G Genesis Wave
Just for massive advantage. Birthing Pod
Just because it's an insane card. Birds of Paradise
Not because of the ramp, but because I don't own a monogreen deck
Hey everybody!
I got into Vintage earlier this year and started off with MUD. I found it pretty boring and searched for more interaction. I played Bomberman for a while, but then I got interested in CS with its Goblin Welders.
I have dedicated myself to get the best out of this deck again after the release of Dack Fayden, hoping it could somewhat "substitute" Thirst for Knowledge.
I guess the list is pretty self-explanatory. Full jewelry for a maximum welder-potential, welderable robots and of course the beloved Mindslaver. Gifts Ungiven and Intuition get the welder-targets where they're beloning to and Dack Fayden obviously is our discard outlet and even gets some welderable artifacts for us.
I haven't found a maindeck slot for Lightning Bolts but at the moment I feel like this isn't really necessary, since you have your Duplicant to remove preboard threats.
The sideboard is mainly against MUD of course. Pyroblast as a better Red Elemental Blast for if we achieve to get Dack's Emblem, Flusterstorm and Trinisphere against Storm and Gush decks. And then the Crypts for dredge, which is rarely played in our meta. Wurmcoil Engine as an alternate robot which comboes well with Goblin Welder and is bonkers against MUD and buys time against Storm.
So I've been testing this list and working on it quite a bit, and wanted to know what you guys think about it, and if I forgot something important or if I overestimate certain cards. So far it gets its job done.
I'm trying to include Vault/Key somehow, as an alternative wincon. I don't know if it's needed or if it takes the Slaver feeling away, but it wins games, so I'm keeping those two in mind.
I too thought about Fact or Fiction but it seems quite underwhelming, since you can't rely on getting your Mindslaver or other welder-targets into your graveyard.
Hmm... Between my Riku and my Ghostcouncil deck I'd say I prefer my Orzhov deck.
It doesn't have a name, we just refer to it as "the Orzhov deck", since it's the only one in our playgroup.
It uses the general as a sac outlet if you need one and play like a reanimator, abusing all the etbs and ltbs, grinding out the opponent and eventually kill him, leaving him without a way to safe himself, as the recursion is sooo strong, boardwipes usually set me only one turn behind.
It's clearly a reanimator deck.
I like it because, first of all, the Orzhov syndicate is my favorite guild, and it has a strong resilience. I like it, how there are still unknown engines in the deck and how it interacts with the opposing deck, usually with Puppeteer Clique for surprising board states. Have you ever locked someone out with his own Mistbind Clique? Good thing Puppeteer Clique is a Faerie.
And while it was some broken blowout potential, the games usually end in very interesting attrition wars.
Best Buried Alive package: Solemn Simulacrum Hell's Caretaker Karmic Guide. Every turn a free Rampant Growth plus a draw is a train ticker to value town. In the late game I can play completely without a hand, and usually abuse the synergies between the cards.
I thought instants and sorceries were like trap cards from yugioh. So i would play them face up and activate them rounds later.
Also, I thought that you had to attack creature by creature instead of one attack.
Yeah, I came from yugioh.
It's a good card. But i never felt the need to run it in any of my decks besides Glissa (recuring is just too good).
Artifact mana is just better and faster. Obviously it's more vulnerable but I don't run more than 6-7 stones per deck, so it doesn't hurt that much. But it stil helps against Armageddon.
I might play him where I can get more out of it like in Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient or Glissa, but six mana for two lands is too expensive for me. Better recur Solemn.
You might want to put Mana Drain into a manaheavy deck. I run a Crosis deck which runs some spells like Mind Twist and Worst Fears.
I don't know about your Bolas deck but don't play it just to press some mana stones to the field. Get a use of the mana of which you can get card advantage. (It's nice to counter a cmc8 spell, but putting some signets on the field isn't quite impressive...)
If you can't, you might aswell play Counterspell.
Look at your decks and think about the additional mana. Which deck can abuse it the most?
You could cut the core effect and have a "1UU Fetch a CMC=1 artifact" sorcery and still have a very playable card.
I'd rather run Trinket Mage. He finds you Mana Crypt and **** like that. But yeah, I see the point. If needed you find a Tragic Slip. Mage doesn't find you the removal.
1. Kaalia's ability is a triggered ability that can be responded to. But at this moment, you still don't know which creature will enter the battlefield. Once the ability resolves, the creature hits the field and it's EtB triggers.
2. Your opponent takes his turn first. If multiple extra turn effects resolve in the same turn, take them in the reverse of the order that the effects resolved. Last resolved, first taken.
3. Clone modifies the way it enters the battlefield. It has no triggered ability. Bane of Progress, like Kaalia has a triggered ability that can be responded to (when/whenever/at the beginning...). You can save your artifacts and enchantments with both, soul and forge.
