I'm a "mason" but my mason partner isn't in the main thread, I can communicate with Cythere in a quick topic. He is mod confirmed town for me, and vice versa, for what that's worth. he is also allowed to replace me in the game, in traditional replacement fashion, if I were to request replacement, but he cannot replace anyone else.
@DCIII: I'll get to you later, i think I left some questions unanswered before the day ended, when I got unexpectedly busy (coworker was in a car accident, She's ok, but I got her shifts, which created double shifts of about 13 hours each for a few days) but I need to spend my time finishing my catchup in my other game today.
that being said, I'm a big fan of this policy that we call Lynch all Liars.
Vote Fulcrum. that's all for now. nothing about the way you claimed, and the way this is being handled is in a protown manor. I'll have more later. probably like hyper late tonight.
looking at the last page after having posted, it looks like this game is close to lynch. I'll be fully caught up tomorrow, I have the day off, and fully intend to be up to date.
page 6 go. feel like there wasn't much of anything posted to respond to on this page, but I'm falling asleap again, and lets stop posting before I get incoherent tonight.
No, actually, it would make the scum job much easier. Scum don't want to tuck saint points away, they want to put them on people who are going to get lynched. The worst case for scum is that they place all their saint points on people who never get lynched. If we mark some people as town explicitly, the scum know not to bother putting saint points on them.
the problem that would then arise though, for the popes, is that they would need to find themselves on the wagons too, killing them selfs if the strat is played properly. though I think at this point though, Tan's plan can be summed up as "if the town figures out who's scum, and who isn't, town wins" which is basically like saying that this is still a game of mafia. and the fact that this is being missed is just odd all around.
this post on the whole puts JAR, pretty well into my town pool. alot of solid questions, and imput into the game. I however don't see how void intrepted any of that as defending Jey. I'm torn on void atm, which is weird, I'm not getting a null read on him, but an alternating read on him, where some post seem just so town, yet other posts scream scum. not sure I'll ever be able to figure out where that line of thinking leads me, which is probally the best for my mental health.
@Shockwave: have you done anything useful this game? I just got this post and realized I can't think of anything of note that you've done all game.
JeY:okay? that's it? nothing more to say at all?
Looks to me like they're just picking easy cases, I wouldn't clear them just yet, but the way they're saying things doesn't rub me the wrong way really but I'm not getting any intuitive reads toward either side of the scale. My playing is horrid so of course I'm going to be attacked, not going to say they're scum because they're after me.
I'm not sure what meaning you were trying to convey here either, not sure if this was directed regarding me, or herself (JeY is female, yes? I think I've picked that one up)
iRebel is town. solid post, well placed vote on kami at this point. overall just a good post.
I follow the logic in this post by Tan, but I really don't like the veiled attack on karn contained within. I can't see a world where karn would make any of the case posts he did, on the same team as kami. the level of busing that was mentioned just blows my mind. and the way you phrase this in the vote for karn just feels really off to me.
k, so where I left off: pages 4/5, still typing more up, but just posting now, in case I fall asleap at my computer.
Void's post here feels way off base, the defence of karn is completely unnecessary, and awkward. that and if ignoring questions is someone's meta, we should lynch them untill it isn't part of their meta. that, and the fact that I just skimmed back, and Wheat never unvoted. the way that post was made, just doesn't seem genuine, espicially the part with the misrep.
I do follow this line of thinking as well. but I kinda wrote it off as null, since I've seen more than enough town and scum do things similar to this. while the action taken isn't an proper one, I don't believe it's a tell under generic circumstances.
Karn's posts of content around here actually really do feel like they come from a town mindset. all of them contain sound logic on paper, I still disagree with the way he went about the opener, but I think that's a bit more of a theory disagreement than town/scum anything. I don't think however the connections are as strong as karn believes them to be. I think alot of this case is indirectly karn justifying his first vote again. you're on Kamikazi for calling you out, and indirectly defending tan, but It really was a direct difference, and called you out for being a hypocrite all the same. I really do however think at this point your intentions are good, just your methods are suspect in this situation. that and at the end, that Iso link seems flimsier than parchment paper.
this however is a really good point by kami. the fact that karn later ignores it, as he seems to just do, really just makes me want to lynch him now, almost on policy. but policy lynches are bad, ok? but seriously, why does karn ignore questions like this, it actually was a pretty stong question, does he want to avoid answering anything he doesn't have an answer that's good for?
