Heard of it, seen it played. Mono black is expensive though.
Those decks like to run dark confidant, lili, thought seize, phyrexian arena, inquisition, etc etc.
All are 2 figure cards that are play sets or half play sets. But damn it's good.
Monogreen is the cheapest ( although least reliable)
Looked up the prices on cathedral of war...why did it shoot up?
It was a bulk rare when we were all testing with it earlier this year....yeah don't buy cathedral.
It's not that great in Grindy matches. I usually end those by swinging with everything then pumping what is not blocked for game.
That is if I even win long Grindy matches. The chances of infect winning past turn 4 plummet to near 0 if your opponent does not misplay. Half the time the infect player is the one that misplays. I know I make play mistakes every game everyday..
Slows you down pretty good. Pendlehaven being legendary also has situations that suck wen you draw 2
There are times that I have a cathedral, nothing to spend colorless mana on and creatures on the board...and I use the cath to activate nexus and swing with that over an elf and pray I have the other 8 to get there in my hand
Not to invalidate what you say, but I find it ironic that a person who uses the handle "Horrible_At_Magic" is giving advanced advice about the stack
There is nothing advanced about what I said, it's just elementary knowledge you get from playing the deck over and over and over.
on paper everything looks good (remember livewire lash?)
and yeah, I suck at magic. Seriously.
I suck so bad I was actually happy when I unlocked the undefeated achievement on my DCI profile haha
soul sisters is too weak in legacy though. Burn sounds like its meh in modern and half decent in legacy.
thats 2 of the most played non-rotating formats for minimal investment. which is really appealing to me.
but then again it's the same strategy that red has been playing since 1993
Mono-red burn seems like it is the cheapest deck to play in all of the formats, yet retains some kind of competitive aspect.
am i wrong?
it seems as though the legacy and the modern variants are somewhat cheap and don't see too many changes year to year.
It feels like once you build it you can leave it in a dresser drawer and play magic on a competitive level once the mood strikes once built?
i feel like i want to build the modern variant, then keep the legacy cards in a side of side board so i can switch 4-8 cards and be somewhat on par with the meta with little upkeep and recurring cost
what do you guys think?
i spent 2 paragraphs and multiple posts explaining how to "play the stack" in a more efficient manner than what you're doing. And i spent the rest of the post explaining how the deck the way you play it lacks tempo/synergy
you have all these things working against you going down the rabbit hole of wrong answers and sub-optimal plays that only work in very limited manners. I made the same mistakes you're making when i first threw together infect. been there done that, thinking oh cathedral +pendel is an amazing combo, omg ancient stirrings for inkmoth! and viridian corrupter main board because artifact hate!!
then i learned to think a little differently, if a single card does not perform 3 duties, or can be used as an "out" then i cut it. and it made the deck way way more reliable. about as reliable as infect will get.
roughly a 60% win rate.
Cathedral costs you one colorless on the turn you cast it. Which really sucks in monog.
There are so many things you want to spend that mana on. I run 2 myself but if something better comes along I would ideally cut that.
With this deck I can't afford to wait until turn 8. Otherwise I'm starring at an emurakuel and 0 infect on board.
I had the same crticism with people running the ancient stirrings attempting to make their deck more combo ish digging for a nexus.
The Inkmoth isn't your optimal play idk why you want to dedicate 4-8 slots digging for it. It helps, but keep in mind that for 1 infect you're paying a colorless ( Inkmoth itself) and the land to activate it....
Don't get me wrong I have had to mull to 4 and had to rely on that nexus when my opponent had a Goyf and a Lilliana of the veil on board (sac creature but Inkmoth is land when they do it) but I had to mutagenic growth a 1/1 more times than I care to admit to pull that win.
Ideally you will want to vines on your turn. That is basically a free groundswell and a grave misplay on their part if they do try to make some targeted removal moves on the turn you can swing. To make that clear that is a yes to your question.
If your best pump spell is a cathedral, giant growth and your optimal turn 2 is digging for a manland that isn't a threat for a full 2 maybe 3 turns. And you cut 4 threats in the deck to pull this "combo" the only inevitability is the deck falling on its face. Drawing into not of these weak answers then attributing it to " oh well infect is a coin flip" is a novice mistake.
