So I've been playing a deck based on a Sam Black design from December, I think the deck has legs but I can't see a thread for it on here so thought I'd start one. Without further ado here's the list I palyed most recently:
The above isn't particualrly tuned or anything, but it's a starting point. Is anyone else out there messing about with this concept and if so what are you running?
If we get this going as a proper thread I might see if I can get a proper primer going as I think there's a lot to unpack here and I'd love to see this deck evolve into something thats a genuine part of the meta.
So when Pioneer first appeared I was on the Nexus deck, that obviously got banned so I moved my blue green pile to Turbofog, if it's of interest my list is as follows:
That having been said, I agree with the other commenters, the format is super hostile to this sort of deck right now and I probably wouldn't recommend playing it if I'm honest.
I've liked Thopter Sword quite a bit, it helps against the aggro decks and means you've always got a mana sink that actually wins the game (I find this deck stabilises well but then sometimes can't capitalise on that!), I'm also a fan of Cloudthresher as just a big dumb flash threat that can take care of spirits, Lingering Souls, Arclight Phoenix etc
Hi folks, it's been a long time since I last posted here but I've just thought about Karn, the Great Creator in this deck and I am hyped for having the ability to play 7 Belchers. Going to brew up a list now...
This deck has been off my mind for a while but I think you're right there have been some really great additions lately. I'll have to see what I can brew up...
Hi all, I've been playing Thalia, Guardian of Thraben hate bears for a while and really enjoying it, so when a friend suggested I build a Saskia the Unyielding hatebears deck and get access to the sweet hate bears in Jund colours I was pretty excited. Here is what I've come up with so far:
I'm looking for ideas or potential improvements, this is mostly hypothetical at the moment so budget not an issue, anything goes so long as you can give me a convincing reason why your suggested change would be good.
Current things I'm considering include cutting the Stoneforge package, probably retaining Greaves and Cloak, and adding in some bigger hatefolk like Ob Nixilis, Unshackled or something like Athreos, God of Passage to keep the hate flowing. Additionally Iroas, God of Victory has massively over performed when testing on XMage so any more cards that fulfil a similar role would be awesome!
Field of Ruin seems like a really interesting option for us. Given that we can't afford Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge it might be the best option for us...
Round 1: Ad Nauseam [Match 1-2, Tournament 0-1]
Round 1 was Ad Nauseam. In the dark I kept a reasonable game one opener which was basically lands and removal, great against most decks in the format, but not this one! Without having the right disruption my opponent's turn 5 kill wasn't impacted at all. Game 2 was both of us sitting there until my opponent decided to go for it, we had a fairly epic counter battle over Ad Nauseam which I came out of victorious and proceeded to beat him down with Torrential Gearhulk. Game 3 I kept a mediocre 6 and got run over by his turn 4 kill with Pact of Negation back up.
Round 2: UW COntrol [Match 2-0, Tournament 1-1]
As a slight aside, I love playing control mirrors. Having been on this deck for a couple of years I have more experience with the play patterns than many of the folks who've only just picked up UW since it became popular. This edge was fairly apparent in this match as my opponent did things like tap out to be aggressive with Celestial Colonnade, which I would then kill, untap and cast an uncontested Cruel Ultimatum. Both games saw me resolve multiple Ultimatums and carry on.
Round 3: Eldrazi Tron [Match 1-2, Tournament 1-2]
Game 1 I managed to win by drawing a bunch of Terminate and Damnations whilst beating down with Snapcaster Mage (who managed to full 20 points by himself!). Games 2 and 3 I feel I got a little unlucky. In both games I got stuck on three lands for ages whilst my opponent didn't and hit Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger or just beat down with Thought-Knot Seers whilst Damnation sat in my hand, uncastable. In my 25 land deck I don't feel like this should happen too much, but there you go.
Round 4: Merfolk [Match 0-2, Tournament 1-3]
Game 1 he plays a Kira, Great Glass Spinner on turn 3 and I never get the removal spells to tackle it. Game 2 is reminiscent of the match just before. I sit there with Anger of the Gods and Damnation in hand for about three turns with Watery Grave, Blood Crypt and Island in play before losing to the beats. Again, come out of this feeling a bit unlucky as mana screw means I now can't lose any more matches if I want to make day 2.