I'm really not likeing one line in this post by Jey " If my voice means anything on the matter I think I'd prefer that one cannot vote for themselves in this setup. The town gets an advantage of this works out the way JAR put it, but that just seems silly to me." was what was said. while I agree that the game should be balanced, or at least one side shouldn't get an unfair advantage over the other, the way this was worded just seems really off to me. doesn't feel like it came from a townie thinking the game was unbalanced, but from a pope, complaining that the game shouldn't be imbalanced.
@Void: you say here that that karn is unreadable day one, but strong as town lategame, how do you propose that we then discern town karn from scum karn? by your logic, is a scum karn not nearly as terrifying as the town karn is strong? at what point can we start reading him, and does he encounter the Azrael problem, where if he's alive at endgame, you should just policy lynch him? I don't disagree that you shouldn't be voting wheat right now, but is karn really that good that you'll unvote on his word alone?
this post is not a town post. if you had worded your dislike of the self vote strat like that in your last post, it wouldn't have been scummy. you went out of your way to talk about how it was the town that was getting the unfair end. the meaning was fair, but the wording screamed "I'M A POPE" that and the second part, if you've found scum, you lynch them. end of story. you don't let scum live, the day ends. it's the way mafia works.
Karn ignores other questions to respond here. seems off, but apparently that's "just karn"
town post while I'm not sold on the theory, it feels as though a legitimate attempt to figure the game out.
Kami's response to it however comes from a mindset that doesn't make sense at all. he implies that we won't be reevaluating our reads. and if a scum slips past everyone's reads and makes it to endgame, isn't that when you say gg? like, this is how every game is played. when scum win it's because they made it to endgame appearing as town. even if we didn;t do this we still lose in this fashion. so, the only good thing that can come of your post is to discourage people out of townreads in general, which is not a town mindset imo, regardless of the accuracy of tan's plan.
so, I have read the whole game now, but I don't have the time to type up everything I've wanted to do, working 13 hour shifts the last couple days have been "fun". should have had content yesterday or thursday, but didn't. tommorrow after work, I swear, sorry.
@DCIII: I've been reading you town ever since the first case you prepared on LnGrrrR. your posts most of the game have felt as though you're genuinely trying to figure things out, have been filled with content, and overall town mindset. my read on you has only changed recently. Dkings has just given me a town vibe for most of the game, his reads have been justified, and consistently feel like their coming from a town mindset. he's been one of the more inactive players in the game, but every post of content he makes legitimately feels as though he's trying to figure out the game.
but hey, at this point, you're just trying to make the thread suit your needs. Dkings pointed out his justification for his read on me in his most recent post of content. but hey, he says outright he's more than willing to vote fulcrum in that last post. it's not scummy to have 2 scum reads, and then vote one. and you know what, that post by koal was awful, and did read as a lust for info. but hey, finding that scummy, is scummy now. interesting.
Dkings, if you vote fulcrum, and kpaca shows up and replaces his vote, she's at -2 as well.
Fulcrum, what part of my claim being psudeo vanilla did you miss? I said I'd have everything that needs to be in the thread, in the thread, by the deadline. how people think you're town is beside me.
my claim won't do anything to save me, but it will do things to influence the game. If I'm going to die I'll make sure whatever I need to be is in the thread, is in the thread, but for the time, assume I'm psudeo vanilla. I do not have a night action. I am Guest 02.
as I have said, though, I don't mind dying, as long as fulcrum goes tommorrow. Apparently SNL was a village idiot, so, when fulcrum dies, other places to look:
LnGrrrR: his play at the start of the day was suspect. the initial reaction to the first case on him still spring out in my mind.
DCIII/Generic: one of them is probally scum, though I'm actually hedging to DCIII at this point, there's some of it that's off, but a lot of it's just gut at this point. I know I'm town, and now he's trying to back me into a corner, dispite having a town read on me most of the game.
Kosa's town, Dkings is town, Hooker's a distraction, Kpaca's gone MIA, but if he's town, he is probably the best asset you have, for those that haven't played with him, he's right 95% of the time, but there won't be cases or walls from him, just smart posting, also of note, anyone that claims to be able to read him is lying. as long as the double voter maintains his double vote, he's town, but if he ever doesn't have it, don't just preclear him on that basis, CCCCCC was still pretty awful while he was still in this game, and from my perspective, it feels like he's ignoreing my defence (he admitted when I responded to him, that he just wasn't going to respond of the following:
I've found that engaging in a counter-counter-point with someone who's purely on the defensive is rarely productive. Scum or not, you're not going to agree with a case that says you are.
