I only want to ask: do you think the second mindslaver is really necessary in this fast aggro meta?
Thats a great question. It could certainly be cut and you wouldn't be wrong to do it. however, as mindslaver is one of the primary win cons sometimes its better to have three ways to find it vs just two.
TBH I have considered cutting the second slaver for a batterskull in the main. Something like:
Trinket mage/Tolaria West: The tutor package is amazing here. Find the land you need or a map. EE, tormods crypt, chalice, walking ballista, pithing needle if you wanted to run it. Between these two tutors you have lots of options.
Note: I'm not sure if it would be right to drop the trinket mage for a fabricate which would open up playing silent arbiter and batterskull at the cost of a 2/2 body. An additional maindeck life gainer would be huge in a phoenix/burn heavy meta.
Karn continuous to impress me. He competes with solemn for the 4 slot. I'm not sure it wouldn't be correct to cut solemn and run a second. He's great in control/midrange match ups and makes decent blockers in a pinch.
Angel vs Sundering titan: IDK which is the right choice. Run both? Angel won me a few games I would have lost had I had titan in her place. Titan would have been win more against jund, even to negative against phoenix or burn, and terrible against any mono colored deck (skred, green control) or something like affinity or tezzerator. For now I think its correct to run the angel which can at least block phoenix and is never really dead, even if sometimes it could be better.
R1: Terrible green deck. Free win.
R2: UR phoenix. Ended up going 1-1-0 with a tie this round. My opponent played super slow and by game three I probably would have won had he just gone a bit faster. In this matchup he was playing phoenix and thing in the ice. Repeal was of course excellent vs thing in the ice. I am playing a trinket mage package (MB maps, two chalice of the void, walking ballista; SB Engineered explosives, grafdigger's cage) so bringing in grafdigger's cage here was excellent. The card also has great game vs the new GU creature pod decks that are showing up, as well as splash hate vs random collected company decks. Additionally, surgical extraction was obviously key to target the phoenixes and ancient grudge they run. Chalice on one is very hard for them to deal with game one. Beware the grudges that get pitched to the GY.
R3: Jund which has to be one of our best match ups. Once you find and land a wurmcoil its lights out. Postboard you can bring in some dismember if you want and maybe remove platinum angel. Its a great matchup that you should win most times.
R4: Death shadow. G1 its important to repeal their death shadow. Going for the wurmcoil here should stabilize you. If you have tron up you can sometimes kill them with a mindslaver activation because at that point they are often at about 3 life. I actually thoughtseized targeting self and cracked a fetch to kill him with mindslaver. Postboard you can bring in the EE, dismembers. Surgical extraction seems like it would be good here but its a trap. You need to get a deaths shadow in the GY to make it work which is usually pretty hard unless we are already stabilized.
R5: Somehow a skredless red skred deck made it to the finals. As you know blood moon does little to slow us down nor does an ensnaring bridge. Resolve a wurmcoil, protect a platinum angel, or ugin them for the win. You have lots of choices and are heavily favored game one. Post board watch for abrade and maybe some GY hate for your mindslaver. Remove sundering titan and probably your chalices to bring in spatial contortion and maybe something like negate or spell pierce if you run them.
I havent played for months, so I need deck building advice. I'm aware the meta shifted and now I'm worried about burn, spirits and humans. Could you give me some deckbuilding advice?
BTW UR living end seems strong with electrodominance now
Thank you all
You should basically never be scared of living end. Chalice on 0 will essentially win you the game. Its one of our best matchups. For Burn you can play 2 wurmcoils, a copy of batterskull, or bottle gnomes(believe it or not its awesome; blocks 2/2s easily and can be sac in response to targeting) in the sideboard. Spirits and humans are decent targets for playing 1-2 copies of engineered explosives. You could also consider mainboarding some copies of spatial contortion.
Did anybody else see the U tron list that snagged the 1st place at the GP? I'm interested in a few things about that deck.
They cut all copies of remand
Two copied of nimble obstructionist; but that begs the question why?
Why play kefnet? Seems too slow for an aggro meta.
@topath118 I really like your list! It fits perfectly to the idea I have of the deck.
Against which decks is it tuned for?
