try cb in its place and see how it runs. I would absolutely run at least 2-3 cb across the 75.
By the time you run 9 fetches to support early tasigur, a red splash isn't really any extra risk. Kommand has been an awesome value engine every time I've cast it. Blood moon in the sb hasn't seen much use yet, but I like the red for kommand, anyway. I'd also advocate a 3rd vclique to help your tempo game. Cage in the sb is going to hurt you as well as your opponent; id add another nihil spellbomb or something else altogether like surgical extraction.
Watching Valentin Mackl's coverage at both GP Copenhagen and GP Las Vegas was really insightful to help see how he focus on a tempo strategy most games. Good luck!
Thanks for the feedback, ive just picked up 4 copies of leyline of the void for the sb so that will swap out my cages and spellbombs. I love vclique and snap and would happily go to 3 and 4 of them respectively if i can find the slots - i guess that would come from cutting AV from the main. With no discard suite i wanted another 1 drop to thoughtscour though. I considered murderous cut but thought that might be too much with the 3 tasigurs (1 of which is now an angler)
Can you post/ link me to your list? And in the current meta on a wider scale, where do you think AV belongs? MB or SB? I definitley want 3 in the 75
I'm currently running Valentin Mackl's grixis list. No one can really tell you what to run sb since it's a meta dependent choice, but I'd say AV doesn't belong in the 75 in the current meta. It's just a really slow card for such a fast paced format. Turn 1 suspend is an impact on your turn 5. It's good against grindy decks, and re most popular grindy deck is currently grixis Shadow which can just stubborn denial AV-feels bad man.
Mackl's list runs 3 tas 1 cut and it works fine for me. The increased fetch count is definitely a necessary part of running out turn 2 tas more often-can't turn 2 angler.
I also highly suggest you watch the coverage posted as the top comment in the Reddit thread. Mackl commentates his plays and it's very helpful to see/hear his tempo style strategy in his own words. Also, message ThatStoryTeller120 if you're interested in joining the faeries discord. Is a very helpful resource for instant feedback. Most of us aren't as frequent on here anymore
What is the discord group called? I'm having a little trouble finding it. Thanks
Ari Lax posted a video on SCG Premium: U/B Faeries In Modern.
Unfortunately I don't have premium so I can't see it. If any of you have it, please tell us if there's any relevant info.
I bought premium for the week just to watch - he's running mtgprice's list after he saw it on reddit. Currently watching the games.
Just a heads up in the future, most pros don't put in the work with the deck needed to play well with the deck. Most Faerie videos that pop up with some random pro trying it out are disappointing. Now if Christain Calcano put up a video I would watch that every day.
At the risk of sounding grumpy, I suggest if you want to discuss a UR Faeries build you start a thread for that. This is UBx Faeries, which plays a different game than UR does.
At the risk of sounding grumpy, I suggest if you want to discuss a UR Faeries build you start a thread for that. This is UBx Faeries, which plays a different game than UR does.
I think the point of this post is that the creator of the deck is SAM BLACK. If someone on that level creates anything remotely similar to our deck we should check it out.
I've played out about 200 sample hands to see if a Jund deck was even possible with the current lands available. I immediately found that the mana worked smoothly every time I could cast Traverse on Turn 1. Nearly any hand -- no matter how ugly the mana looked in the opening 7 -- played out perfectly if it started with an untapped green and a Traverse on Turn 1. Grab the correct basic and you can either hold the land in hand to allow your shadow-lands to enter untapped, or put it on the table to let battle-lands enter untapped, as needed.
Unless there's some secret formula for perfect on-curve three-color mana in this format that nobody has found yet -- I've looked, and I doubt it -- Traverse is the ONLY way I would even consider playing it. Maybe a control deck can suffer more tapped lands, but a midrange deck needs to interact on curve and early, the removal spells are not so cheap in this format that you can afford to putz around.
I started with a set of Traverse almost on accident because I wanted proactive sorceries I could play on Turn 1 to enable Corrupted Grafstone. I've since cut back on Grafstones after running the sample hands, that card might be a bust, but the set of Traverse is the glue for this deck, I'm sure of it.
One of the main reasons I started working on jund was bc of traverse. As I decided what I wanted to do with the deck I slowly cut back on traverse and now I am at zero. The card can be very powerful, but I don't think it is necessary if your third color is a splash that you won't need until late. I do think you can build your deck in a way that really takes advantage of traverse and if you are playing it you should do so. I don't think a one mana search for a land card is good enough, but the tutor ability is clearly very good.
This is the list I've been playing. I started out with cards like Arlinn and Traverse, but I have cut them and not missed them. The deck is really only
"splashing" (I used the term lightly) red for a few cards.
