How 'fast' does it close out games? That's my current issue with control not running Niv/Drake. It just takes a long time to close out which gives your opp more time to come back. I'm trying to figure out a nice fast closer in Esper.
Is anyone using Angrath? I'm grinding on Arena to try and get all the cards I need and I'm having a lot of success using him. Granted I'm playing BO1s. Playing Grixis btw.
I'm using a 1/1 split of him and Ral along with 2 Eldest and 2 Bolas as my wincons.
Game two was a little slower. He revealed O Stone to a Gob Guide and then tapped out to play Stars, etc. I had the Stony into Tree > Tree > Reck Wack into Command.
R3 vs UW Spirits
Win 2-0
Fairly straight forward match. Nothing of note. I was just way too fast for him. Didn't side as there wasn't really anything there to help this matchup in my board.
I did get an unofficial warning this match as I was joking with a friend for most of it, who was unfortunately standing behind my opp...a spectator notified the judge, who watched and saw nothing was being passed on, but spoke to me about it afterwards.
R4 vs Storm
Win 2-0
My opp had the round from hell. Mull to 5 both games and I always had the Bolt for his dudes.
Feeling really good here. Hadn't dropped a game or been dealt damage by my opponents yet. Swiss record 4-0-1. I finished first seed.
Top 8 vs RG Tron (R2 opp)
Game 1: I kept a weak 7 and he mulled to 5 and dropped a Wurmcoil on turn 4. I think I made a bad attack the next turn (Herb, Tree and 2 unrevolted Renegades into a Wurmcoil with Command), but unsure it really mattered.
Sided same as before
Game 2 I hit him for 15 on turn turn 2 or 3.
Game 3 was fairly back and forth. Nacatl > Herb > Tree > Reckless, he Clasms then I normal cast Gob Wack into Reckless for exact.
Win 2-1
Top 4 vs G Tron
Game 1 he thought he was safe to tap out and I hit him for 13 (leaving him at 1) from an empty board. He scoops.
Sided same as last round
Game 2 I mulled to 5 and flooded a bit bit still basically killed him. I would of won if the Fetch and Command were the other way on my library (Fetch was on top).
Game 3 He mulled to 5 and I Wacked him
Win 2-1
Finals vs Humans
We renegotiated the prize pool as I didn't want the invite so I came 2nd.
We then played it out for fun and I won 2-1. I sided wrong though, +2 Ghor-Clan +2 Path. I should've cut Spirit Guides (I think).
I swapped the boosters I won for store credit and bought most of the cards I borrowed for the day.
So I was finally able to attend my LGS for their weekly modern event. I went with Gruul Zoo.
R1 vs Grixis Control
Fairly easy 2-0 here. He had mana issues both games. Sided -4 bolt -1 command -2 herbalists +2 Thalia +3 Charm +2 RIP
R2 vs a weird reanimater deck running Worldspine and a GGX gain x life or remove a green card from hand and gain equal to power, grislebrand and boroborus (throws land at face)
2-0ed this. I think I got fairly lucky here in g2 (he missed a mana draw for 2 turns). Sided -4 Bolt +2 RIP +2 Palm
R3 vs Jeskai Control
I smashed G1 and flooded both game 2 and 3. I think I had 10ish lands by the end of both games... Sided -4 bolt -1 command +2 Thalia +3 charm
Questions
1. Is it better (in most matchups) to just drop my hand? Playing around wipes, etc of course. Or wait and have a 'combo' turn where I drop multiple BTE/Herbalists and a Bushwacker
2. Considering Dampening Sphere for my board, but I feel that would hurt me too much. Is Alpine Moon/Thalia Guardian enough for Storm (apparently is a popular choice for the local meta). Amulet of Safekeeping has also been suggested as a way to 'combat' Storm/Pyromancer decks.
3. Any changes or suggestions for both main and side? Expected meta is Tron (blue and normal), Hollow One, Storm, Boggles, Ux control (assuming UW or UWR) as well as Dredge. I'm debating a 2nd Foundry and have too many sb slots.