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! The lists are always changing based on your local meta. Like I mentioned in my little write up Sundering Titan is a concession to the abundance of three color decks at my local store. If there were a significant number of lantern, combo, or decks low on removal I would consider the platinum angel instead. My list is definitely stronger vs graveyard with the surgical extractions and tormod's crypt. If there were a ton of burn I might consider some bottle gnomes in the sideboard. I've also seen some lists go above four pieces of removal (dismember and spatial contortion) I just never felt like I need to bring that many in from the SB.
On another note I've tried the bloody rabbit midrange deck. I think its a valid way to play the deck. Personally, I prefer the more reactive, draw go, toolbox style with the tutors (trinket and treasure) and a plethora of silver bullets. I feel like it gives me game against more decks where the midrange version might be stronger vs other midrange decks and maybe fast aggro.
I played against a mono red phoenix deck. It played similarly to a burn style deck. In this case a chalice on 1 pretty much sealed game one. I think tormods cypt and surgical extraction were pretty good game two. Both for stopping the phoenix and shrinking the graveyard for reveler. Wurmcoil is obviously key.
Just wanted to post a quick tournament report. Recent 4-0 in about a 30 man Monday Night Modern tournament. Matched against the following: Temur Goyf Tempo, Storm, Green Tron, Mono Red Phoenix.
Here are some thoughts about how individual pieces performed.
Trinket Mage: Originally I was skeptical of using him. This is actually the first time that I have had him in the deck. Other possibilities were fabricate or another treasure mage. He was better than I thought he would be. Against tokens the EE was a huge grab. Finding expedition map was usually a great decision; either to find tron lands or field of ruin against tron in the psuedo mirror. Against graveyard I was able to find Tormod's crypt out of the sideboard. If I needed a finisher walking ballista was a decent target to find too. Overall I will keep him going forward.
Karn, Scion of Urza: He came out in all of my match ups. Even against the fastet decks I played his ability is very strong. He acts as a distraction for our opponents. His token making also ends up being relevant if you have used maps, talismans, or multiple of the tokens on the field. Will definitely keep him around even if I don't move the artifact count up much.
Tolaria West: Proved its worth time and time again. Finding the last tron piece, academy ruins, EE, academy ruins, tormod's crypt. If you think of it as a 50/50 land tutor the ETB tapped clause hurts a lot less. Its essentially land number 24 which is always a flex spot anyways.
x2 River of Tears: I used a second tears in place of oboro. I didn't miss the oboro much and I figure with 4 phyrexian mana cards in the sb plus the ability to play EE for 2 it seemed good. Didn't hurt me and I think I will continue to use these going forward.
[]Sundering Titan[] vs []Platinum Angel[]: The sundering titan pulled huge work for me against the goyf deck. It was pretty dead vs tron and storm however. I'm still not sure which is the right one to pick. Titan can definitely get you ahead more, but angel is almost never dead game one. Very open to input about this choice.
[]Engineered Explosives[]: In the MB this cards was ok. I imagine if I had played against more creature aggro decks it would have shined more. Today it didn't help me much but for now it probably stays. Alternatively, the second walking ballista from the SB could be swapped for this since its always at least decent.
[]Surgical Extraction[]: This was an MVP out of the SB. It was live in almost every match up. Targeting a tron land after ghost quarter, hitting key combo piece against storm, locking out phoenix and other graveyard combos. Two feels great in the SB.
If anyone has any questions about match up specifics or wants to discuss specific card choices I'm all ears! The deck felt great and proved again if you know know how to pilot its the best tron.
I’ve been wondering for a while if the second tutor effect should be trinket mage, treasure mage or fabricate. For now I’m using trinket to get all our great small 1 ofs. The body is just too relevant.
Also I hear U tron just down 8th at a GP? That’s pretty good right.
Ok maybe it is decent. I just don’t think it will make it into my 75 over our other finishers.
Speaking of, I’ve noticed a lot of list cutting platinum angel? What’s up with that? Has the field become much more hostil towards her?
Few other thoughts. Why are most of the lists I see online running tormods crypt over Grafdigger cage? Seems better to have a long term lock and it’s only major downside is turning off snapcaster.
Also, if you had to run an extra tutor beyond the first treasure mage what would it be.
1. A second treasure mage
2. Trinket mage
3. Fabricate
I’m leaning toward fabricate because it’s so versatile for grabbing sb pieces or win cons. Obviously you lose the body. Looking forward to anybody’s opinion!