I'm not going to agree with the case on me because it's bull crap, this whole mess is bull crap, it all started from fulcrum's "case" based entirely on my mannerisms. you pretty much came to the same conclusion. you don't get to openly ignore discussion simply because you think it's not going to be productive. I asked you multiple questions responding to your initial points against me, and you just threw them to the wind, because you could. that and the way your using your double vote feels anti town to me, this close to a deadline, from my perspective. your strong arming out my claim, and basically signing my death in a game where the actual player base is split. you're using your double vote to be a majority, when a majority doesn't want me dead. it's not like there's only one wagon at the moment, there's two, and you've decided that you're better than half the player base, and can basically control my death atm.
KoolKoal's the only one I haven't commented on. he was active lurky most of the day and when he was under pressure for it, he reacted strange. alot of what he's done has been null for me. him trying to push out both mine and fulcrum's claims, was interesting. and suspect as well, he's another place to look.
but yah, if I'm today's lynch, fulcrum is tommorrow's. that is all.
I'll give this game more thought in the morning, I just finished reading the rest of the pages that I haven't commented on, but my brain isn't in a coherent state atm.
@ DCIII, at day three, the game state would have been dramatically different, and on the azrael theory, if Generic was lynched on day 3, and you were then still alive on day 4, at the time I would have seen you as a major contender for scum since you were still in the game. so, yah, if we actually make it to a day 3/4 with you alive at the time, you would have been up there for being scum, if the potential for the 1 v 1 was still there.
Popcorn to DCIII
that being said, I'm a big fan of this policy that we call Lynch all Liars.
Vote Fulcrum. that's all for now. nothing about the way you claimed, and the way this is being handled is in a protown manor. I'll have more later. probably like hyper late tonight.
this post on the whole puts JAR, pretty well into my town pool. alot of solid questions, and imput into the game. I however don't see how void intrepted any of that as defending Jey. I'm torn on void atm, which is weird, I'm not getting a null read on him, but an alternating read on him, where some post seem just so town, yet other posts scream scum. not sure I'll ever be able to figure out where that line of thinking leads me, which is probally the best for my mental health.
@Shockwave: have you done anything useful this game? I just got this post and realized I can't think of anything of note that you've done all game.
JeY: okay? that's it? nothing more to say at all? I'm not sure what meaning you were trying to convey here either, not sure if this was directed regarding me, or herself (JeY is female, yes? I think I've picked that one up)
iRebel is town. solid post, well placed vote on kami at this point. overall just a good post.
I follow the logic in this post by Tan, but I really don't like the veiled attack on karn contained within. I can't see a world where karn would make any of the case posts he did, on the same team as kami. the level of busing that was mentioned just blows my mind. and the way you phrase this in the vote for karn just feels really off to me.
g'night!
Void's post here feels way off base, the defence of karn is completely unnecessary, and awkward. that and if ignoring questions is someone's meta, we should lynch them untill it isn't part of their meta. that, and the fact that I just skimmed back, and Wheat never unvoted. the way that post was made, just doesn't seem genuine, espicially the part with the misrep.
I do follow this line of thinking as well. but I kinda wrote it off as null, since I've seen more than enough town and scum do things similar to this. while the action taken isn't an proper one, I don't believe it's a tell under generic circumstances.
Karn's posts of content around here actually really do feel like they come from a town mindset. all of them contain sound logic on paper, I still disagree with the way he went about the opener, but I think that's a bit more of a theory disagreement than town/scum anything. I don't think however the connections are as strong as karn believes them to be. I think alot of this case is indirectly karn justifying his first vote again. you're on Kamikazi for calling you out, and indirectly defending tan, but It really was a direct difference, and called you out for being a hypocrite all the same. I really do however think at this point your intentions are good, just your methods are suspect in this situation. that and at the end, that Iso link seems flimsier than parchment paper.
this however is a really good point by kami. the fact that karn later ignores it, as he seems to just do, really just makes me want to lynch him now, almost on policy. but policy lynches are bad, ok? but seriously, why does karn ignore questions like this, it actually was a pretty stong question, does he want to avoid answering anything he doesn't have an answer that's good for?
I'm really not likeing one line in this post by Jey " If my voice means anything on the matter I think I'd prefer that one cannot vote for themselves in this setup. The town gets an advantage of this works out the way JAR put it, but that just seems silly to me." was what was said. while I agree that the game should be balanced, or at least one side shouldn't get an unfair advantage over the other, the way this was worded just seems really off to me. doesn't feel like it came from a townie thinking the game was unbalanced, but from a pope, complaining that the game shouldn't be imbalanced.