4. Yes. The sacrificing it a triggered ability that can be responded to. If you look at the reminder text, you'll see that the word when is used, standing for a triggered ability. If there was written: "If you do, sacrifice it as it enters the battlefield.", then you couldn't react to evoke.
So shalt I return! You did good work I see. Isn't quite the same I tried, but seems better in general.
I did a few testing, nothing serious as I still don't have much time. Doesn't seem too bad. Tested it mainly against Affinity.
I'm still trying to go down the tax route a little bit. I even considered Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, but I don't know if he's worth the splash.
Totally agreed. I run her in my Glissa deck too, and it has earned its slot.
And even if it means that my opponent doesn't attack. I like that card very much.
To me, the other two are too specific. Dark Realms obviously in mono black, or maybe even two-colored decks. I have seldom seen a planeswalker ultimate. You'll have a removal with her, and you can make your landflow flow, but in the end that doesn't change the board state in a way you would expect. She was good in my Toshiro EDH, where she just pumped my general to a 15/15 beater to finish one player off.
Same goes for the veil. If you can abuse her +1, alright then, but like I said above, she has to fit in the deck. And she's too expensive aswell... (To be fair, I've never palyed with her in EDH, so I might be wrong here.)
Vess is great in my opinion. She tutors for combopieces, answers and threats multiple times AND she can disrupt your opponent if there's nothing you need at the moment.
Try her! You'll love her!
But in the end it depens on what your deck is trying to acomplish. Vess is just the most flexible Liliana I think.
Fact or Fiction/Sphinx of Uthuun
Boy I love that card. Like, I really love that card!
Frost Titan
Because I think he's the
bestmost disruptive titan.G
Genesis Wave
Just for massive advantage.
Birthing Pod
Just because it's an insane card.
Birds of Paradise
Not because of the ramp, but because I don't own a monogreen deck
B
Phyrexian Arena
One of my all time favorite cards. Also, it's bonkers.
Diabolic Tutor/Diabolic Revelations/Rune-Scarred Demon
Because tutors are never bad. Even better if they bring a huge body.
W
Return to Dust/Path to Exile/Swords to Plowshares
Because exile is the safest thing on earth.
Austere Command
Because I never heard anyone complain about one-sided wraths. Well not if it didn't hit him...
R
Red Sun's Zenith
Like I said. You can never exile enough.
Blasphemous Act
Wrath for free? Count me in!
1
Solemn Simulacrum
Because he lives in value town.
Sol Ring
Because we all love this card.
Mana Vault
It leads to explosive starts.
Gilded Lotus
Well, you know you want it too.
Lands
Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge
Lands can be really nasty...
I got into Vintage earlier this year and started off with MUD. I found it pretty boring and searched for more interaction. I played Bomberman for a while, but then I got interested in CS with its Goblin Welders.
I have dedicated myself to get the best out of this deck again after the release of Dack Fayden, hoping it could somewhat "substitute" Thirst for Knowledge.
Here's the list:
1x Black Lotus
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Memory jar
1x Mindslaver
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
Creatures
1x Duplicant
4x Goblin Welder
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Snapcaster Mage
Instants
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Intuition
3x Mana Drain
2x Mental Misstep
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Vampiric Tutor
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cephalid Coliseum
1x Island
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Tolarian Academy
2x Underground Sea
3x Volcanic Island
Planeswalker
2x Dack Fayden
1x Jace, the Mindsculptor
Sorcery
1x Demonic tutor
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Ponder
1x Time Walk
1x Tinker
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Trinisphere
4x Ingot Chewer
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Flusterstorm
2x Lightning Bolt
1x Pyroblast
1x Steel Sabotage
1x Mountain
I guess the list is pretty self-explanatory. Full jewelry for a maximum welder-potential, welderable robots and of course the beloved Mindslaver.
Gifts Ungiven and Intuition get the welder-targets where they're beloning to and Dack Fayden obviously is our discard outlet and even gets some welderable artifacts for us.
I haven't found a maindeck slot for Lightning Bolts but at the moment I feel like this isn't really necessary, since you have your Duplicant to remove preboard threats.
The sideboard is mainly against MUD of course. Pyroblast as a better Red Elemental Blast for if we achieve to get Dack's Emblem, Flusterstorm and Trinisphere against Storm and Gush decks. And then the Crypts for dredge, which is rarely played in our meta. Wurmcoil Engine as an alternate robot which comboes well with Goblin Welder and is bonkers against MUD and buys time against Storm.
So I've been testing this list and working on it quite a bit, and wanted to know what you guys think about it, and if I forgot something important or if I overestimate certain cards. So far it gets its job done.
I'm trying to include Vault/Key somehow, as an alternative wincon. I don't know if it's needed or if it takes the Slaver feeling away, but it wins games, so I'm keeping those two in mind.
