As someone else mentioned Brave the Elements is another option that is more "unpredictable". I'd also like to point out Hallow as a "surprise" forge-tender effect. I played a couple in my SB when I played tokens and I liked it a lot.
If you were to take out the Overssers, what would you put in place of them?
I think I'm agreeing with the 2/2 split of blast/thoughtcast as well as 3/2 split of campion/master. Seems like the right way to go, but I haven't had much chance to play it yet.
Yes, you are right that Ravager and Plating are not synergistic in that they work opposite of each other. That's just a diversification of your threats though. If I don't draw ravager but a plating then that's the path that game is going down. If I draw ravager and not a plating then that's how I'm going to try and win. If you have both, then you beat down with plating and when they try and kill your threat, you can sac it to get value out of it. (Instead of it just dying). The thing with Ravager is that he provides so many options. Protection from removal, making use of chump blockers, going all-in etc.
If you were getting blown out too many times, then I would look at when you were doing it and reevaluate if that was the right line of play. I've made the mistake of NOT going all in which would have won me the game, fearing that my opponent had removal. It can go both ways.
Of course, the LEDs would help immensely, I just can't justify that purchase right now (I know it won't be getting any better either lol)
I notice that the list you suggested doesn't have a flame-kin zealot or dragonlord, is that style going for the "one-shot" kill, whereas this list is more consistent/able to go longer? Also, as a poster previous to me was asking about city of brass vs mana confluence - any reason for one over the other?
Thanks for the help, I may lurk around here some more and hopefully you're able to get control of the primer to update it!
Yea, see that's what I'm leaning towards now, sometimes you just have to do it. Make them have it. I think the problem is, is that a higher odds of winning play more often then not? As the previous commentor mentioned, against combo decks, the longer the game goes the worse it can get. So do your odds of winning go down on the subsequent turns?...I think it probably does. Argh, I still don't know if I did the right move or not lol
I've been thinking about getting into legacy and as I did some more research, dredge looks pretty fun I like that it's a synergistic deck. I've read through most of the primer, and watched some videos on how it's played. It seems like the primer is a little out of date? Is there a sort of "stock list" that I could look at building into? Personally, I'd rather not get LEDs...
I'm going to throw out a scenario and I'd like to see how you guys would have played it out. This happened to me last night:
I'm playing against a company deck - pretty sure it's abzan. It's turn 4 for me I believe and he just tapped out his 3 lands and he has I think a kitchen finks, a birds of paradise, and a viscera seer (don't remember 100% on this one, I just remember there being 3 creatures). They're all tapped except the birds. On board I have an Etched champion, arcbound ravager, signal pest, memnite, and a couple of other artifacts (drum, citadel, had a blinkmoth that I could animate). In my hand I have another etched champion.
Doing the math, I realize if I play the etched champion, attack with pest and the champion on the battlefield, I can sac all my artifacts and put the counters on the attacking champion after no blocks are declared (due to protection). All of the artifacts, plus the battle cry and its initial P/T is enough to kill my opponent. I counted and recounted at least 3 times. I had enough, but then I looked and saw the birds untapped. Does he have a path? I know my opponent, but I don't know how many paths he has, or if he even has them in the main! If I do this, I could get blown out and I lose. If I don't I should be able to kill him next turn with the two etched champions and pest (and blinkmoth) attacking.
So the question is, what do you do? What is the BEST option? Do you take the potentially higher risk and go for it? Or will he be able to combo off soon?
I ended up not going for it. I determined the risk was too high. I attacked with the pest and champion, hitting him for 3. Next turn he played a spellskite essentially shutting off my arcbound now. I was able to attack him for 8, but he gained some life and then comboed off the next turn
I'm still not 100% sure. Turns out, he didn't have any path to exile in his main deck so I would have won that game on the spot. I thought about it during the game and determined the risk was too high. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 so in that case against that specific opponent I could have done it. But do you do it against someone else playing that deck? The more I think about it, the more I want to say "yes, go for it", but I may be results oriented at this point.
@Frossty: If you use Torpor Orb in your SB it can be good against Titan. Spell Pierce to protect from artifact hate + Summer bloom/hivemind and discard to take out their combo pieces is the good way to go.
Thanks! I'll side in Torpor Orb as well next time.
So I'm thinking 2 Pierce, 2 Thoughtseize and 1 Orb.
