Anyone tempted to switch out Serum Visions for Opt from Ixalan? I'll be keeping in Visions because instant speed hardly matters to me but I could see a case for other builds that include Fatal Push wanting this.
Currently, the only thing I'm doing instant speed is Whirring, and usually if I can Whir it's pretty important I do it right then.
It's terrible, that's why I don't run a play-sets of the most important cards in my deck haha. And I think it's clear that it's win-more in the main because most match-ups don't require it. I want it when my 60 has no game against what I'm sitting across from. Anyway like I said, not trying to convince anyone on whether or not to run the card, I was considering putting it in the main. I'm more concerned with nailing down a good 15 well suited for the meta as I think there's too many bad match-ups to not really focus on that.
I can see the logic behind that but I'm still firmly in the camp that the card is win-more. I'm not trying to convince anyone where to put there Sieve but if I had opened with the card on my Affinity, Humans, Storm or Elves games I would have lost.
I will be trying out Push as it's hard to rely on 1 Damnation and 2 seems to be raising the curve above where I want it.
Another thing worth input is how to prepare for hard control matches. Heavily considered putting countersquall back in but I think I'll try out Dispel for the next large event.
So I wanted to post this earlier but am just now finding the time. Over the weekend I attended a PPTQ with about 70 players. I'm bad with posting deck lists to this site but I basically ran turbo tezz (Mishra's Bauble, 3 Opal 3 Pentad 2 IoK 2 Thoughtseize 2 CoBrutality). I finished 4th going 5-1-1 into top 8. In top 8 I won the first match to 4 color humans then lost my second match to UW control finishing the night at 6-2-1.
Overall I'm very happy with my list(When i'm off work I'll try to edit it in here). The only real question was if Sieve should've had a spot. The big problem was the side. I'd really like to go in depth on it as I felt it really held me back in the event.
The sideboard is as follows:
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Ghirapur Aether Grid
1x Damnation
1x Spellskite
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Herald of Anguish
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Time Sieve
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Witchbane Orb
The Abrupt Decay/Pulse package is basically never leaving. I wouldn't of had a chance against Stony Silence without that. Flaying Tendrils and Damnation felt awful all night. I'll go into matches a bit but basically every aggro match-up I wanted to find bridge and protect it, Tendrils was rarely enough to dent a board state. I think I'll play around with switching these to Fatal Push. Most times if I sided into a push it would've bought me enough time to hide under Bridge, rather than a wrath sitting in hand.
Ghirapur + Time Sieve was definitely wrong. They seem to loosely fit the same role and I can tutor one. Aether Grid is likely coming out. It mostly was there to be able to do something against SS but I feel prepared for that now. I'll try Sieve in the main, I just hate the idea of drawing it in a fast matchup. Spellskite was useful but hard to determine if there was value in siding it in. It was my replacement for Padeem, as I think she's awesome but without a tutor can't be relied on. Ethersworn Canonist and Witchbane Orb won't come out. The Storm match was probably the easiest played due to them. Herald, Grafdiggers and Needle are all pretty standard, but Chalice was iffy. There's been enough discussion on the card where I really just need to decide if I want it there or not.
Going over the match-ups very quickly, the first game was Jeskai Control.
Ended 0-0-1
The draw here was frustrating. Because my opponent (Very nice guy) had no artifact removal game one Ensnaring Bridge got there. He didn't have enough burn in hand. Game 2 he picked up because of awesome Spell Queller Tempo. Game 3 went long and I couldn't draw a threat to save my life. I had a bridge and Orb out to where I just needed to find a kill to wrap up the game. Herald put in work but the 2nd half of thopter sword came on turn 5 and we ended there.
Next was Affinity and this was a quick 2-0. Opponent was a good player but maybe hadn't been on Affinity long. Played a Master of Etherium that got him well over bridge and game 2 didn't find Ancient Grudge.
Storm went very well with another 2-0 due to Canonist. He managed to bounce her but Whirring in a Orb got there.
Lost to Burn, not much to say here. Didn't find anything to help myself until he had 3 Eidolons out...
Running out of time but the other games were a win to Elves and Valakut. In top 8 Humans don't line up well with Bridge but UW Control is a tough one.
Anyway I'll continue to rock the deck as always but I thought I'd share that! I'm gonna be working hard to perfect my sideboard over the coming weeks.
I suppose it depends on where you wanna go with the deck. If you want to play creatures that die to Anger of the Gods, Oblivion Stone, Ratchet Bomb, etc.. and back it up with countermagic that's fine. I think it's creating extra work and also moving you farther from a gameplan to win.
I actually was thinking about switching Knightfall into this for fun. I'd take out 4 condemn and switch 2 for Path. Then 2 Spell Snare and Stalkers out as well. With the 6 slots id throw in 4 Troll Ascetics and 2 Thrun. If there was a better creature for Hexproof Indestructible I'd suggest that but I think the only card you could use is a monstrous Fleecemane Lion.
