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  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    I actually don't think the skulk commander is as good as Cold Eyed Selkie. Islands are very common in Magic, especially in vintage and legacy but skulk means you can't really raise the creature's power and keep your unblockability.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Ok good news guys

    https://twitter.com/SheldonMenery/status/1310725509857370112?s=20

    Sheldon and the RC committe Are listening to us, taking notes and weighing options Basicly they are discussing TWD cards

    and they will have something to say and will definatly be before the secret lair drops

    in other words This looks like a sign TWD cards will probably be considered silver bordered In commander format
    Honestly? Good.

    "Oh you want this new commander that has a playstyle you like? Well why didn't you buy it in this limited window for this price? Not in your country? OOooh don't worry, you can just buy it for this marked up price from someone on ebay. Thats fine right?"


    Disgusting.


    Slant your clearing not seeing what they are talking about

    the point is the RC of commander are looking into it for us

    man did this secret lair left a taste so sour to you it like you didn't hear what they said at all

    and plus if you read my comments in this thread i hate these and they outright lied to us about the promise they made back when Nalathni Dragon appeared which was "promise to never print functionally unique promos" they broke they promise and this really ticked me off
    I'm pretty sure the Nalathni Dragon prescident has been pretty well annihilated hundreds of times over. I already listed a huge variety of products that have functionally unique cards that are quite possibly available in smaller quantities than a print to demand secret lair.
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Ok good news guys

    https://twitter.com/SheldonMenery/status/1310725509857370112?s=20

    Sheldon and the RC committe Are listening to us, taking notes and weighing options Basicly they are discussing TWD cards

    and they will have something to say and will definatly be before the secret lair drops

    in other words This looks like a sign TWD cards will probably be considered silver bordered In commander format
    Honestly? Good.

    "Oh you want this new commander that has a playstyle you like? Well why didn't you buy it in this limited window for this price? Not in your country? OOooh don't worry, you can just buy it for this marked up price from someone on ebay. Thats fine right?"


    Disgusting.


    Slant your clearing not seeing what they are talking about

    the point is the RC of commander are looking into it for us

    man did this secret lair left a taste so sour to you it like you didn't hear what they said at all
    You mean besides the fact that they are "talking it over" and how they invited people over to their discord to weigh in. And yeah the discussion around the card was mostly negative towards wizards decision and wanted it considered banned to send a message to wizards that this practice is unacceptable. Literally the chat was flying with how fast it was going.

    Its not about power. Its about limited availability for a FOMO effect as Wizards has actually stepped into the ring of selling singles of brand new cards that are not reprints.

    And yea I see your edit, about how they broke their promise with selling functionally unique promos. To use the fallout meme to represent the playerbase: "Nobody liked that".
    How is this any different than, say, the holiday gift box with 5 unique foils?
    Quote from Thenightmare »
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Ok good news guys

    https://twitter.com/SheldonMenery/status/1310725509857370112?s=20

    Sheldon and the RC committe Are listening to us, taking notes and weighing options Basicly they are discussing TWD cards

    and they will have something to say and will definatly be before the secret lair drops

    in other words This looks like a sign TWD cards will probably be considered silver bordered In commander format
    Honestly? Good.

    "Oh you want this new commander that has a playstyle you like? Well why didn't you buy it in this limited window for this price? Not in your country? OOooh don't worry, you can just buy it for this marked up price from someone on ebay. Thats fine right?"


    Disgusting.