Elder deep fiend does not seem very good for how much you have to pay for him. He generates no card advantage, once on the board he is essentially just a goyf, his ability is not that exciting, he costs two UU. Rather have any of our other finishers or even on a direct comparison torrential gearhulk.
I'm picking up some pieces to rebuild this deck. I have two Chalice of the Void currently. Previously, I know people were running 4 chalices although it seems like 2 or none. What situation would have ya'll considering moving back up on the chalice count? I;m asking because I have the opportunity to move some smaller pieces for another chalice.
Spreading Seas is great against Tron obviously, and it’s nice that you can Repeal it and put it on another Tronland if they play a clone and you get value from the draws.
However Spreading Seas has other uses. Seas on a forest with two Utopia Sprawls on it? Fun. Seas to choke people’s mana. Seas on a Valakut. Hell I’ve even Seas’d my own lands to get more blue sources before.
Ghost quarter can do most of these things but you’re down a land. I run Field oR main (of course) but it can’t do the thing against Ponza.
But the main benefit to Seas is that it draws a card. It’s not a bad topdeck.
As for Field of Ruin, I’m of the opinion it’s a strictly better Ghost Quarter for us. It fixes our mana and more importantly does not put us down a land. The activation cost has never been an issue for me.
I think ghost quarter is not strictly worse only when paired with crucible of worlds.
I have one chalice and want more, but they are so expensive. There’s also EE. Also, expensive. Is it better to have 2 chalice or 1/1 split? Is there any point in more than 2 chalices?
Second, with so many ways to disrupt tron is there ever a world where expedition map isn’t the card to be playing? Is there any u tron decks that function without the maps?
Peope use to play 4 chalices. It was great when infect, burn, and affinity were 3/5 top decks. Now, the threats are more diverse so its not as good. I think a good way to think of this is that sun and moon used to be a deck which played 4 of them. That deck no longer exists. Still I think two chalice are good against burn, control (stops opt, bolt, path to exile) affinity on zero etc.
EDIT: Check out this card for the SB!
It could be pretty great vs burn, decks which go wide.
In my experience the rocks do a few things.
[1]. Accelerate. This is obvious, but can be important to hit our 4 drops earlier. A popular play would be T2 Talisman, T3 Solemn Simulacrum, T4 Wurmcoil engine.
[2]. U mana. Snapcaster needs double blue to work in our deck. By playing the rock you can play just one island and then go for the rest of the tron pieces.
[3]. Additional artifacts to discard for TFK or the new Karn -2.
I've noticed squelch has been cut pretty often from most SB these days. I think its interesting considering the prevalence of field of ruin. It was good against ghost quarter and it still seems good now. It also has the surprise factor that when you board it in sometimes you just stone rain your opponent when they activate a fetch. In the match ups its good in its actually great. Against Jeskai it hits their PW, Celestial collonade, and field of ruin. SO, the question remains why not run it?
One of the only answers that makes sense to me is that we just don't care as much anymore about assembling tron, especially in a rabbit style list. His list is essentially a more consistent midrange U deck vs a shok deck which is a toolbox deck.
Thats a great question. It could certainly be cut and you wouldn't be wrong to do it. however, as mindslaver is one of the primary win cons sometimes its better to have three ways to find it vs just two.
TBH I have considered cutting the second slaver for a batterskull in the main. Something like:
+1 Batterskull
+1 Fabricate
-1 Trinket Mage
-1 Mindslaver
But, I just haven't gotten to test that out often enough.
2 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster
1 Trinket Mage
1 Treasure Mage
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum angel
1 solemn simulacrum
Spells
3 Remand
2 Repeal
4 condescend
4 thirst for knowledge
1 ugin, the spirit dragon
1 karn, scion of urza
4 expedition map
2 chalice of the void
2 talisman of dominance
2 mindslaver
1 oblivion stone
lands
12 Tron Lands
6 island
2 river of tears
1 tolaria west
1 field of ruin
1 gemstone caverns
1 academy ruins
2 surgical extraction
2 spellskite
1 hurkyl's recall
1 ceremonious rejection
1 crucible of worlds
1 ghost quarter
1 grafdigger's cage
2 dismember
2 spatial contortion
1 engineered explosives
1 tormod's crypt
Few comments on choices:
Trinket mage/Tolaria West: The tutor package is amazing here. Find the land you need or a map. EE, tormods crypt, chalice, walking ballista, pithing needle if you wanted to run it. Between these two tutors you have lots of options.