I do like the Idea of Lumbering Falls, you just can't rely on them because if you're low on life a couple of bolts kill you through man land activations.
Finally I'd take out some countermagic for something to slap on a Troll to win. Probably a Steelshapers gift+ Swords package or a good Aura. This is all what Id do and maybe not where you want to be though.
This is cool, man. Although I think your logic is a bit off w/ Damnation. If you don't want to play the Trolls B/C they die to Damnation why play an entire suite of cards that can get destroyed? Lingering Souls is a great card and I don't think you're wrong to play it, but I think for the deck to work you need a core of some creatures that live through all the sweepers in the format.
I'd switch out the Stalkers and some of the non-creature spells for trolls or something that fits the role if you're opposed to them. Also you'll need something to end the game. What that is will depend on what you choose to slot in.
Maybe I'm misreading your comment, but Academy Ruin isn't for Time Sieve, it's to keep your self from decking. To say "I have infinite turns + Thopters" is great, but you actually only have as many thopters as mana on your 40-ish turn before you run out of cards to draw.
You might be misreading because I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If you have thopter-sword-sieve out and 5 mana you can take X turns where X is the number of cards left in your deck. That will usually be enough damage to win the game, but if your opponent has infinite life it won't be. By adding an academy ruins to your list you can now take infinite turns, using the ruins to keep you from decking yourself and deal infinite dmg beating infinite life.
SO yes, the point is to not deck yourself. But the only situation where that really matters is with a time sieve combo online and an opponent at infinite life. There may be some corner case versus a mill deck but those have GQ, surgical, and the ability to just mill away your ruins/sieve so I would not consider that a very relevant situation.
I was replying to @saucemaker who has deleted his comment.
Anyway I've gotten a couple modern nights in with my turbo list and it's performing much better. I still need to hammer out the removal issue. There's been a number of games where I top deck a Inquisition and Fatal Push would've given me the game. However I'm not factoring in all the times discarding has saved me as that's a difficult thing to monitor.
The only other thing in my list I dislike is Chalice in the side.
Maybe I'm misreading your comment, but Academy Ruin isn't for Time Sieve, it's to keep your self from decking. To say "I have infinite turns + Thopters" is great, but you actually only have as many thopters as mana on your 40-ish turn before you run out of cards to draw.
So I've been on turbo for a little bit now, and need to refine my list. I apologize I'm terrible w/ deck tags. It's essentially a standard turbo list except there's 2 Spellskites and 3 Fatal Push and the land base is uncertain.
I keep seeing people playing discard like IoK over push, which I can't get behind. I'd rather top deck a push later in the game than discard, and it not interacting well w/ Bridge doesn't quite make sense. Spellskite I could definitely cut, I just haven't found anything I would prefer.
Are there any artifacts that are a little left field that have over performed for you guys? I think coming to a consensus on the most important artifacts to main would be beneficial, although it's a little meta-dependant.
It would be I interesting if someone did the math on this' effectiveness. But I think the golden rule of cards that give your opponent a choice being subpar applies. I can see crazy scenarios here but I also see scenarios where Damnation saves my life and this discards and land and drains 6 life.
After sticking to a grindy list for some time I've given in and ordered Baubles/ more Opals and will be switching into turbo. I really liked what I had going but I think the combo is to fair to try a fair shell. That and @racing089 videos showed me what I was missing!
@Bentobocx Apologies I didn't see this earlier, thanks for that I'll keep it in mind! And yeah I mostly was looking for the latter but I'll just get more reps in and learn that way.
Has anyone had to go up against the Vizier/Druid combo yet? The couple games I got in last night convinced me I need to adjust my sideboard. Not really sure what's good there?
Hey sorry if this is posted somewhere, is there an agreed upon best way to learn this decks combo? I know in the primer goldfishing is suggested, but anything past that?
Just recently built into the deck and everytime I land the combo I feel like there was a more optimal line to take.
So now that people having been running turbo lists for a bit, how do they stack up to sideboard hate? The biggest downfall to the deck has got to be the ridiculous amount of cards I hate to see out of SB. Are most people just siding in discard/protection game 2 and is it stacking up to be enough? This is my main deck and I won't come off it for a long time, but I definitely need to get better at playing through hate.
Maybe I'm just playing a lot of Grixis/Jund but the last couple tournaments have been an uphill battle for sure.
Currently, the only thing I'm doing instant speed is Whirring, and usually if I can Whir it's pretty important I do it right then.
I will be trying out Push as it's hard to rely on 1 Damnation and 2 seems to be raising the curve above where I want it.
Another thing worth input is how to prepare for hard control matches. Heavily considered putting countersquall back in but I think I'll try out Dispel for the next large event.
