Quote from LogicXSo I just bought Halo Reach and I'm actually having a lot of fun with it. Except...
It turns out that you can't play Firefight without a hard drive. I have plenty of memory with my flash drives, but they decided I should spend more money for no reason to unlock big features of the game. So not only do I have to pay for online, I have to pay more to access online game modes.
☺☺☺☺ YOU MICROSOFT
Quote from dropkickdude
He said that AI was pushing things too far, but the "fundamentals had merit." That's a little fence-sitty to me.
My second point about his non-committal attack on Nakamura to start could be explained by his vig claim as trying to not bypass the Town, but 1-shot vig is easy to claim as Mafia and who uses a sniper rifle indoors anyways?
Quote from ced395
My new theory on Zchinque is as follows:
1. He isn't mafia (at the moment, at least). Doesn't necessarily mean he's town, though.
2. He's withholding important info. Most likely from both his flavor summary and his role mechanic claim. Traitor is a possiblity, but not the main one.
Quote from ced395
One in three is a decent chance. It's the smaller probability, but it is certainly not ignorable. In mafia terms, it is more than enough to allow for reasonable doubt. It isn't in sync with you saying that Zch might just be "convinced" earlier.
Also, consider this, RafK: when Zchinque says that Nakamura is "scum or a liability", then what is he assuming Nakamura to be when he says that she is a liability? I think that this is Az's point.
Ok, let's start with a summary of Zchinque's argument that caused all of this. How is this for a summary?
"In the event that Nakamura is town, then we should kill her anyway, because she is a liability and a potential mislynch at lylo."
Now, let's break it down:
-"In the event that Nakamura is town": Earlier, I did think that he was looking sure that Nakamura was scum from the neutral thing, and my original argument here was that, in which case, why was he exploring this possibility. I'd note that he responded (with the one-in-three thing) to say that, well, actually, he isn't sure so he can make this assumption. Not that people seem to recognise that.
-"then we should kill her anyway": A questionable statement, obviously. But let us look at the reasoning next.
-"because she is a liability": This (and, TBH, much of his reasoning) can be described as fearmongering. He says that, if we leave her alive and she is town, then she is still a danger, a weak link in the chain. That is, of course, where his alternative comes in - kill her now.
-"and a potential mislynch": As already addressed, this is bad logic. To avoid miskilling later, we miskill now. Doesn't achieve a lot, and doesn't really address the liability problem much more than make it a reality.
-"at lylo": This ties in some of the fearmongering and bad logic from earlier. A mislynch at lylo is the worst time to mislynch, so let's avoid this specific one by accelerating lylo!
Then there is the question of why he is even thinking about lylo at this stage.
Quote from AsianInvasion
While I'm not familiar with Zchinque's scum meta, his play here doesn't seem too different from how I've seen town-Zchinque act.
Quote from ced395Don't forget the flavor detail. I'm very interested in that (also, your expenses record). But don't do a Nakamura, obviously.
Quote from RafaelK
Speaking of claims though, Zchinque: so why is that, if you have the power to shoot Nakamura yourself, that you were agitating for a vig to shoot Nakamura? Why not just STFU about and then do it yourself?
Quote from Azrael
3. His emotions sync up with a scum mindset: he has no passion, and no heart, behind any of his stances. He's consistently artificial. (Emotions: check).
Quote from AzraelAnd everywhere I turn I see another sign that says he kills in the night.
Quote from Azrael
That's nice. And as irrelevant as everyone else's claim.
Why did you possibly figure that this would help "have this dealt with before then"?
And what's this "never caught while in MI6" business? *eyebrow* Were you caught afterwards?
Quote from Azrael
Usually, when a townie is really and truly PO'd at someone, they don't spell out what was done to make sure that everyone else thinks they're bad too. Usually, they talk about how terrible what was done was, and why it was so terrible. And they're usually much more direct with expressing their own displeasure.
I think you need to put the kitchen sink back where it was. Claiming to be town? Not so much of a valid scum tell, generally speaking...
I remember Nai once telling me, in the midst of skewering me as scum, that townies always leave open the possibility of new information changing their mind.
Really. Would it, or are you just trying to dissuade the cop from saving the mislynch you were supposed to be afraid of?
So you're disgusted, and you won't change your mind on killing her, but you want her to start posting more. Right.
What a useful distinction.
You start your discussion of why you want her dead with two sentences that assume she's town as a premise. *Az bloodlust*
Again, responding to a technicality instead of the substance. Her direct point is, you're chomping at the bit to get her killed. There's some meat and substance to that critique, but you take the cheap route to reply to it.
Quote from Nakamura
-Why would a true, honest Townie be so eager to lynch a Townie who just claimed? Well, because that "true, honest Townie" isn't actually a Townie, they're Scum trying to push other players to lynch that Townie. Why? It would be a very, very easy kill for the Scum to make.
Ironic, given that you seemed to think your own claim would help you out.
Someone you think is either scum or terrible says she's going to PBPA you, and your response is that it could be fun?
You sound awfully passionate about it.
Might? You sound awfully convinced by your own argument.
Not a fan of the smile, or the repetitive dodging out statements: that he's leaving the thread, going to sleep, going to be busy at work.
Quote from ZchinqueI agree we should leave the neutrals for now, but we should come back to them before the day ends. What to do with their abilities and all.
/barn AI on that the low-posters should POST MOAR!
Now I shall sleep. See you in the morning, gentlemen.
Quote from AzraelSo is a one-shot vig. So is a roleblocker. Everybody's scum, if you're looking at abilities.
Quote from AzraelZchinque.
I don’t think you’re worried about Naka’s vote derailing the town in lylo. I think you’re gunning for an easy kill, and you want to convince some gullible vigilante to be your cat’s paw and do your dirty work for you, b/c you sure as hell can’t convince the town to lynch and you don’t want that blood on your hands. I don’t see you as legitimately outraged and disgusted by Naka’s play. I don’t read you as a Tilde, you’re not the type to vote your outrage and panic at the thought of some remote, hypothetical danger in the future that Naka’s one loose cannon vote is going to doom us. I think you’re kicking her while she’s down.
I want you dead. Lynched, not vigged.
Quote from NakamuraI don't think I am Vanilla (my PM didn't state that I was).
Quote from Syrenz
Did you miss the quotation marks over there on the word "confirm"? It looked pretty clear to me that Zchinque was saying:
"How is it a good idea to fake confirm two townies?"
Quote from ced395
1540 (comment at the end) is a fun little one. All those things you mentioned earlier (horrible voting, role retconning, etc)? Do those make her scum? Apparently, you're not that sure after all,
and it's just that the weird situation that Nakamura put herself in makes her a "liability at LyLo".
LyLo is a long way away (at least, I hope it is). Townies don't think that far ahead at this stage,
and we don't lynch somebody because they might just be a liability later
(and I read liability as "an easy mislynch if not scum" here, which doesn't make much sense anyway, so you'll need to clarify).
Scum, meanwhile, do think ahead.
I know that, when I am scum, I try to position as many warm town bodies between me and the noose as possible at an early stage, and I think other people play similarly as scum. I also try to assign mislynches (and misvigs) for each day and night that I suspect the game will last.
I think that you might have Nakamura down on a plan as somebody to kill before LyLo, based on her play so far,
and this reads like a weak push to make it happen on fear (of the liability) rather than merit.
Quote from NakamuraZch is pushing my lynch. Not just a small comment here and there, but a very noticeable push for me to die (which, apparently, I need to do).