Note: I'm not sure if it would be right to drop the trinket mage for a fabricate which would open up playing silent arbiter and batterskull at the cost of a 2/2 body. An additional maindeck life gainer would be huge in a phoenix/burn heavy meta.
Karn continuous to impress me. He competes with solemn for the 4 slot. I'm not sure it wouldn't be correct to cut solemn and run a second. He's great in control/midrange match ups and makes decent blockers in a pinch.
Angel vs Sundering titan: IDK which is the right choice. Run both? Angel won me a few games I would have lost had I had titan in her place. Titan would have been win more against jund, even to negative against phoenix or burn, and terrible against any mono colored deck (skred, green control) or something like affinity or tezzerator. For now I think its correct to run the angel which can at least block phoenix and is never really dead, even if sometimes it could be better.
R1: Terrible green deck. Free win.
R2: UR phoenix. Ended up going 1-1-0 with a tie this round. My opponent played super slow and by game three I probably would have won had he just gone a bit faster. In this matchup he was playing phoenix and thing in the ice. Repeal was of course excellent vs thing in the ice. I am playing a trinket mage package (MB maps, two chalice of the void, walking ballista; SB Engineered explosives, grafdigger's cage) so bringing in grafdigger's cage here was excellent. The card also has great game vs the new GU creature pod decks that are showing up, as well as splash hate vs random collected company decks. Additionally, surgical extraction was obviously key to target the phoenixes and ancient grudge they run. Chalice on one is very hard for them to deal with game one. Beware the grudges that get pitched to the GY.
R3: Jund which has to be one of our best match ups. Once you find and land a wurmcoil its lights out. Postboard you can bring in some dismember if you want and maybe remove platinum angel. Its a great matchup that you should win most times.
R4: Death shadow. G1 its important to repeal their death shadow. Going for the wurmcoil here should stabilize you. If you have tron up you can sometimes kill them with a mindslaver activation because at that point they are often at about 3 life. I actually thoughtseized targeting self and cracked a fetch to kill him with mindslaver. Postboard you can bring in the EE, dismembers. Surgical extraction seems like it would be good here but its a trap. You need to get a deaths shadow in the GY to make it work which is usually pretty hard unless we are already stabilized.
R5: Somehow a skredless red skred deck made it to the finals. As you know blood moon does little to slow us down nor does an ensnaring bridge. Resolve a wurmcoil, protect a platinum angel, or ugin them for the win. You have lots of choices and are heavily favored game one. Post board watch for abrade and maybe some GY hate for your mindslaver. Remove sundering titan and probably your chalices to bring in spatial contortion and maybe something like negate or spell pierce if you run them.
You should basically never be scared of living end. Chalice on 0 will essentially win you the game. Its one of our best matchups. For Burn you can play 2 wurmcoils, a copy of batterskull, or bottle gnomes(believe it or not its awesome; blocks 2/2s easily and can be sac in response to targeting) in the sideboard. Spirits and humans are decent targets for playing 1-2 copies of engineered explosives. You could also consider mainboarding some copies of spatial contortion.
Did anybody else see the U tron list that snagged the 1st place at the GP? I'm interested in a few things about that deck.
Thank you! The lists are always changing based on your local meta. Like I mentioned in my little write up Sundering Titan is a concession to the abundance of three color decks at my local store. If there were a significant number of lantern, combo, or decks low on removal I would consider the platinum angel instead. My list is definitely stronger vs graveyard with the surgical extractions and tormod's crypt. If there were a ton of burn I might consider some bottle gnomes in the sideboard. I've also seen some lists go above four pieces of removal (dismember and spatial contortion) I just never felt like I need to bring that many in from the SB.
On another note I've tried the bloody rabbit midrange deck. I think its a valid way to play the deck. Personally, I prefer the more reactive, draw go, toolbox style with the tutors (trinket and treasure) and a plethora of silver bullets. I feel like it gives me game against more decks where the midrange version might be stronger vs other midrange decks and maybe fast aggro.
