I discovered otherworldly gaze and that was so far the perfect fit for the deck, being able - on top of card selection - to increase consistencies for miracles, filling the grave for snapcaster and lurrus and being a good enabler to flip thing in the ice.
I have been working on this deck since a few weeks (and tried numerous options).
The deck is a combination of mass board wipes (with terminus and TitI) in a uw shell (with decent removal options and counterspells). Previous players have tried this but with cards which I consider as weaker (eg omen of the sea).
I think you should specify your question. Better against what ?
That being said, they have different angles. Angels will stabilise the board on their own if protected/unanswered. blessed alliance has more narrow / niche uses such as bogles or infect, where it shines.
Basic ideas was to up card advantage (tbh scouts are often à one for one trade, card vs removal) while still getting these lands into play (contrary to lotus Bloom being more all in and really susceptible to be hit by artifact hate post sideboard). Not sure I am right to try this but it is so far quite consistent. What do you experimented people think ?
@daviusminimus you know me too well. Of course, I could not help mixing the two versions together and then understand why it was not good
Thank you for your extensive answer. It really shed a light on the reasons beyond these 2 versions.
After trying the two, I think I prefer the scout one as well for competitive plays, even though the lotus hive mind one is funnier (or leads to funny situations :p).
One more question on the scout version from the SCG: would not one mana cantrips such as 4th adventurous impulse and 1 serum vision be better than the two explore in the deck ? It's true that the scouts are fragile but you still have amulet and asuza to accelerate ? Also, @daviusminimus: is your current version different from that one ?
Thanks for the reply. Sorry to ask if it is obvious but why is the bloom version better suited for hive mind ?
It seems to me that the only difference between the two versions is the replacement of the scouts by lotus and less cantrips in the bloom version. Am I wrong ?
I have recently started to play this deck. It's a blast, love it.
One Small question: I would like to try 2 hive mind and 2 pact of negation. What do you cut to make room for these (eg starting from the list that made 1st at the scg)?
I've played a lot of UB Control in the past and I don't really think what it was missing was a catch-all threat like Assassin's Trophy. The biggest thing it was really missing was White "gotcha" cards like Stony Silence and RIP. It was amazing in fair match ups (and often won control mirrors) but the unfair match ups were really hard. I'm not sure Green (Assassin's Trophy) adds all that much to the deck to be honest. If you're going Sultai you should definitely play it but I would be more interested if there was a better reason to play Green. Being able to kill anything is cool but in reality UB has tools for everything besides artifacts and enchantments which aren't that prevalent in modern (at least not in my experience).
I think Pulse of Murasa is really cool but being a 3 drop can be tough. Green Control decks in the past have played Explore to help ramp up to Cryptic Command a Turn early which is exactly what Hoogland's build wants to do. I've seen some interesting BUG Mystical Teachings decks that I'm interested in trying but are probably too slow for the current meta. Some sort of BUGw Gifts deck could also work to try to leverage Life from the Loam.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that UB is already very strong and Assassin's Trophy doesn't seem to help much from my perspective as a UB player. BUG needs a good reason to be in Green and that's tough without trending midrange toward Goyf and Trackers.
I am not sure I would go that route. Teachings is fun (I have played it also) but being a 4 drop then a 6 drop is really killing it in the current format.
Blue has always missed decent removal, so this is what you get by playing sultai; with the chance that you can win games by screwing your opponent out of mana / a certain colour of mana.
Finally some activity here! I almost thought I was the only one hyped about BUg Control for a while there!
I need to playtest one of these Obstructionist lists asap, because I think they're hard to evaluate just based on a list. They look too slow imho, but without playing it I think it's just too hard to give any decent feedback. What are your experiences on different matchups so far?
To be honest, I do not play competitive magic that much these days; just playing with friends. The deck is what you can expect from a typical control deck, with unfair decks - in particular dredge - being difficult game 1.
I saw Hoogland playing a sultai control list the other day. It was an interesting take and gave me ideas for a new take on this deck. Here it is - I will test it on Tuesday:
Did he get that much mileage out of Pulse of Murasa that it was worth leaving in after the rest of his changes?
Have not looked at the stream but pulse and lili are grinders in a deck with fields and trophy/snap. It is also very good against aggro.