4. Bolt seems to be my most common board out. Is that 'normal'?
1: It depends on the matchup and your understanding of them. Pre-board, Jeskai only usually runs 1-2 supreme verdict, so I tend to be much more aggressive, post board they usually have around 3. Knowing that can help you be more aggressive against Jeskai. Against UW for example though, they usually have 3, so you have to just put them in a spot where they need verdict or they lose to your 3 creatures on the board. I would be careful to not overextend. Pressuring them to tap out and verdict you on 4 is great because then you can dump your hand for a hasty turn 5 kill.
2: I would not play damping sphere in small zoo, and I'm even replacing at least one copy in big zoo. I think Thalia/Teeg are your best options. I haven't played with Amulet so I'm not sure. Seems good against burn too.
3: I personally prefer Boros Charm as a 4 of somewhere, it's just too good at extra reach or protecting your team.
4: Bolt is great in the main but I can see why you'd take it out in numerous matchups. It's not a protection spell like AC/BC, and you don't usually need to bolt a creature. What matchups do you board it out and think that it may be wrong to do so in?
1. My understanding of the matchups is limited as I've only just started to get into modern (from standard, where I usually play UB or UBx control, so my understanding of how to aggro isn't amazing either). I just don't have the format knowledge to control well currently in modern, hence aggro at least until I get a handle on modern. Thanks for the insight vs control!
2. That lines up with my thinking actually. I'll stick with Thalia then, might try and find room for a 3rd. Or even 2 Teeg (assuming I can find them).
3. I started with it as a 4of and didn't think I'd really have a matchup that I'd play 4. I guess vs control? I'll try and find room for the 4th.
How needed is Palm? Vs tron I'll probs just go 2 maybe Thalia (draw), 2 path, 2 stony (cut bolts and maybe simian - draw).
4. There's none in particular. I'm just wary of cards I seem to cut in lots of matchups, if that makes sense? I think the only matchups I don't cut in it are vs aggro where path isn't as needed.
I'm also confused a little regarding Vial matchups, particularly Wg hatebears (can't seem to beat) and humans/hollow one (little to no exp). Do I just try and out aggro them? Or go more 'tempo'. Is palm for the human/hollow matchup?
@r497 very true (I had actually forgotten about that mode of k cms, seeing it was rarely used in std). Consider it cut.
I'm currently in preparation for a PPTQ (big deal for me as I don't get to many tournaments). I'll be taking Zoo, but Hierarchs and Goyfs are unavailable for me currently (both borrow or buy). I have currently decided on an aggro RGw and have a few questions regarding play and sideboard choices. Decklist will be at the bottom. I have gone through the videos in the Primer.
Questions
1. Is it better (in most matchups) to just drop my hand? Playing around wipes, etc of course. Or wait and have a 'combo' turn where I drop multiple BTE/Herbalists and a Bushwacker
2. Considering Dampening Sphere for my board, but I feel that would hurt me too much. Is Alpine Moon/Thalia Guardian enough for Storm (apparently is a popular choice for the local meta). Amulet of Safekeeping has also been suggested as a way to 'combat' Storm/Pyromancer decks.
3. Any changes or suggestions for both main and side? Expected meta is Tron (blue and normal), Hollow One, Storm, Boggles, Ux control (assuming UW or UWR) as well as Dredge. I'm debating a 2nd Foundry and have too many sb slots.
4. Bolt seems to be my most common board out. Is that 'normal'?
Decklist is below. Regarding my side, Sphere, Moon and Amulet are cards I'm considering but they aren't in there yet.
I had my first proper few games with Zoo (Revolt) the other day. Got demolished by gw taxes. We played 2 matches. I lost both matches 2-1. Winning both game ones. Made a hell of a lot of misplays though. I enjoyed the deck but felt feast or famine.
EDIT: He played with a board and I hadn't completed building mine yet.
Hi guys. Looking at getting into modern a little (side format), so looking for something that can randomly steal wins, is decent and not too pricey.
I saw Jeff Hoogland playing a revolt zoo list on stream yesterday and thought that it looked pretty fun. I had a quick look through the thread and didn't find anything on it (primer and a couple of pages back).