I too thought about Fact or Fiction but it seems quite underwhelming, since you can't rely on getting your Mindslaver or other welder-targets into your graveyard.
I hope you like it!
Greetings!
It doesn't have a name, we just refer to it as "the Orzhov deck", since it's the only one in our playgroup.
It uses the general as a sac outlet if you need one and play like a reanimator, abusing all the etbs and ltbs, grinding out the opponent and eventually kill him, leaving him without a way to safe himself, as the recursion is sooo strong, boardwipes usually set me only one turn behind.
It's clearly a reanimator deck.
I like it because, first of all, the Orzhov syndicate is my favorite guild, and it has a strong resilience. I like it, how there are still unknown engines in the deck and how it interacts with the opposing deck, usually with Puppeteer Clique for surprising board states. Have you ever locked someone out with his own Mistbind Clique? Good thing Puppeteer Clique is a Faerie.
And while it was some broken blowout potential, the games usually end in very interesting attrition wars.
Best Buried Alive package: Solemn Simulacrum Hell's Caretaker Karmic Guide. Every turn a free Rampant Growth plus a draw is a train ticker to value town. In the late game I can play completely without a hand, and usually abuse the synergies between the cards.
Usually the game ends with some random fatties, for example Rune-Scarred Demon and Archon of Justice beating down the opponents, while getting extra value every turn with Hell's Caretaker.
Also, I thought that you had to attack creature by creature instead of one attack.
Yeah, I came from yugioh.
Artifact mana is just better and faster. Obviously it's more vulnerable but I don't run more than 6-7 stones per deck, so it doesn't hurt that much. But it stil helps against Armageddon.
I might play him where I can get more out of it like in Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient or Glissa, but six mana for two lands is too expensive for me. Better recur Solemn.
You mean Mirrodin Pure
This. Swords are definitely a Mirran thing.
I created once the other five swords. But I think they were totally broken...
I don't know about your Bolas deck but don't play it just to press some mana stones to the field. Get a use of the mana of which you can get card advantage. (It's nice to counter a cmc8 spell, but putting some signets on the field isn't quite impressive...)
If you can't, you might aswell play Counterspell.
Look at your decks and think about the additional mana. Which deck can abuse it the most?
I'd rather run Trinket Mage. He finds you Mana Crypt and **** like that. But yeah, I see the point. If needed you find a Tragic Slip. Mage doesn't find you the removal.
2. Your opponent takes his turn first. If multiple extra turn effects resolve in the same turn, take them in the reverse of the order that the effects resolved. Last resolved, first taken.
3. Clone modifies the way it enters the battlefield. It has no triggered ability. Bane of Progress, like Kaalia has a triggered ability that can be responded to (when/whenever/at the beginning...). You can save your artifacts and enchantments with both, soul and forge.
4. Yes. The sacrificing it a triggered ability that can be responded to. If you look at the reminder text, you'll see that the word when is used, standing for a triggered ability. If there was written: "If you do, sacrifice it as it enters the battlefield.", then you couldn't react to evoke.
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
Artifacts
3 Boros Signet
1 Crucible of Worlds
Enchantments
1 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Suppression Field
2 Assemble the Legion
Lands
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Clifftop Retreat
2 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
Sorceries
4 Boom // Bust
3 Stone Rain
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Boil
3 Rest in Peace
3 Aura of Silence
2 Runed Halo
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Bottled Cloister
2 Storage Matrix
So shalt I return! You did good work I see. Isn't quite the same I tried, but seems better in general.
I did a few testing, nothing serious as I still don't have much time. Doesn't seem too bad. Tested it mainly against Affinity.
I'm still trying to go down the tax route a little bit. I even considered Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, but I don't know if he's worth the splash.
Some other thoughts I had were MUD-like with Mox Opal, Lodestone Golem and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. But I didn't test that. It was just some pondering.
And even if it means that my opponent doesn't attack. I like that card very much.
To me, the other two are too specific. Dark Realms obviously in mono black, or maybe even two-colored decks. I have seldom seen a planeswalker ultimate. You'll have a removal with her, and you can make your landflow flow, but in the end that doesn't change the board state in a way you would expect. She was good in my Toshiro EDH, where she just pumped my general to a 15/15 beater to finish one player off.
Same goes for the veil. If you can abuse her +1, alright then, but like I said above, she has to fit in the deck. And she's too expensive aswell... (To be fair, I've never palyed with her in EDH, so I might be wrong here.)
Vess is great in my opinion. She tutors for combopieces, answers and threats multiple times AND she can disrupt your opponent if there's nothing you need at the moment.
Try her! You'll love her!
But in the end it depens on what your deck is trying to acomplish. Vess is just the most flexible Liliana I think.