Question about Amulet Bloom. I don't face it often but have seen it once or twice. For someone who doesn't have Blood Moons, what is the general sideboarding strategy for them? Bring in Thoughtseize? Last time I played them I brought in 2 Spell Pierce and 2 Thoughtseize I think. The pierce saved my life in game 3 when he tried to play the enchantment that can be sac'd to destroy an artifact.
A few people on here swear by it and personally I don't like it. Every time I saw it I'd rather be playing something else and would put off playing it because there were better things to be doing. I also wasn't too impressed with it in Karsten's testing. I didn't play match after match with it, but from my own experience I didn't like it as it was too slow.
However, I am not completely against the idea that it could fit in robots. I do not think though, that it's a $20 card. I sold the 2 that I had and will get them again if necessary when they're no longer in standard. There's no way it stays that high.
I posted this the other day but I think it got buried. How do you beat Grixis Twin? I have two MB spellskite and 4 MB galvanic blast yet I still can't do anything against them.
This provides a redundant threat, one that avoids board wipes which we know mess with tokens' gameplan all too much. Not drawing spells late game? Attack with this. Just got a board wipe and can't attack with your newly created tokens? Attack with this. Once your in top deck mode and they seem to have all the removal in the world? This or your tokens are going to get through somehow. Not to mention this dodges bolt when you have Honor of the Pure, and that's pretty sweet.
If you can't play this, I think you need to reevaluate your mana base.
Also, Turn 1 Godless Shrine, or fetch for shrine and you never have the problem of having an Isolated Chapel come into play tapped for the rest of the game. I've since moved on from BW tokens, but in the year+ that I did play it, I never had the problem of chapel coming into play tapped.
If you were to take out the Overssers, what would you put in place of them?
I think I'm agreeing with the 2/2 split of blast/thoughtcast as well as 3/2 split of campion/master. Seems like the right way to go, but I haven't had much chance to play it yet.
But as the previous commentor mentioned, Infect, mirror, things like delver, I've found it solid against hate bears
If you were getting blown out too many times, then I would look at when you were doing it and reevaluate if that was the right line of play. I've made the mistake of NOT going all in which would have won me the game, fearing that my opponent had removal. It can go both ways.
Of course, the LEDs would help immensely, I just can't justify that purchase right now (I know it won't be getting any better either lol)
I notice that the list you suggested doesn't have a flame-kin zealot or dragonlord, is that style going for the "one-shot" kill, whereas this list is more consistent/able to go longer? Also, as a poster previous to me was asking about city of brass vs mana confluence - any reason for one over the other?
Thanks for the help, I may lurk around here some more
I've been thinking about getting into legacy and as I did some more research, dredge looks pretty fun
I'm playing against a company deck - pretty sure it's abzan. It's turn 4 for me I believe and he just tapped out his 3 lands and he has I think a kitchen finks, a birds of paradise, and a viscera seer (don't remember 100% on this one, I just remember there being 3 creatures). They're all tapped except the birds. On board I have an Etched champion, arcbound ravager, signal pest, memnite, and a couple of other artifacts (drum, citadel, had a blinkmoth that I could animate). In my hand I have another etched champion.
Doing the math, I realize if I play the etched champion, attack with pest and the champion on the battlefield, I can sac all my artifacts and put the counters on the attacking champion after no blocks are declared (due to protection). All of the artifacts, plus the battle cry and its initial P/T is enough to kill my opponent. I counted and recounted at least 3 times. I had enough, but then I looked and saw the birds untapped. Does he have a path? I know my opponent, but I don't know how many paths he has, or if he even has them in the main! If I do this, I could get blown out and I lose. If I don't I should be able to kill him next turn with the two etched champions and pest (and blinkmoth) attacking.
So the question is, what do you do? What is the BEST option? Do you take the potentially higher risk and go for it? Or will he be able to combo off soon?
Thanks! I'll side in Torpor Orb as well next time.
So I'm thinking 2 Pierce, 2 Thoughtseize and 1 Orb.
However, I am not completely against the idea that it could fit in robots. I do not think though, that it's a $20 card. I sold the 2 that I had and will get them again if necessary when they're no longer in standard. There's no way it stays that high.
Thoughts on how to sideboard?
Deck here
If you can't play this, I think you need to reevaluate your mana base.
Also, Turn 1 Godless Shrine, or fetch for shrine and you never have the problem of having an Isolated Chapel come into play tapped for the rest of the game. I've since moved on from BW tokens, but in the year+ that I did play it, I never had the problem of chapel coming into play tapped.