    I'm 100% with you on this. My first take was that "Hey these look fun" but the more I thought about it the more this conclusion seemed to be obvious. Vanity cards are one thing but selling unique cards at a premium price for a limited time is just gross. The EDH/Commander community needs to voice their disapproval of this tactic to WotC now or it's just going to get worse, I'm already kind of sick of the secret lairs and if this is the direction they want to take it, we should all be standing against it on principle alone.
    Every card is available for a limited time and in a limited quantity. This one is simply not sold in stores and is made in as large a quantitiy as desired unlike From the Vault or Commander Arsenal.
    Quote from user_938036 »
    It isn't a slippery slope. Wizards only makes money the very first time a card is sold. They have no real incentive to make prohibitively expensive cards they won't be able to reprint at any time they want because the reprint will make them money. The few exclusive cards they have reprinted are the cards that tend to command high prices because they're so unique or powerful. In order to buy into this argument, we have to assume that Wizards' goal isn't to make money, but simply to piss in your Cheerios because they hate their players. If they wanted to make a super powerful or unique card that commands a high price tag, why not simply print it at mythic in a higher priced supplemental set? Also, despite the ramp up of exclusive cards, why hasn't there been another problem since the time walk? The mistakes tend to be cards from very early in the process of figuring out how to make exclusive cards.
    There is no slippery slope fear here. There is only the lack of confidence that Wizards can balance cards such that they don't accidentally print a card far stronger than intended and a lack of confidence in their willingness to reprint indemand cards at a reasonable pace. Both of which are supported by history.

    As for their track record. Unique Buy a box promos were pitched as fun cards that wouldn't be constructed playable. They made 10 before abandoning it due to player feedback. Two were standard power houses one of which went on to warp larger formats. If you expect the same failure rate then 20% of the cards they make in these lairs will be format staples which is a huge problem. They do listen so we need to be very loud immediately to stop this before they print a broken card in an exclusive product.
    So, we've had exclusive cards in a bunch of preconstructed products over the years. We've had commander decks, planechase decks, planeswalker decks,theme boosters,global series gift box,


    But that's not, IMO, a good comparison to this at all.

    Those were far, far more available, among other differences.





    Also, is it just me, or does WotC seem to be suffering from a form of corporate-level amnesia? The BaB issue w/ Nexus of Fate being something that they should have taken a hint from.
    It's actually 2 cards total that really caused problems out of hundreds. True Name Nemesis did in legacy and Nexus of Fate did in standard. They obviously took a hint from Nexus and never released another exclusive BaB promo that caused problems. People are blowing this way out of proportion and this is apparently 5 different unique cards and tokens for $50. Its price per card isn't necessarily going to be any worse than lots of other exclusive product cards. They're also all legendary so far and probably not going to be played a ton other than as a commander. So, how many gold cards are played in legacy/vintage? Infact, how many cards over 2 mana are? They tend to be really absurd on the power level.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    It isn't a slippery slope. Wizards only makes money the very first time a card is sold. They have no real incentive to make prohibitively expensive cards they won't be able to reprint at any time they want because the reprint will make them money. The few exclusive cards they have reprinted are the cards that tend to command high prices because they're so unique or powerful. In order to buy into this argument, we have to assume that Wizards' goal isn't to make money, but simply to piss in your Cheerios because they hate their players. If they wanted to make a super powerful or unique card that commands a high price tag, why not simply print it at mythic in a higher priced supplemental set? Also, despite the ramp up of exclusive cards, why hasn't there been another problem since the time walk? The mistakes tend to be cards from very early in the process of figuring out how to make exclusive cards. Now, Atraxa was a weird spot but that was really the first pro planeswalker commander AND the first ever crop of 4 colored commanders.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    We've had commander decks, planechase decks, planeswalker decks,theme boosters,global series gift box, Game Night, buy a box promos, and now this.