The deck already has to do without the aspects of real infect where hand disruption, counterspells and fetch lands make it more consistent ( run 8 fetch lands, 8 shock and a few basics with Inkmoth, pendlehaven and dryad arbor) so we always have the risk of hitting one of our way too many for a modern deck basics.
Mono green does not have an answer to replace blighted agent. But we can still choose a suboptimal "better" answer in that slot. I don't know what is the right answer but I know it's not blight mamba, necropede, viridian corrupter, viridian betrayer or anything along those lines.
Anyone who questions Sylvan Scrying or Giant Growth in the MonoG version either never tested it or just doesn't get it. Both cards are huge blowouts in the control MU. If I were going to pick All-Stars of the MonoG version they would be, Sylvan Scrying, Cathedral of War, and Giant Growth. These three cards do work. I've played all three versions, and the MonoG version just gets there, consistently.
I think you need to play the deck a little more before you make such a bold claim like that.
I know I started placing higher up at events here ( first second third etc) when I cut stuff like 2 cathedrals, 2 giant growth and tightened up my list a little.
I know what you're thinking, I thought the same.
" oh if he bolts me on my turn, I can cast the giant growth in response then swing 4!"
Doesn't work that way. Everybody who knows what their doing knows not to pick a fight with a Glistener elf on his turn.
Because if you attempt to path to exile that little thing, he's going to come out swinging with a kicked vines of vast wood.
The only thing an infect player wants to get rid of on their opponents turn is a apostles blessing.
The upside of having them discard an apostles blessing means that you can declare blockers or not have your damage prevented this turn with him shocking himself.
And if I was playing against infect, and I saw that he wasted 2 of his mana to fetch an Inkmoth that is not even a threat until turn 3/4 I know I pretty much have the game in the bag at that point. And he's pissing mana and running sub optimal pump, he's going to need 3 giant growth to end this rather than something effective in its spot.
Plus most modern decks can deal with taking 4 infect on turn 4, where the game ends for storm, affinity, and splinter twin. where you spent all your time and land to get a manland on turn 2. Then on turn 3 you spent 3 mana ( Inkmoth, something to power Inkmoth, and a forest) to swing for 4 infect after spending a whole turn 2 ( the scary one where infect wants to win) putting a damn land in your hand and giant growth ing it
might of old krosa gives you +4/+4 optimally
but i have used it to pump +2/+2 for the last bit to get to 10.
giant growth has no where near the utility.
2 mana is a lot in infect. if you are leaving 2 mana open on a consistent basis and are not playing threats turn 2 or figuring something out with that damn liliana of the veil then you're playing wrong.
Yes, Might of Old Krosa gives you +4/+4 in an optimal situation, but it also does nothing to protect a dude from a Lightning Bolt cast outside your main phase. Giant Growth will always give you +3/+3 for G AND it helps protect against a Bolt drawn during your opponent's turn.
Who's talking about "leaving 2 mana open on a consistent basis"?
we run 8 protection spells that pull more double duty than giant growth mainboard. the mb options also stop path and black removal. giant growth is too weak i these lists and too easy to play around.
sylvan scrying is not an infect wincon in any sense of the word. it just tutors for a land, half the time probably for a pump land like cathdral or pendel if you run it.
if you (foolishly) cut threats for slyvan scrying, then other cards are less effective.
no ichorclaw, no rancor.
-----
i feel the vast majority of these lists running wild defiance, scrying, giant growth, viridian corrupter slow the deck down and make it less reliable, also gives it less flexibility in terms of coming up with answers to scenarios not thought out by newer players to the deck.
might of old krosa gives you +4/+4 optimally
but i have used it to pump +2/+2 for the last bit to get to 10.
giant growth has no where near the utility.