@Void: you say here that that karn is unreadable day one, but strong as town lategame, how do you propose that we then discern town karn from scum karn? by your logic, is a scum karn not nearly as terrifying as the town karn is strong? at what point can we start reading him, and does he encounter the Azrael problem, where if he's alive at endgame, you should just policy lynch him? I don't disagree that you shouldn't be voting wheat right now, but is karn really that good that you'll unvote on his word alone?
this post is not a town post. if you had worded your dislike of the self vote strat like that in your last post, it wouldn't have been scummy. you went out of your way to talk about how it was the town that was getting the unfair end. the meaning was fair, but the wording screamed "I'M A POPE" that and the second part, if you've found scum, you lynch them. end of story. you don't let scum live, the day ends. it's the way mafia works.
Karn ignores other questions to respond here. seems off, but apparently that's "just karn"
town post while I'm not sold on the theory, it feels as though a legitimate attempt to figure the game out.
Kami's response to it however comes from a mindset that doesn't make sense at all. he implies that we won't be reevaluating our reads. and if a scum slips past everyone's reads and makes it to endgame, isn't that when you say gg? like, this is how every game is played. when scum win it's because they made it to endgame appearing as town. even if we didn;t do this we still lose in this fashion. so, the only good thing that can come of your post is to discourage people out of townreads in general, which is not a town mindset imo, regardless of the accuracy of tan's plan.
I accept this reasoning on the unvote mix up
Karn's town, even if I don't agree with every bit of his reasoning, or his playstyle.
Void: barn'd JeY's scum. the response does nothing for me at this point
@Xyre: Sorry
but hey, at this point, you're just trying to make the thread suit your needs. Dkings pointed out his justification for his read on me in his most recent post of content. but hey, he says outright he's more than willing to vote fulcrum in that last post. it's not scummy to have 2 scum reads, and then vote one. and you know what, that post by koal was awful, and did read as a lust for info. but hey, finding that scummy, is scummy now. interesting.
Fulcrum, what part of my claim being psudeo vanilla did you miss? I said I'd have everything that needs to be in the thread, in the thread, by the deadline. how people think you're town is beside me.
as I have said, though, I don't mind dying, as long as fulcrum goes tommorrow. Apparently SNL was a village idiot, so, when fulcrum dies, other places to look:
LnGrrrR: his play at the start of the day was suspect. the initial reaction to the first case on him still spring out in my mind.
DCIII/Generic: one of them is probally scum, though I'm actually hedging to DCIII at this point, there's some of it that's off, but a lot of it's just gut at this point. I know I'm town, and now he's trying to back me into a corner, dispite having a town read on me most of the game.
Kosa's town, Dkings is town, Hooker's a distraction, Kpaca's gone MIA, but if he's town, he is probably the best asset you have, for those that haven't played with him, he's right 95% of the time, but there won't be cases or walls from him, just smart posting, also of note, anyone that claims to be able to read him is lying. as long as the double voter maintains his double vote, he's town, but if he ever doesn't have it, don't just preclear him on that basis, CCCCCC was still pretty awful while he was still in this game, and from my perspective, it feels like he's ignoreing my defence (he admitted when I responded to him, that he just wasn't going to respond of the following: I'm not going to agree with the case on me because it's bull crap, this whole mess is bull crap, it all started from fulcrum's "case" based entirely on my mannerisms. you pretty much came to the same conclusion. you don't get to openly ignore discussion simply because you think it's not going to be productive. I asked you multiple questions responding to your initial points against me, and you just threw them to the wind, because you could. that and the way your using your double vote feels anti town to me, this close to a deadline, from my perspective. your strong arming out my claim, and basically signing my death in a game where the actual player base is split. you're using your double vote to be a majority, when a majority doesn't want me dead. it's not like there's only one wagon at the moment, there's two, and you've decided that you're better than half the player base, and can basically control my death atm.
KoolKoal's the only one I haven't commented on. he was active lurky most of the day and when he was under pressure for it, he reacted strange. alot of what he's done has been null for me. him trying to push out both mine and fulcrum's claims, was interesting. and suspect as well, he's another place to look.
but yah, if I'm today's lynch, fulcrum is tommorrow's. that is all.
that said, Vote Fulcrum. you're still scum.