    Every exclusive card in commander decks, planechase decks, planeswalker decks, theme boosters and whatever can be reprinted. These ones can't.
    Do you understand now?
    While that's true, how many exclusive cards have ever been reprinted? Obviously, this is a bad place for aggressively costed cards or ones with new super splashy abilities, but one of these is Fleshbag Marauder and the other is Cloudgoat Ranger. We've seen plenty of cards like them and plenty of nickel bin uncommons. Making them into a mid range mana cost multicolored legendary doesn't exactly inspire me to see this as a problem. It actually sounds more like fear mongering from people that just hate secret lair on principle.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    Ok, lets take a step back everybody, sure this is new and scary, but rather than freak out and cause a panic like every other new, scary thing, we should try and put it into perspective. So, we've had exclusive cards in a bunch of preconstructed products over the years. We've had commander decks, planechase decks, planeswalker decks,theme boosters,global series gift box, Game Night, buy a box promos, and now this. So, out of all those cards, how many have actually become a problem? Nexus of Fate and True Name Nemesis. That's 2 cards out of hundreds so over 99% of the cards have been fine. Most of those cards were standard legal including the Nexus problem. So, assuming they continue making merely interesting legendary cards like they've been doing and not take risks with combo potential or print something crazy like 3 mana Progenitus, why is this anything more than an entertaining side novelty that you can choose to buy/play if you're a big fan of the niche product? The cards aren't terrible, but they aren't even close to legacy/vintage playable other than technically you could put them into a deck and it would be a legal deck. I mean really, we're going to get 20+ commander legends in precon products every year anyway and have gotten a bunch every single year from 2013 on and we did in 2011. 2012 had the planechase decks which also had exclusive commanders and the buy a box promos were almost all legendary multicolor cards. Ponies the Galloping was limited edition and you can still get it for under $100 and the 3 cards can be had for far less than tons of commander staples. I think the constructive thing, rather than whine about it is to insist that Wizards not push the cards super hard. I don't think they are likely to, though.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ZNR] Full set reveal
    I'm pretty sure people are being excessively harsh on party. Yes, a full party is optimal, but the cards are also costed so they're bat ***** insane with a full party. They're so over the top stupid then that there's no comparison unless you count Ancestral Recall that's so broken it hasn't been seen since Unlimited. I think people are forgetting that party creatures already count as party of 1 alone. Party of 2 is quite effective.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ZNR] Lithoform Engine— MTGGoldfish preview
    I actually suspect an errata that lets you choose new targets for the permanent spell will be coming and it was simply an oversight like the moonfolk card in Kamigawa or the artifact creature in Worldwake. I looked up the rules and it turns out you're actually right, though. I don't think the rules need much of an update other than creating a token copy of the permanent spell when the permanent spell copy resolves.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ZNR] Lithoform Engine— MTGGoldfish preview
    Quote from Xcric »
    more! add more! I SAID ADD MORE!

    its okay. i like that it can copy permanents.

    oh, and for those claiming this'll eat the ban hammer in edh... yeah no it won't.

    we already see the first two copy effects on multiple things within the format, and that's not game breaking. copying permanents is also nothing new and there are far more combos that exploit that more easily without breaking the format...

    that you have to pay mana and tap it down really limits it. honestly, i don't think it even makes the cut in a lot of decks. it'll be that hot new artifact everyone jams into all their edh decks for a few weeks after release, then promptly cuts because its just not doing enough. like they did with strionic resonator.
    Well, I'll agree that it won't be banned, ever. It has nothing in common other than card type with the absurd time waster. I'll disagree that it'll get cut, though. Strionic Resonator and similar cards need a critical mass of stuff to copy where this needs nonland cards. That makes it much easier to jam into decks and get value. The question is more whether you can afford to activate after the thing goes onto the stack.
    Quote from Minoke »
    I wonder how this interacts with Auras or the Mutate mechanic - if you copy an Aura or mutating creature spell, would both have to go on the same target? The final mode says nothing about 'pick new targets'.
    Quote from seilaoque »
    Quote from Minoke »
    I wonder how this interacts with Auras or the Mutate mechanic - if you copy an Aura or mutating creature spell, would both have to go on the same target? The final mode says nothing about 'pick new targets'.


    yeah, seems like you'd have to make both auras target the same permanent.
    I have good news. Auras that aren't cast entering the battlefield simply attach themselves so you can actually even put it onto a shroud creature. Just don't go for protection because that will still remove it.
    Quote from m_pathogen »
    This card gives me hope that we’ll one day see my custom Clone that can be an Instant or Sorcery as well as any permanent.
    That's going to have to be worded as a modal instant spell. Choose one - Copy up to one target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
    Create a token that's a copy of target creature.