Probably a little late, but Brad Nelson has put up an article about Esper on SCG. Unfortunately premium, so unsure how many people can read it all. The list is in the first bit (anyone can read).
I was listening to Todd Anderson's commentary in the SCG event this weekend (pre show) and he was talking about really liking Approach atm. As it just closes games instead of the stall outs that seem to happen. With the 7 life being just enough of a buffer.
Do you think we could look at that in the board as a 1 or 2 of? Specifically in the UB Teferi lists. Just as a way to diversify as the WW for Lyra could be problematic if people are going that route.
EDIT: Autocorrect...
That was a call for the PT because his team felt like constrictor decks would be more popular. Uw has a major problem vs that decks board plan because they do not need to attack to beat you anymore so settle and seal away become blanks. If you are base ub you do not have those problems. In my opinion ub should be a gearhulk deck so you can close games out with gearhulk unlike the no wincon teferi decks.
Thanks for the reply. Just a thought haha
EDIT: I do like Guillaume's list. Just unsure in 28 lands. I know he's running the 8 cycle lands. I just feel 28 is too many, but it obvs worked for him.
I was listening to Todd Anderson's commentary in the SCG event this weekend (pre show) and he was talking about really liking Approach atm. As it just closes games instead of the stall outs that seem to happen. With the 7 life being just enough of a buffer.
Do you think we could look at that in the board as a 1 or 2 of? Specifically in the UB Teferi lists. Just as a way to diversify as the WW for Lyra could be problematic if people are going that route.
Haha. Well you're actively testing the deck, have solid looking lists, sb plans and are posting here regularly :). I'm currently just working off theory and my experience as a player on making changes. Just so hard to find std games currently where I am.
Esper is making a nice showing at the PT. End of D1 was an undefeated and an x-1. Both playing Esper. I'm sure there were others that I missed.
As mentioned the x-0 is UBTeferi and the other one looks similar. I'm fairly sure I saw an Eldest Reborn in the hand of the x-1 player in coverage near the end of r5 vs ub mid.
EDIT: Esper has a 75% conversion rate to d2. 20 in d1 and 15 in d2.
EDIT2: Here's the UB Teferi list that T8ed. Every other deck is either Mono R or RB. All aggro except 1 RB Mid. Ernest Lim is the player.
I'm using a 1/1 split of him and Ral along with 2 Eldest and 2 Bolas as my wincons.
R1 vs Jeskai Control
Win 2-0
Win the roll and go first. I just went completely under him. Turn 3 kill in game one.
Sided -4 Bolt -1 Swiftspear +3 Charm +2 Thalia
Game two he dropped Dampening Sphere on turn 2. I had the Spirit Guide to Herbalist > Wack him. Another turn 3.
R2 vs RG Tron
Won 2-0
I win,the roll again. Turn 1 a Nacatl which he pyroclasms. I then go Tree > Tree > Reck Wack into Command next turn.
Sided -4 Bolt -2 Spirit Guide +2 Thalia +2 Stony +2 Revelry
Game two was a little slower. He revealed O Stone to a Gob Guide and then tapped out to play Stars, etc. I had the Stony into Tree > Tree > Reck Wack into Command.
R3 vs UW Spirits
Win 2-0
Fairly straight forward match. Nothing of note. I was just way too fast for him. Didn't side as there wasn't really anything there to help this matchup in my board.
I did get an unofficial warning this match as I was joking with a friend for most of it, who was unfortunately standing behind my opp...a spectator notified the judge, who watched and saw nothing was being passed on, but spoke to me about it afterwards.
R4 vs Storm
Win 2-0
My opp had the round from hell. Mull to 5 both games and I always had the Bolt for his dudes.
Sided -1 Herbalist -2 Spirit Guide -1 Swiftspear +2 Thalia +2 RIP
R5 vs Burn
ID
Feeling really good here. Hadn't dropped a game or been dealt damage by my opponents yet. Swiss record 4-0-1. I finished first seed.