2 mana is a lot in infect. if you are leaving 2 mana open on a consistent basis and are not playing threats turn 2 or figuring something out with that damn liliana of the veil then you're playing wrong.
if your only threat is a 3 drop corrupter by the time you get 2 infect on the board storm already is comboing out.
affinity has you locked, splinter twin is combing off, hell even elves are over powering your little 2/2
also, i forgot to report another first place finish 4-0, toughest matchup was affinity, but i managed to pro artifacts and swing 10 after a grindy match
is this deck at all playable without mox opal? im not asking if its competitive, im asking if it can even be played?
i play an infect deck at a local game store currently, and a lot regulars are complaining that im running a "cheat deck" and are getting pissed off at me.
im thinking affinity without the mox opals in it will slow the deck down enough so the regualrs at my LGS have some time to calm down and not want to kick my ass for winning turn 2 like i have been for the last several weeks.
and if i ever want to make this deck competitive for some reason i kow what to spend my $300 on
sylvan seems to remind me of crop rotation in the legacy list, but our version is slower, more expensive and hand rather than field.
tomm ross' trick was to tap the free forest or ABU dual land he had available to cast the Crop rotation, sac the land he just tapped for an inkmoth, untap then swing for lethal to end the game.
sylvan is atleast a full turn slower than that deal probably 2 right? also makes you mull more often? I might just try 2 but I don't know if its a better answer?
Heard of it, seen it played. Mono black is expensive though.
Those decks like to run dark confidant, lili, thought seize, phyrexian arena, inquisition, etc etc.
All are 2 figure cards that are play sets or half play sets. But damn it's good.
Monogreen is the cheapest ( although least reliable)
It was a bulk rare when we were all testing with it earlier this year....yeah don't buy cathedral.
It's not that great in Grindy matches. I usually end those by swinging with everything then pumping what is not blocked for game.
That is if I even win long Grindy matches. The chances of infect winning past turn 4 plummet to near 0 if your opponent does not misplay. Half the time the infect player is the one that misplays. I know I make play mistakes every game everyday..
There are times that I have a cathedral, nothing to spend colorless mana on and creatures on the board...and I use the cath to activate nexus and swing with that over an elf and pray I have the other 8 to get there in my hand
There is nothing advanced about what I said, it's just elementary knowledge you get from playing the deck over and over and over.
on paper everything looks good (remember livewire lash?)
and yeah, I suck at magic. Seriously.
I suck so bad I was actually happy when I unlocked the undefeated achievement on my DCI profile haha
thats 2 of the most played non-rotating formats for minimal investment. which is really appealing to me.
but then again it's the same strategy that red has been playing since 1993
am i wrong?
it seems as though the legacy and the modern variants are somewhat cheap and don't see too many changes year to year.
It feels like once you build it you can leave it in a dresser drawer and play magic on a competitive level once the mood strikes once built?
i feel like i want to build the modern variant, then keep the legacy cards in a side of side board so i can switch 4-8 cards and be somewhat on par with the meta with little upkeep and recurring cost
what do you guys think?
you have all these things working against you going down the rabbit hole of wrong answers and sub-optimal plays that only work in very limited manners. I made the same mistakes you're making when i first threw together infect. been there done that, thinking oh cathedral +pendel is an amazing combo, omg ancient stirrings for inkmoth! and viridian corrupter main board because artifact hate!!
then i learned to think a little differently, if a single card does not perform 3 duties, or can be used as an "out" then i cut it. and it made the deck way way more reliable. about as reliable as infect will get.
roughly a 60% win rate.
turn 8 emurakul is slow for tron...
There are so many things you want to spend that mana on. I run 2 myself but if something better comes along I would ideally cut that.
With this deck I can't afford to wait until turn 8. Otherwise I'm starring at an emurakuel and 0 infect on board.
I had the same crticism with people running the ancient stirrings attempting to make their deck more combo ish digging for a nexus.
The Inkmoth isn't your optimal play idk why you want to dedicate 4-8 slots digging for it. It helps, but keep in mind that for 1 infect you're paying a colorless ( Inkmoth itself) and the land to activate it....
Don't get me wrong I have had to mull to 4 and had to rely on that nexus when my opponent had a Goyf and a Lilliana of the veil on board (sac creature but Inkmoth is land when they do it) but I had to mutagenic growth a 1/1 more times than I care to admit to pull that win.
Ideally you will want to vines on your turn. That is basically a free groundswell and a grave misplay on their part if they do try to make some targeted removal moves on the turn you can swing. To make that clear that is a yes to your question.