    If you don't want to make a token, you can't really put them both onto the same card because one is an ability that creates a copy on the stack and one is a replacement effect that modifies how a creature enters the battlefield. Yeah, the rules are mean. I guess you could literally turn a creature into "up to one target instant/sorcery on the stack" and have the creature resolve as a clone if you don't, but that would be very wordy and confusing.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on MDFC are gonna show up in kaldheim and strixhaven
    I'd probably look toward the instant/sorcery set for eternal playable MDFC. That will probably have an unusually high amount of instant/sorcery cards where older formats often have a mana cap of 2 or something with a few exceptions for really absurd cards. That's where I'd expect to see the Shatters, weird narrow counterspells, and generally low powered stuff that's pointed toward some eternal niche. The land set is really a bad place for such things since older decks really skimp on land, especially vintage, and adding extra land stapled to a main deckable spell could severely warp the format. Just imagine if we, say, staple something like Manamorphose to a land even without the cantrip. It would be steaming garbage in standard, but I could see it getting the ban hammer in legacy or modern. I'm not sure Lotus Petal would even be that hot in standard. Yeah, it's gotten banned numerous times, but the card disadvantage just isn't worth it unless you're going to gain such an absurd advantage it doesn't matter. The decks that generally use it aim to win right now and I don't see any card in standard being castable with one extra mana just utterly breaking the game open consistenly like storm or Tolarian Academy decks. Sure it would have been broken in affinity standard, but then it effectively functioned as a Mox that could sac for an extra mana.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on MDFC are gonna show up in kaldheim and strixhaven
    I think this is really missing the major selling point of MDFC. They aren't to be the most flashy or exciting cards ever. They're the glue that makes things possible that never were before. They let you hide complexity from newbies by making nice, clean, simple cards that fill multiple roles in multiple decks. It also lets you do things like instants and sorceries the set that because you can put a creature on one side and an instant/sorcery on the other. It will help massively with as fan issues in addition to complexity and they have all the versatility of a charm/split card. People were already jamming extra lands into their landfall limited decks. This lets you jam a whole hell of a lot of extra lands into your deck. It lets you jam a whole ton of artifacts/ enchantments into decks without worrying about disenchant being a million times more powerful than it normally is. You could even print one that's a vanilla creature on both sides with different creature types for tribal. This is a mechanic for the people that are excited for the nuts and bolts of Magic to celebrate, not that flashy thing that's going to wow. It probably is the reason core sets have died, though. It presents the expert player a difficult choice while giving the newbie a highly grokkable card that isn't littered with text they won't understand. Sure, I don't see them often being powerful enough for competitive eternal formats, but that's the case with most cards ever printed. When you see them, just ignore them just like you ignore Grizzly Bears or the 9000th 3/3 for 4 with marginal ability.


    So let's just put them in every set and be happy with it? There won't be a set where they won't help, mechanically.
    Zendikar? Half spell, half land
    Theros? Half creature, half enchantment
    Strixhaven? Half instant, half creature
    Ixalan? Half dinosaur, half pirate
    Why bother having normal card at this point? You can put a land behind every card in existance and be happy with that. No more mana screw!
    And no more flavor.

