I've used cloudshift to save creatures from removal, reset fink's persist, on flickerwisp during my opponents upkeep to deny mana by exiling a land until EOT, and general utility. It's especially good with sculler
Sculler has been amazing. knowing what to play around being able to take away some of their cards has been key. Thoughtseize or inquistion may help here, but sculler is a creature which makes all the difference.
I tried grixis delver for a while, albeit in a pre khans modern, splashing for thoightseize inquisition and removal. One problem I faced a lot was that between the thoughtseizes probes and shocklands I was taking a lot of self inflicted damage
This build lacks thoughtseize, but would you consider putting inquisition in?
Also. How would you manage the life loss?
Going back to standard UR delver builds, combust is good sideboard material as a way to kill rhinos and exarchs without spellskite ruining your day. For that reason it may be fair to have at least one go for the throat in the grixis board.
I can imagine that UR would still have trouble with a goyf though. Without cruise in the picture would spite of mogis do enough?
Thundermaw and Stormbreath are not really what this deck wants to do. Bomby hasted threats are more midrangey and this deck wants cheap threats.
Pyromancer is usually played with a bit of protection or unless you are confident your opponent does not have the turn two removal if you're on the play, or if you have other threats and want to just draw out removal.
The common opinion on pike from what i heard is that its a win more card. swords are better when you are behind and need to catch up, while pike only lets you win faster if you're already ahead, that is you have already cast a lot of spells.
Wind zendikon allows them to effectively bounce your land with any creature removal, which is disastrous for your tempo.
I think that the key difference between our deck and the U/R version is that the U/R version is a lot more explosive, fast and reliable. Grixis sacrifices reliability and explosiveness for more mid game potential and raw power. As a tempo based deck our late game is often bad relative to the meta as we severely lack inevitability.
Is cryptic command really the right direction for this deck? Will it be better to keep your spells cheap and efficient so dark confidant does not burn you too much and also more importantly so we don't have the tendency to drag into late game? I think burn is a decent move here since it lets us wrap up the game more quickly.
On another note, has anyone tried a 17 creature build? If so how well does delver work? I like the miser's lavamancer but I am really reluctant to cut the fourth pyromancer since it is so important to the deck
Turn is more restrictive though. It can't help you win counter wars, it can't counter chord of calling against pod, and to be honest I can't think of a lot of sorcery speed removal in modern
I went down to 18 lands since i dont have fetches. hence the four probes are necessary to dig for lands and also i have the faithless looting to act as a pseudo sorcery brainstorm to either dig or to replace dead draws. so far i havent had much problems with 18 lands. the fact that the deck only has 17 two drops 1 three drop and 24 one drops helps.
Dispel is in the maindeck since spell snare is situational and to be honest rather irrelevant. Dispel is cheap, has targets in every matchup, and does a much better job at protecting your threats from path, bolt helix or disfigure.
im thinking about go for the throat or dimir charm again in the maindeck. it feels good to have a removal spell that dodges spellskite. unfortunately gftt is bad against affinity and charm is bad against zoo and affinity.
R Sorcery
Spite of Mogis deals damage to target creature equal to the number of instant and sorcery cards in your graveyard. Scry 1.
I didn't see any thread for this card yet, so i decided to create one. This card seems very good for UR delver lists in modern. previously the deck struggled against tarmogoyfs and scoozes and used to run sideboard flame slashes. This seems almost strictly better than flame slash most of the time and could be the answer to tarmogoyf in UR delver lists. It's still rather weak to scooze though. any thoughts?
Has anyone tested rise//fall? It seems very good as a one of or as a sideboard card. Early game it's a pseudo hymn and late game it recovers a threat or lets you reuse up to two snapcasters
Death's Shadow doesn't really fit into the game plan really. By the time it's at a respectable size, it would most likely be quite late into the game. It's just not consistent enough as a threat, especially since its usually a late game threat. To get it large enough means dark confidant has probably been on the board for a while which means you are most likely already ahead anyway.
This is the list I plan on running. Any suggestions?