The following was my decklist:
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Sundering Titan
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Trinket Mage
1 Treasure Mage
Spells (17)
4 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Remand
3 Repeal
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Ugin, The spirit Dragon
4 Expedition Map
2 Mindslaver
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Talisman of Dominance
1 Oblivion Stone
Lands (24)
6 Island
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruins
2 River of Tears
12 Tron Lands
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Walking Ballista
2 Spell Snare
1 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Dismember
1 Tormod's Crypt
Here are some thoughts about how individual pieces performed.
Trinket Mage: Originally I was skeptical of using him. This is actually the first time that I have had him in the deck. Other possibilities were fabricate or another treasure mage. He was better than I thought he would be. Against tokens the EE was a huge grab. Finding expedition map was usually a great decision; either to find tron lands or field of ruin against tron in the psuedo mirror. Against graveyard I was able to find Tormod's crypt out of the sideboard. If I needed a finisher walking ballista was a decent target to find too. Overall I will keep him going forward.
Karn, Scion of Urza: He came out in all of my match ups. Even against the fastet decks I played his ability is very strong. He acts as a distraction for our opponents. His token making also ends up being relevant if you have used maps, talismans, or multiple of the tokens on the field. Will definitely keep him around even if I don't move the artifact count up much.
Tolaria West: Proved its worth time and time again. Finding the last tron piece, academy ruins, EE, academy ruins, tormod's crypt. If you think of it as a 50/50 land tutor the ETB tapped clause hurts a lot less. Its essentially land number 24 which is always a flex spot anyways.
x2 River of Tears: I used a second tears in place of oboro. I didn't miss the oboro much and I figure with 4 phyrexian mana cards in the sb plus the ability to play EE for 2 it seemed good. Didn't hurt me and I think I will continue to use these going forward.
[]Sundering Titan[] vs []Platinum Angel[]: The sundering titan pulled huge work for me against the goyf deck. It was pretty dead vs tron and storm however. I'm still not sure which is the right one to pick. Titan can definitely get you ahead more, but angel is almost never dead game one. Very open to input about this choice.
[]Engineered Explosives[]: In the MB this cards was ok. I imagine if I had played against more creature aggro decks it would have shined more. Today it didn't help me much but for now it probably stays. Alternatively, the second walking ballista from the SB could be swapped for this since its always at least decent.
[]Surgical Extraction[]: This was an MVP out of the SB. It was live in almost every match up. Targeting a tron land after ghost quarter, hitting key combo piece against storm, locking out phoenix and other graveyard combos. Two feels great in the SB.
If anyone has any questions about match up specifics or wants to discuss specific card choices I'm all ears! The deck felt great and proved again if you know know how to pilot its the best tron.
Also I hear U tron just down 8th at a GP? That’s pretty good right.
Speaking of, I’ve noticed a lot of list cutting platinum angel? What’s up with that? Has the field become much more hostil towards her?
Few other thoughts. Why are most of the lists I see online running tormods crypt over Grafdigger cage? Seems better to have a long term lock and it’s only major downside is turning off snapcaster.
Also, if you had to run an extra tutor beyond the first treasure mage what would it be.
1. A second treasure mage
2. Trinket mage
3. Fabricate
I’m leaning toward fabricate because it’s so versatile for grabbing sb pieces or win cons. Obviously you lose the body. Looking forward to anybody’s opinion!
I think ghost quarter is not strictly worse only when paired with crucible of worlds.
Peope use to play 4 chalices. It was great when infect, burn, and affinity were 3/5 top decks. Now, the threats are more diverse so its not as good. I think a good way to think of this is that sun and moon used to be a deck which played 4 of them. That deck no longer exists. Still I think two chalice are good against burn, control (stops opt, bolt, path to exile) affinity on zero etc.
EDIT: Check out this card for the SB!
It could be pretty great vs burn, decks which go wide.
[1]. Accelerate. This is obvious, but can be important to hit our 4 drops earlier. A popular play would be T2 Talisman, T3 Solemn Simulacrum, T4 Wurmcoil engine.
[2]. U mana. Snapcaster needs double blue to work in our deck. By playing the rock you can play just one island and then go for the rest of the tron pieces.
[3]. Additional artifacts to discard for TFK or the new Karn -2.
One of the only answers that makes sense to me is that we just don't care as much anymore about assembling tron, especially in a rabbit style list. His list is essentially a more consistent midrange U deck vs a shok deck which is a toolbox deck.