Round 5: Affinity [Match 2-0, Tournament 2-3]
This remains one of our best matchups, especially if you are playing 3 Kolaghan's Command and 3 Damnation in the main! Game 1 I win fairly easily, game 2 I take a little longer trying to answer my opponent's Inkmoth Nexus, but still win handily.
Round 6: Burn [Match 1-2, Tournament 2-4]
From one of our best matchups to one of our worst. Game 1 I somehow scrape a win after stabilising at 5 with multiple cards in my hand vs nothing in his. Game 2 I start beating him down with Snapcasters fairly early and get him down to 4 life and dead on board but he topdecks the Lightning Bolt to kill me (fair enough, it is most of his deck after all!). Game 3 is much less close, he burns me out fairly easily. I feel like I play this reasonably well, and gave myself the best possible chance to win, but it is an awful matchup and I came away feeling pretty crushed that I was now dead for day 2, however, I decided to play out my rounds regardless.
Round 7: Affinity [Match 2-1, Tournament 3-4]
I said this was a good matchup but this was a closely fought match. Game 1 my opponent manages to chip my life total down after Dispatching my Torrential Gearhulk (which came as a surprise!). Games 2 and 3 were hard fought but my removal did its job and I managed to get the wins.
Round 8: RUG Scapeshift [Match 2-0, Tournament 4-4]
I won't lie, I think I got pretty lucky in this match. My opponent stumbled a little and I took advantage of that, killing them fairly quickly in both games with Countersqualls along side Snapcaster Mages and Lightning Bolts. This was aided by the same stuff I commented on in the UW control match, I had a better idea of what to counter when than my opponent did, so I could do things like bait a Cryptic Command and Dispel it.
Round 9: Merfolk [Match 1-2, Tournament 4-5]
The last match of the day was against Merfolk again. Game 1 he wins almost uncontested and I don't draw enough removal. Game 2 sweepers him Dismembering mean that he has no creatures and low life which Creeping Tar Pit mops up. Game 3 he has a huge amount of countermagic, and I can't resolve anything so I lose!
All in all I am reasonably happy with my play over the weekend, and also reasonably happy with my deck. My losses were:
2 Merfolk (1 on the back of mana screw)
1 Eldrazi Tron (on the back of mana screw)
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Burn
If I had been able to predict this was the field I was going to play against then I would have brought 2 Spell Snare, a card I cut before the event but now regret losing. I'm not entirely sure where they'll fit in my list but I think I will try and make space. They would have helped a lot in my second loss to Merfolk and might have given me the time I needed to get the second win against Burn. Other than that I mostly just need to draw slightly more lands than I did in some of my games! I didn't feel like I really punted any games through poor play and I am happy about that.
All this said, I've now not played anything but Cruel Control for months so I'm going to have a little break from the deck! I'll still be lurking though so feel free to ask questions.
4 Thoughtseize
3 Final Payment
4 Doom Foretold
4 Treacherous Blessing
3 History of Benalia
4 Trial of Ambition
3 The Birth of Meletis
3 Oath of Kaya
2 Starfield of Nyx
1 Elspeth's Nightmare
1 Castle Locthwain
5 Plains
4 Godless Shrine
4 Shambling Vent
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Temple of Silence
1 Castle Ardenvale
2 Cry of the Carnarium
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Kunoros, Hound of Athreos
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Fragmentize
2 Nyx-Fleece Ram
1 Noxious Grasp
The above isn't particualrly tuned or anything, but it's a starting point. Is anyone else out there messing about with this concept and if so what are you running?
If we get this going as a proper thread I might see if I can get a proper primer going as I think there's a lot to unpack here and I'd love to see this deck evolve into something thats a genuine part of the meta.
4 Fog
4 Haze of Pollen
3 Root Snare
4 Dictate of Kruphix
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Sphinx's Tutelage
2 Aetherspouts
4 Folio of Fancies
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Elixir of Immortality
3 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
4 Opt
2 Castle Vantress
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Mystic Sanctuary
2 Forest
4 Island
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Lumbering Falls
2 Blast Zone
Sidebaord
2 Negate
2 Return to Nature
1 Carnage Tyrant
2 Display of Dominance
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ashiok, Dream Render
2 Aether Gust
2 Mystical Dispute
That having been said, I agree with the other commenters, the format is super hostile to this sort of deck right now and I probably wouldn't recommend playing it if I'm honest.