Top 8 vs RG Tron (R2 opp)
Game 1: I kept a weak 7 and he mulled to 5 and dropped a Wurmcoil on turn 4. I think I made a bad attack the next turn (Herb, Tree and 2 unrevolted Renegades into a Wurmcoil with Command), but unsure it really mattered.
Sided same as before
Game 2 I hit him for 15 on turn turn 2 or 3.
Game 3 was fairly back and forth. Nacatl > Herb > Tree > Reckless, he Clasms then I normal cast Gob Wack into Reckless for exact.
Win 2-1
Top 4 vs G Tron
Game 1 he thought he was safe to tap out and I hit him for 13 (leaving him at 1) from an empty board. He scoops.
Sided same as last round
Game 2 I mulled to 5 and flooded a bit bit still basically killed him. I would of won if the Fetch and Command were the other way on my library (Fetch was on top).
Game 3 He mulled to 5 and I Wacked him
Win 2-1
Finals vs Humans
We renegotiated the prize pool as I didn't want the invite so I came 2nd.
We then played it out for fun and I won 2-1. I sided wrong though, +2 Ghor-Clan +2 Path. I should've cut Spirit Guides (I think).
I swapped the boosters I won for store credit and bought most of the cards I borrowed for the day.
4 wild nacatl
3 goblin guide
1 monastery Swiftspear (stand in for Goblin Guide)
4 burning-tree emissary
4 hidden herbalists
2 goblin bushwacker
4 reckless bushwacker
4 narnam renegade
2 simian spirit guide
2 ghor-clan rampager
4 lightning Bolt
4 atarka's command
4 bloodstained mire (stand in for arid mesa)
4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heath
1 forest
1 mountain
2 stomping ground
1 temple garden
1 sacred foundry
3 boros charm
2 destructive revelry
2 rest in peace
2 stony silence
2 deflecting palm
2 Thalia, guardian of thraben
2 path to exile
R1 vs Grixis Control
Fairly easy 2-0 here. He had mana issues both games. Sided -4 bolt -1 command -2 herbalists +2 Thalia +3 Charm +2 RIP
R2 vs a weird reanimater deck running Worldspine and a GGX gain x life or remove a green card from hand and gain equal to power, grislebrand and boroborus (throws land at face)
2-0ed this. I think I got fairly lucky here in g2 (he missed a mana draw for 2 turns). Sided -4 Bolt +2 RIP +2 Palm
R3 vs Jeskai Control
I smashed G1 and flooded both game 2 and 3. I think I had 10ish lands by the end of both games... Sided -4 bolt -1 command +2 Thalia +3 charm
Ended up coming 2nd which I was happy with.
4 wild nacatl
4 goblin guide
4 burning-tree emissary
4 hidden herbalists
2 goblin bushwacker
4 reckless bushwacker
4 narnam renegade
2 simian spirit guide
2 ghor-clan rampager
4 lightning Bolt
4 atarka's command
4 arid mesa
4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heath
1 forest
1 mountain
2 stomping ground
1 temple garden
1 sacred foundry
3 boros charm
2 destructive revelry
2 rest in peace
2 stony silence
2 deflecting palm
2 Thalia, guardian of thraben
2 path to exile
I would love to fit in a 4th charm and a teeg in the board, but unsure where.
Was my sideboarding alright?
1. My understanding of the matchups is limited as I've only just started to get into modern (from standard, where I usually play UB or UBx control, so my understanding of how to aggro isn't amazing either). I just don't have the format knowledge to control well currently in modern, hence aggro at least until I get a handle on modern. Thanks for the insight vs control!
2. That lines up with my thinking actually. I'll stick with Thalia then, might try and find room for a 3rd. Or even 2 Teeg (assuming I can find them).
3. I started with it as a 4of and didn't think I'd really have a matchup that I'd play 4. I guess vs control? I'll try and find room for the 4th.
How needed is Palm? Vs tron I'll probs just go 2 maybe Thalia (draw), 2 path, 2 stony (cut bolts and maybe simian - draw).
4. There's none in particular. I'm just wary of cards I seem to cut in lots of matchups, if that makes sense? I think the only matchups I don't cut in it are vs aggro where path isn't as needed.