The Pain Seers really should be dark confidants and I definitely need fetches in my mana base but those are just for budget reasons. What I'm thinking about now is the counterspell ratio. Also is creeping tar pit worth it? Especially since you are using up a 4 mana on your turn just to get that three damage.
4 Isolated Chapel
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Eiganjo Castle
6 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Path to Exile
2 Cloudshift
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Blade Splicer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Mangara of Corondor
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Hushwing Gryff
I've used cloudshift to save creatures from removal, reset fink's persist, on flickerwisp during my opponents upkeep to deny mana by exiling a land until EOT, and general utility. It's especially good with sculler
Sculler has been amazing. knowing what to play around being able to take away some of their cards has been key. Thoughtseize or inquistion may help here, but sculler is a creature which makes all the difference.
This build lacks thoughtseize, but would you consider putting inquisition in?
Also. How would you manage the life loss?
Going back to standard UR delver builds, combust is good sideboard material as a way to kill rhinos and exarchs without spellskite ruining your day. For that reason it may be fair to have at least one go for the throat in the grixis board.
I can imagine that UR would still have trouble with a goyf though. Without cruise in the picture would spite of mogis do enough?
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Blood Moon
3 Vapor Snag
2 Dispel
2 Thought Scour
1 Dismember
1 Mutagenic Growth
4 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Steam Vents
3 Island
2 Mountain
This is the deck I run and its been great. I don't know how to emphasize this but four cruises is so good and I have never had trouble with them
Pyromancer is usually played with a bit of protection or unless you are confident your opponent does not have the turn two removal if you're on the play, or if you have other threats and want to just draw out removal.
The common opinion on pike from what i heard is that its a win more card. swords are better when you are behind and need to catch up, while pike only lets you win faster if you're already ahead, that is you have already cast a lot of spells.
Wind zendikon allows them to effectively bounce your land with any creature removal, which is disastrous for your tempo.
I think that the key difference between our deck and the U/R version is that the U/R version is a lot more explosive, fast and reliable. Grixis sacrifices reliability and explosiveness for more mid game potential and raw power. As a tempo based deck our late game is often bad relative to the meta as we severely lack inevitability.
Is cryptic command really the right direction for this deck? Will it be better to keep your spells cheap and efficient so dark confidant does not burn you too much and also more importantly so we don't have the tendency to drag into late game? I think burn is a decent move here since it lets us wrap up the game more quickly.
On another note, has anyone tried a 17 creature build? If so how well does delver work? I like the miser's lavamancer but I am really reluctant to cut the fourth pyromancer since it is so important to the deck
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Island
2 Mountain
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Dark Confidant
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Faithless Looting
1 Terminate
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Dispel
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
I went down to 18 lands since i dont have fetches. hence the four probes are necessary to dig for lands and also i have the faithless looting to act as a pseudo sorcery brainstorm to either dig or to replace dead draws. so far i havent had much problems with 18 lands. the fact that the deck only has 17 two drops 1 three drop and 24 one drops helps.
Dispel is in the maindeck since spell snare is situational and to be honest rather irrelevant. Dispel is cheap, has targets in every matchup, and does a much better job at protecting your threats from path, bolt helix or disfigure.
im thinking about go for the throat or dimir charm again in the maindeck. it feels good to have a removal spell that dodges spellskite. unfortunately gftt is bad against affinity and charm is bad against zoo and affinity.
Spite of Mogis deals damage to target creature equal to the number of instant and sorcery cards in your graveyard. Scry 1.
I didn't see any thread for this card yet, so i decided to create one. This card seems very good for UR delver lists in modern. previously the deck struggled against tarmogoyfs and scoozes and used to run sideboard flame slashes. This seems almost strictly better than flame slash most of the time and could be the answer to tarmogoyf in UR delver lists. It's still rather weak to scooze though. any thoughts?
This is the list I plan on running. Any suggestions?
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Pain Seer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
3 Inquisition of Koilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Terminate
The Pain Seers really should be dark confidants and I definitely need fetches in my mana base but those are just for budget reasons. What I'm thinking about now is the counterspell ratio. Also is creeping tar pit worth it? Especially since you are using up a 4 mana on your turn just to get that three damage.