If your best pump spell is a cathedral, giant growth and your optimal turn 2 is digging for a manland that isn't a threat for a full 2 maybe 3 turns. And you cut 4 threats in the deck to pull this "combo" the only inevitability is the deck falling on its face. Drawing into not of these weak answers then attributing it to " oh well infect is a coin flip" is a novice mistake.
The deck already has to do without the aspects of real infect where hand disruption, counterspells and fetch lands make it more consistent ( run 8 fetch lands, 8 shock and a few basics with Inkmoth, pendlehaven and dryad arbor) so we always have the risk of hitting one of our way too many for a modern deck basics.
Mono green does not have an answer to replace blighted agent. But we can still choose a suboptimal "better" answer in that slot. I don't know what is the right answer but I know it's not blight mamba, necropede, viridian corrupter, viridian betrayer or anything along those lines.
I think you need to play the deck a little more before you make such a bold claim like that.
I know I started placing higher up at events here ( first second third etc) when I cut stuff like 2 cathedrals, 2 giant growth and tightened up my list a little.
I know what you're thinking, I thought the same.
" oh if he bolts me on my turn, I can cast the giant growth in response then swing 4!"
Doesn't work that way. Everybody who knows what their doing knows not to pick a fight with a Glistener elf on his turn.
Because if you attempt to path to exile that little thing, he's going to come out swinging with a kicked vines of vast wood.
The only thing an infect player wants to get rid of on their opponents turn is a apostles blessing.
The upside of having them discard an apostles blessing means that you can declare blockers or not have your damage prevented this turn with him shocking himself.
And if I was playing against infect, and I saw that he wasted 2 of his mana to fetch an Inkmoth that is not even a threat until turn 3/4 I know I pretty much have the game in the bag at that point. And he's pissing mana and running sub optimal pump, he's going to need 3 giant growth to end this rather than something effective in its spot.
Plus most modern decks can deal with taking 4 infect on turn 4, where the game ends for storm, affinity, and splinter twin. where you spent all your time and land to get a manland on turn 2. Then on turn 3 you spent 3 mana ( Inkmoth, something to power Inkmoth, and a forest) to swing for 4 infect after spending a whole turn 2 ( the scary one where infect wants to win) putting a damn land in your hand and giant growth ing it
swing 1
"magma spray in response"
lets see here, searching through hand for appropriate response
20 turns of agony
we run 8 protection spells that pull more double duty than giant growth mainboard. the mb options also stop path and black removal. giant growth is too weak i these lists and too easy to play around.
if you (foolishly) cut threats for slyvan scrying, then other cards are less effective.
no ichorclaw, no rancor.
-----
i feel the vast majority of these lists running wild defiance, scrying, giant growth, viridian corrupter slow the deck down and make it less reliable, also gives it less flexibility in terms of coming up with answers to scenarios not thought out by newer players to the deck.
might of old krosa gives you +4/+4 optimally
but i have used it to pump +2/+2 for the last bit to get to 10.
giant growth has no where near the utility.
2 mana is a lot in infect. if you are leaving 2 mana open on a consistent basis and are not playing threats turn 2 or figuring something out with that damn liliana of the veil then you're playing wrong.
if your only threat is a 3 drop corrupter by the time you get 2 infect on the board storm already is comboing out.
affinity has you locked, splinter twin is combing off, hell even elves are over powering your little 2/2
also, i forgot to report another first place finish 4-0, toughest matchup was affinity, but i managed to pro artifacts and swing 10 after a grindy match
i play an infect deck at a local game store currently, and a lot regulars are complaining that im running a "cheat deck" and are getting pissed off at me.
im thinking affinity without the mox opals in it will slow the deck down enough so the regualrs at my LGS have some time to calm down and not want to kick my ass for winning turn 2 like i have been for the last several weeks.
and if i ever want to make this deck competitive for some reason i kow what to spend my $300 on
tomm ross' trick was to tap the free forest or ABU dual land he had available to cast the Crop rotation, sac the land he just tapped for an inkmoth, untap then swing for lethal to end the game.
sylvan is atleast a full turn slower than that deal probably 2 right? also makes you mull more often? I might just try 2 but I don't know if its a better answer?