    What will Kaldheim catch? Half creature half equipment? Half snow half nonsnow? No one of those will actually make sense.
    Assuming I were designing Kaldheim and snow were in, I would probably use MDFC to do half snow land, half snow permanent. The snow lands in limited lead to feel bad picks where you have to waste a relatively early draft pick on a basic land if you're going to go snow. I'd do snow basic in addition to it so you can pick them higher if you opt into going hard into snow, but you can use it even if you aren't. It's a great way to up the as fan just like if I were designing a set for host/augment, I'd probably do half host, half augment and have dedicated slots for them like the contraptions got. It's the most significant tool ever in the history of Magic for any A+B mechanic. I'm quite aware some people have a bitter hatred of dfc in general, but mechanically, they're a huge boon and the rest of us adore them. I'm actually not sure why MDFC are anti flavor, though. Two different tribes on each side could be flavored like companions. Half equipments could have an opposite side that cares about equipment. You could do constellation or metalcraft on cards with an enchantment or artifact back respectively. You could do riders and their mounts as MDFC. Vehicles could have their driver. Obviously, characters that are partners but aren't using the partner mechanic make sense as MDFC. This is actually one of the most kick ass mechanics for vorthos just like dfc werewolves. No more will you be forced to jam two characters onto the same card due to space issues in a set. They each get their own unique card complete with a full art box and maybe even their own flavor text. Hell, you could have done all 15 theros gods with their weapons since they could all be weapon on the other side. This is clearly a win for timmy since you can print a colossaly expensive card on one side and a card you can normally cast on the other. It's a win for johnny because it lets you do a+b on the same card. It's a win for spike because it ups consisitency. It's a win for vorthos big time because it lets you cram way more legends into a set and not care about duplicates. The only people this is bad for are the minority that hate DFC. You can't please everyone all the time. I adore Colossification but plenty of people think it's flaming garbage, which, from pure power level is true, but it's so cool.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on MDFC are gonna show up in kaldheim and strixhaven
    Bad news imo. Not because i think the mechanic is inherently weak or boring (well, i do, but whatever), but because i don't it's a good fit for "viking plane" and "mage school" plane.
    I think this is really missing the major selling point of MDFC. They aren't to be the most flashy or exciting cards ever. They're the glue that makes things possible that never were before. They let you hide complexity from newbies by making nice, clean, simple cards that fill multiple roles in multiple decks. It also lets you do things like instants and sorceries the set that because you can put a creature on one side and an instant/sorcery on the other. It will help massively with as fan issues in addition to complexity and they have all the versatility of a charm/split card. People were already jamming extra lands into their landfall limited decks. This lets you jam a whole hell of a lot of extra lands into your deck. It lets you jam a whole ton of artifacts/ enchantments into decks without worrying about disenchant being a million times more powerful than it normally is. You could even print one that's a vanilla creature on both sides with different creature types for tribal. This is a mechanic for the people that are excited for the nuts and bolts of Magic to celebrate, not that flashy thing that's going to wow. It probably is the reason core sets have died, though. It presents the expert player a difficult choice while giving the newbie a highly grokkable card that isn't littered with text they won't understand. Sure, I don't see them often being powerful enough for competitive eternal formats, but that's the case with most cards ever printed. When you see them, just ignore them just like you ignore Grizzly Bears or the 9000th 3/3 for 4 with marginal ability.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Fatal Push and it's a Box Topper
    So, what, exactly, is wrong with Fatal Push? Is it no longer a staple or something? It still seems to be rather pricy for an uncommon, so I'd assume it is.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [2XM] Stonehewer Giant— Chinese (Traditional) Magic Facebook preview
    This is certainly one spicy meatball. Yeah, it's too slow for "real" magic, but it's gotten dumber and dumber over the years when you get it rolling like Sovreigns of Lost Alara. WTF +20/+20 out of nowhere? That's just silly.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [2XM] face to face games - Treasure mage - Sundering Titan
    Sundering Titan certainly has historical value to the game. It's certainly not the most fun card, but it is very powerful and that's a big part of it. We haven't seen cards like it again and it lets the griefers do their griefing in Double Masters limited. It's like Stasis, Ensnaring Bridge, Blood Moon, etc. relics of the past and the kind of thing we'll probably never see again in new cards. It's kind of like the Sinkhole masters reprint. I don't think it's really played anywhere, but it's a good reminder of just how unfun this kind of thing is for people that didn't live through it and think maybe it wasn't so bad. It's also for the people that enjoy griefing people.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [M21] Full set spoiler
    Quote from Faruel »
    I am honestly disappointed. The power level and the color balance are okay overall. But waiting for 1 year to get any new Angel creatures and than just getting a reprint is a major let down for me. I was hoping for at least 2 uncommons. Instead we got some angel token generators. Sigh...
    Zendikar is next which is known for angels. I'd be surprised if commander legends didn't have some as well.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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