EDIT: My decklist hadn't imorted all that well.
I've found I die to Madcap hitting belcher more than I'd like.
I'd tend to avoid firing with more than two lands in deck of possible, but sometimes you need the hail marys
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
3x Breeding Pool
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Watery Grave
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Blast Zone
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Field of Ruin
1x Forest
3x Island
1x Swamp
Creatures
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Fatal Push
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Assassin's Trophy
4x Growth Spiral
3x Remand
1x Search for Azcanta
2x Sword of the Meek
3x Thopter Foundry
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
4x Cryptic Command
3x Hieroglyphic Illumination
3x Mystical Teachings
4x Wilderness Reclamation
1x Nexus of Fate
1x Dispel
1x Nature's Claim
1x Disdainful Stroke
2x Negate
1x Nimble Obstructionist
1x Pulse of Murasa
1x Vendilion Clique
3x Ravenous Trap
2x Consume the Meek
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Cloudthresher
I've liked Thopter Sword quite a bit, it helps against the aggro decks and means you've always got a mana sink that actually wins the game (I find this deck stabilises well but then sometimes can't capitalise on that!), I'm also a fan of Cloudthresher as just a big dumb flash threat that can take care of spirits, Lingering Souls, Arclight Phoenix etc
EDIT: Here's the list
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Arbor Elf
4x Caravan Vigil
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Nissa's Triumph
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Wall of Roots
2x Haze of Pollen
4x Recross the Paths
4x Search for Tomorrow
3x Goblin Charbelcher
4x Karn, the Great Creator
4x Chancellor of the Tangle
1x Welding Jar
1x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Nature's Claim
1x Damping Sphere
1x Defense Grid
1x Torpor Orb
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Sun Droplet
1x Goblin Charbelcher
1x Witchbane Orb
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Wurmcoil Engine
The Baron doesn't seem to be an option for your commander on the deck builder...
It's a link to a deck!
I'm looking for ideas or potential improvements, this is mostly hypothetical at the moment so budget not an issue, anything goes so long as you can give me a convincing reason why your suggested change would be good.
Current things I'm considering include cutting the Stoneforge package, probably retaining Greaves and Cloak, and adding in some bigger hatefolk like Ob Nixilis, Unshackled or something like Athreos, God of Passage to keep the hate flowing. Additionally Iroas, God of Victory has massively over performed when testing on XMage so any more cards that fulfil a similar role would be awesome!
EDIT: Bane of Progress also seems pretty legit if I'm taking out the swords and Siege Behemoth seems pretty goof with Saskia, meanwhile Charging Cinderhorn helps hate on control/combo decks with a low creature count and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight helps let me attack.
So we've got the full Ixalan spoiler now, outside of Opt (which I'll be testing for sure) has anyone seen anything else they like the look of?
I don't hate Entrancing Melody as a sideboard card, a bit like Threads of Disloyalty with more flexibility.
In theory Bloodcrazed Paladin is an interesting card to follow a Damnation with but in reality he's just going to be too slow 99% of the time.
Search for Azcanta is an interesting card but I don't think we really need more late game grind.
I badly want to live the Primal Amulet dream but a 4 mana artifact is just too slow
Anything I missed?
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Countersquall
3x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Cruel Ultimatum
3x Cryptic Command
3x Damnation
3x Fatal Push
1x Fetid Pools
3x Island
3x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Steam Vents
2x Swamp
4x Terminate
4x Think Twice
2x Torrential Gearhulk
1x Wandering Fumarole
2x Watery Grave
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Countersquall
1x Crumble to Dust
2x Dispel
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Terminate
1x Vandalblast
Round 1: Ad Nauseam [Match 1-2, Tournament 0-1]
Round 1 was Ad Nauseam. In the dark I kept a reasonable game one opener which was basically lands and removal, great against most decks in the format, but not this one! Without having the right disruption my opponent's turn 5 kill wasn't impacted at all. Game 2 was both of us sitting there until my opponent decided to go for it, we had a fairly epic counter battle over Ad Nauseam which I came out of victorious and proceeded to beat him down with Torrential Gearhulk. Game 3 I kept a mediocre 6 and got run over by his turn 4 kill with Pact of Negation back up.