I'll stick to esper a little longer since i sold my tarpit's and damnations and I wouldn't feel comfortable to play ub without them. But unlike in the previous metas I'm not sure it's the better list. Wwhat brought me to esper was cutting discard for stronger board interactions, and while I still prefer sorin> kalitas (in combination with path) as a 4drop, my esper list has problems to reintigrate discrad. It will depend on the upcoming meta, if I tends to still be agressive I'll stick to the path/snapcaster combination, but if it get'S combo and control heavy discard gone be the key to success and I have rebuy tarpits.
Edit @zetsu:Remands allready change the data, but the impact of a fetchland is even heavier, with 4deltas on average the soi lands enter the battlefield tapped even more often then the spreadshead says.
decklist?
Page 277. Still not sure if I prefer verdicts or tasigurs though.
Why no Restoration Angel? Isn't she one the main reasons to splash white besides sorin?
I cut mistbinds for resto. She has less upside, but less downside. Blinking v clique and spell stutter is a thing.
@warewofford: I thought about Arlinn in the same way I thought about Gideon: both walkers will make a dude about 80% of the time when they come in play, then move on to their other abilities. Granted, Arlinn's plus abilities on both sides suit different strategies and she can't exactly win by herself, but let me tell you: dropping Chandra into a flipped Arlinn and using both of their +1s with another dude already on the board closes out games FAST.
After I posted my list I've been testing it out, and now that SCG Baltimore's results are out, I'm probably going to round up on all 4 Languish between main and side. I'm not sure cutting green is wise right now if you're expecting to blast Cryptolith Rite and Always Watching with Natural State.
I'll post my list later if you are interested. I feel like Arlin is slower than Gideon in a midrange strategy. I play den protector, advocate, and languish. I've been having a lo of success against most of the open decks. I used to play traverse the wild, but it wasn't exactly what I wanted to be doing.
Congrats on the finish. My list is pretty similar to yours with a few slight changes. I'm wondering why you like languish over a second damnation. Do you think it is worth having your tasigur survive? Also, I've also considered the new Jace. He is very different from Jace Beleren. People tend to be very slow on trying new things. I think this Jace can be more useful for the reasons you pointed out.
I've tried heavy thoughtseize versions and serum versions of the deck recently. I'm currently on 4 serum, 2 thoughtseize, and 1 inquisiton with 24 land. The damage is very real in this deck even thought thoughtseize is amazing. I love serum right now. I definitely understand the argument about when you are spending mana, but I think the meta has changed and we usually have a little more time. AV may be better, but I like 4 snapcaster and I think pairing it with serum is best.
What is the discord group called? I'm having a little trouble finding it. Thanks
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpvan17/trial-winning-decklists-2017-02-18
Just a heads up in the future, most pros don't put in the work with the deck needed to play well with the deck. Most Faerie videos that pop up with some random pro trying it out are disappointing. Now if Christain Calcano put up a video I would watch that every day.
I think the point of this post is that the creator of the deck is SAM BLACK. If someone on that level creates anything remotely similar to our deck we should check it out.
Sam Black is playing UR Faeries. If you have a subscription feel free to check it out. I won't have time to watch it until later.
One of the main reasons I started working on jund was bc of traverse. As I decided what I wanted to do with the deck I slowly cut back on traverse and now I am at zero. The card can be very powerful, but I don't think it is necessary if your third color is a splash that you won't need until late. I do think you can build your deck in a way that really takes advantage of traverse and if you are playing it you should do so. I don't think a one mana search for a land card is good enough, but the tutor ability is clearly very good.
"splashing" (I used the term lightly) red for a few cards.
2 Foreboding Ruins
1 Game Trail
4 Smoldering Marsh
3 Hissing Quagmire
3 Forest
4 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Cinder Glade
1 Llanowar Wastes
sorcery 8
4 Ruinous Path
2 Read the Bones
2 Languish
4 Oath of Nissa
creatures 15
4 Mindwrack Demon
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Den Protector
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
instants 5
3 Grasp of Darkness
2 Pulse of Murasa
planeswalkers 3
3 Chandra, Flamecaller
3 Radiant Flames
2 Pick the Brain
2 Transgress the Mind
1 To the Slaughter
2 Duress
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Languish
1 Ultimate Price
1 Read the Bones
I cut mistbinds for resto. She has less upside, but less downside. Blinking v clique and spell stutter is a thing.
I'll post my list later if you are interested. I feel like Arlin is slower than Gideon in a midrange strategy. I play den protector, advocate, and languish. I've been having a lo of success against most of the open decks. I used to play traverse the wild, but it wasn't exactly what I wanted to be doing.