Overall I'm very happy with my list(When i'm off work I'll try to edit it in here). The only real question was if Sieve should've had a spot. The big problem was the side. I'd really like to go in depth on it as I felt it really held me back in the event.
The sideboard is as follows:
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Ghirapur Aether Grid
1x Damnation
1x Spellskite
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Herald of Anguish
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Time Sieve
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Witchbane Orb
The Abrupt Decay/Pulse package is basically never leaving. I wouldn't of had a chance against Stony Silence without that. Flaying Tendrils and Damnation felt awful all night. I'll go into matches a bit but basically every aggro match-up I wanted to find bridge and protect it, Tendrils was rarely enough to dent a board state. I think I'll play around with switching these to Fatal Push. Most times if I sided into a push it would've bought me enough time to hide under Bridge, rather than a wrath sitting in hand.
Ghirapur + Time Sieve was definitely wrong. They seem to loosely fit the same role and I can tutor one. Aether Grid is likely coming out. It mostly was there to be able to do something against SS but I feel prepared for that now. I'll try Sieve in the main, I just hate the idea of drawing it in a fast matchup. Spellskite was useful but hard to determine if there was value in siding it in. It was my replacement for Padeem, as I think she's awesome but without a tutor can't be relied on. Ethersworn Canonist and Witchbane Orb won't come out. The Storm match was probably the easiest played due to them. Herald, Grafdiggers and Needle are all pretty standard, but Chalice was iffy. There's been enough discussion on the card where I really just need to decide if I want it there or not.
Going over the match-ups very quickly, the first game was Jeskai Control.
Ended 0-0-1
The draw here was frustrating. Because my opponent (Very nice guy) had no artifact removal game one Ensnaring Bridge got there. He didn't have enough burn in hand. Game 2 he picked up because of awesome Spell Queller Tempo. Game 3 went long and I couldn't draw a threat to save my life. I had a bridge and Orb out to where I just needed to find a kill to wrap up the game. Herald put in work but the 2nd half of thopter sword came on turn 5 and we ended there.
Next was Affinity and this was a quick 2-0. Opponent was a good player but maybe hadn't been on Affinity long. Played a Master of Etherium that got him well over bridge and game 2 didn't find Ancient Grudge.
Storm went very well with another 2-0 due to Canonist. He managed to bounce her but Whirring in a Orb got there.
Lost to Burn, not much to say here. Didn't find anything to help myself until he had 3 Eidolons out...
Running out of time but the other games were a win to Elves and Valakut. In top 8 Humans don't line up well with Bridge but UW Control is a tough one.
Anyway I'll continue to rock the deck as always but I thought I'd share that! I'm gonna be working hard to perfect my sideboard over the coming weeks.
I actually was thinking about switching Knightfall into this for fun. I'd take out 4 condemn and switch 2 for Path. Then 2 Spell Snare and Stalkers out as well. With the 6 slots id throw in 4 Troll Ascetics and 2 Thrun. If there was a better creature for Hexproof Indestructible I'd suggest that but I think the only card you could use is a monstrous Fleecemane Lion.
I do like the Idea of Lumbering Falls, you just can't rely on them because if you're low on life a couple of bolts kill you through man land activations.
Finally I'd take out some countermagic for something to slap on a Troll to win. Probably a Steelshapers gift+ Swords package or a good Aura. This is all what Id do and maybe not where you want to be though.
I'd switch out the Stalkers and some of the non-creature spells for trolls or something that fits the role if you're opposed to them. Also you'll need something to end the game. What that is will depend on what you choose to slot in.
I was replying to @saucemaker who has deleted his comment.
Anyway I've gotten a couple modern nights in with my turbo list and it's performing much better. I still need to hammer out the removal issue. There's been a number of games where I top deck a Inquisition and Fatal Push would've given me the game. However I'm not factoring in all the times discarding has saved me as that's a difficult thing to monitor.
The only other thing in my list I dislike is Chalice in the side.
I keep seeing people playing discard like IoK over push, which I can't get behind. I'd rather top deck a push later in the game than discard, and it not interacting well w/ Bridge doesn't quite make sense. Spellskite I could definitely cut, I just haven't found anything I would prefer.
Are there any artifacts that are a little left field that have over performed for you guys? I think coming to a consensus on the most important artifacts to main would be beneficial, although it's a little meta-dependant.
After sticking to a grindy list for some time I've given in and ordered Baubles/ more Opals and will be switching into turbo. I really liked what I had going but I think the combo is to fair to try a fair shell. That and @racing089 videos showed me what I was missing!
Has anyone had to go up against the Vizier/Druid combo yet? The couple games I got in last night convinced me I need to adjust my sideboard. Not really sure what's good there?
Just recently built into the deck and everytime I land the combo I feel like there was a more optimal line to take.
Thanks!!
Maybe I'm just playing a lot of Grixis/Jund but the last couple tournaments have been an uphill battle for sure.