Round 2: UW COntrol [Match 2-0, Tournament 1-1]
As a slight aside, I love playing control mirrors. Having been on this deck for a couple of years I have more experience with the play patterns than many of the folks who've only just picked up UW since it became popular. This edge was fairly apparent in this match as my opponent did things like tap out to be aggressive with Celestial Colonnade, which I would then kill, untap and cast an uncontested Cruel Ultimatum. Both games saw me resolve multiple Ultimatums and carry on.
Round 3: Eldrazi Tron [Match 1-2, Tournament 1-2]
Game 1 I managed to win by drawing a bunch of Terminate and Damnations whilst beating down with Snapcaster Mage (who managed to full 20 points by himself!). Games 2 and 3 I feel I got a little unlucky. In both games I got stuck on three lands for ages whilst my opponent didn't and hit Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger or just beat down with Thought-Knot Seers whilst Damnation sat in my hand, uncastable. In my 25 land deck I don't feel like this should happen too much, but there you go.
Round 4: Merfolk [Match 0-2, Tournament 1-3]
Game 1 he plays a Kira, Great Glass Spinner on turn 3 and I never get the removal spells to tackle it. Game 2 is reminiscent of the match just before. I sit there with Anger of the Gods and Damnation in hand for about three turns with Watery Grave, Blood Crypt and Island in play before losing to the beats. Again, come out of this feeling a bit unlucky as mana screw means I now can't lose any more matches if I want to make day 2.
Round 5: Affinity [Match 2-0, Tournament 2-3]
This remains one of our best matchups, especially if you are playing 3 Kolaghan's Command and 3 Damnation in the main! Game 1 I win fairly easily, game 2 I take a little longer trying to answer my opponent's Inkmoth Nexus, but still win handily.
Round 6: Burn [Match 1-2, Tournament 2-4]
From one of our best matchups to one of our worst. Game 1 I somehow scrape a win after stabilising at 5 with multiple cards in my hand vs nothing in his. Game 2 I start beating him down with Snapcasters fairly early and get him down to 4 life and dead on board but he topdecks the Lightning Bolt to kill me (fair enough, it is most of his deck after all!). Game 3 is much less close, he burns me out fairly easily. I feel like I play this reasonably well, and gave myself the best possible chance to win, but it is an awful matchup and I came away feeling pretty crushed that I was now dead for day 2, however, I decided to play out my rounds regardless.
Round 7: Affinity [Match 2-1, Tournament 3-4]
I said this was a good matchup but this was a closely fought match. Game 1 my opponent manages to chip my life total down after Dispatching my Torrential Gearhulk (which came as a surprise!). Games 2 and 3 were hard fought but my removal did its job and I managed to get the wins.
Round 8: RUG Scapeshift [Match 2-0, Tournament 4-4]
I won't lie, I think I got pretty lucky in this match. My opponent stumbled a little and I took advantage of that, killing them fairly quickly in both games with Countersqualls along side Snapcaster Mages and Lightning Bolts. This was aided by the same stuff I commented on in the UW control match, I had a better idea of what to counter when than my opponent did, so I could do things like bait a Cryptic Command and Dispel it.
Round 9: Merfolk [Match 1-2, Tournament 4-5]
The last match of the day was against Merfolk again. Game 1 he wins almost uncontested and I don't draw enough removal. Game 2 sweepers him Dismembering mean that he has no creatures and low life which Creeping Tar Pit mops up. Game 3 he has a huge amount of countermagic, and I can't resolve anything so I lose!
All in all I am reasonably happy with my play over the weekend, and also reasonably happy with my deck. My losses were:
2 Merfolk (1 on the back of mana screw)
1 Eldrazi Tron (on the back of mana screw)
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Burn
If I had been able to predict this was the field I was going to play against then I would have brought 2 Spell Snare, a card I cut before the event but now regret losing. I'm not entirely sure where they'll fit in my list but I think I will try and make space. They would have helped a lot in my second loss to Merfolk and might have given me the time I needed to get the second win against Burn. Other than that I mostly just need to draw slightly more lands than I did in some of my games! I didn't feel like I really punted any games through poor play and I am happy about that.
All this said, I've now not played anything but Cruel Control for months so I'm going to have a little break from the deck! I'll still be lurking though so feel free to ask questions.