I'm also confused a little regarding Vial matchups, particularly Wg hatebears (can't seem to beat) and humans/hollow one (little to no exp). Do I just try and out aggro them? Or go more 'tempo'. Is palm for the human/hollow matchup?
@r497 very true (I had actually forgotten about that mode of k cms, seeing it was rarely used in std). Consider it cut.
Questions
1. Is it better (in most matchups) to just drop my hand? Playing around wipes, etc of course. Or wait and have a 'combo' turn where I drop multiple BTE/Herbalists and a Bushwacker
2. Considering Dampening Sphere for my board, but I feel that would hurt me too much. Is Alpine Moon/Thalia Guardian enough for Storm (apparently is a popular choice for the local meta). Amulet of Safekeeping has also been suggested as a way to 'combat' Storm/Pyromancer decks.
3. Any changes or suggestions for both main and side? Expected meta is Tron (blue and normal), Hollow One, Storm, Boggles, Ux control (assuming UW or UWR) as well as Dredge. I'm debating a 2nd Foundry and have too many sb slots.
4. Bolt seems to be my most common board out. Is that 'normal'?
Decklist is below. Regarding my side, Sphere, Moon and Amulet are cards I'm considering but they aren't in there yet.
2 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Hidden Herbalists
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
Land (18)
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Path to Exile
2 Deflecting Palm
3 Boros Charm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Damping Sphere
2 Alpine Moon
2 Amulet of Safety
EDIT: He played with a board and I hadn't completed building mine yet.
I saw Jeff Hoogland playing a revolt zoo list on stream yesterday and thought that it looked pretty fun. I had a quick look through the thread and didn't find anything on it (primer and a couple of pages back).
What are peoples thoughts on it?
List for reference
2 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Hidden Herbalists
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
Land (18)
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Path to Exile
4 Boros Charm
2 Deflecting Palm
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
I'm basically missing goblin guides, goblin bushwacker, 3 nacatl, 3 apes and a couple of sideboard cards (kataki and stoney).
http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/37270_The-Guide-To-Standard-Esper-Control.html
Thanks for the reply. Just a thought haha
EDIT: I do like Guillaume's list. Just unsure in 28 lands. I know he's running the 8 cycle lands. I just feel 28 is too many, but it obvs worked for him.
Do you think we could look at that in the board as a 1 or 2 of? Specifically in the UB Teferi lists. Just as a way to diversify as the WW for Lyra could be problematic if people are going that route.
EDIT: Autocorrect...
Esper is making a nice showing at the PT. End of D1 was an undefeated and an x-1. Both playing Esper. I'm sure there were others that I missed.
As mentioned the x-0 is UBTeferi and the other one looks similar. I'm fairly sure I saw an Eldest Reborn in the hand of the x-1 player in coverage near the end of r5 vs ub mid.
EDIT: Esper has a 75% conversion rate to d2. 20 in d1 and 15 in d2.
EDIT2: Here's the UB Teferi list that T8ed. Every other deck is either Mono R or RB. All aggro except 1 RB Mid. Ernest Lim is the player.
3 Torrential Gearhulk
3 The Scarab God
Instant (25)
1 Commit // Memory
3 Syncopate
4 Fatal Push
3 Cast Down
2 Censor
4 Disallow
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Vraska's Contempt
Enchantment (1)
1 Arguel's Blood Fast
4 Island
4 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Aether Hub
1 Field of Ruin
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Fetid Pools
4 Drowned Catacomb
Legendary planeswalker (2)
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1 Cast Down
4 Negate
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
3 Duress
1 Essence Scatter
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Forsake the Worldly
EDIT3: He got knocked put in his T8 match. 3-0. Vs RB. G3 was won with Angrath taking his Hulk and hitting for exactsies.
Thanks so much for all that, humouring all my questions haha. That is true, I forgot you put a bit in about some of those cards earlier (apologies).
All that has made me rethink my build a little.
I'll have to theory a bit more soon. Testing is currently hard for me to come by.