All in all, I like this take and I believe there is some more research to be done on control with à back up mana denial plan (Uw used to do this with fields and seas- here you have field/pulse, trophy snap and nimble for fetches).
Current version of the deck:
// 4 Artifact
4 Brainstone
// 5 Creature
3 Thing in the Ice
2 Snapcaster Mage
// 3 Enchantment
3 Dress Down
// 18 Instant
2 Otherworldly Gaze
2 Path to Exile
2 Fateful Absence
4 Opt
2 Archmage's Charm
4 Counterspell
2 Force of Negation
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Hall of Storm Giants
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mystic Gate
4 Field of Ruin
1 Raugrin Triome
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
4 Island
// 7 Sorcery
4 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Soul-Guide Lantern
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Torpor Orb
1 Lurrus of the Dream-Den
2 Seal of Cleansing
3 Dovin's Veto
2 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Sunset Revelry
I have been working on this deck since a few weeks (and tried numerous options).
The deck is a combination of mass board wipes (with terminus and TitI) in a uw shell (with decent removal options and counterspells). Previous players have tried this but with cards which I consider as weaker (eg omen of the sea).
Let me know what you think.
Best,
Artvi
// 4 Artifact
4 Brainstone
// 3 Creature
3 Thing in the Ice
// 3 Enchantment
3 Dress Down
// 19 Instant
4 Opt
4 Counterspell
3 Archmage's Charm
2 Force of Negation
2 Path to Exile
2 Fateful Absence
2 Memory Deluge
// 24 Land
4 Field of Ruin
1 Castle Vantress
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
4 Island
4 Mystic Gate
1 Hall of Storm Giants
1 Castle Ardenvale
1 Raugrin Triome
4 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
2 Prismatic Ending
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Soul-Guide Lantern
1 Lurrus of the Dream-Den
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Dovin's Veto
2 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Fateful Absence
2 Sunset Revelry
1 Entreat the Angels
Link to deckstats: https://deckstats.net/decks/20993/2256950-brainstoned-uw-lurrus-control-
That being said, they have different angles. Angels will stabilise the board on their own if protected/unanswered. blessed alliance has more narrow / niche uses such as bogles or infect, where it shines.
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boros Garrison
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Forest
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Gruul Turf
1 Khalni Garden
1 Radiant Fountain
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
3 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
4 Adventurous Impulse
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Explore
4 Summoner's Pact
creatures (12)
4 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4 Primeval Titan
1 Walking Ballista
3 Wayward Swordtooth
2 Abrade
2 Firespout
1 Hornet Queen
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Pact of Negation
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Spell Pierce
Basic ideas was to up card advantage (tbh scouts are often à one for one trade, card vs removal) while still getting these lands into play (contrary to lotus Bloom being more all in and really susceptible to be hit by artifact hate post sideboard). Not sure I am right to try this but it is so far quite consistent. What do you experimented people think ?
Thank you for your extensive answer. It really shed a light on the reasons beyond these 2 versions.
After trying the two, I think I prefer the scout one as well for competitive plays, even though the lotus hive mind one is funnier (or leads to funny situations :p).
One more question on the scout version from the SCG: would not one mana cantrips such as 4th adventurous impulse and 1 serum vision be better than the two explore in the deck ? It's true that the scouts are fragile but you still have amulet and asuza to accelerate ? Also, @daviusminimus: is your current version different from that one ?
Many thanks and have a nice weekend
It seems to me that the only difference between the two versions is the replacement of the scouts by lotus and less cantrips in the bloom version. Am I wrong ?
I have recently started to play this deck. It's a blast, love it.
One Small question: I would like to try 2 hive mind and 2 pact of negation. What do you cut to make room for these (eg starting from the list that made 1st at the scg)?
ps : why are lot of control lists on 2 snare currently ?
I have not jammed esper charms for a while and really feel like it now
I am not sure I would go that route. Teachings is fun (I have played it also) but being a 4 drop then a 6 drop is really killing it in the current format.
Blue has always missed decent removal, so this is what you get by playing sultai; with the chance that you can win games by screwing your opponent out of mana / a certain colour of mana.
To be honest, I do not play competitive magic that much these days; just playing with friends. The deck is what you can expect from a typical control deck, with unfair decks - in particular dredge - being difficult game 1.
// 10 Creature
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Walking Ballista
1 Torrential Gearhulk
// 19 Instant
3 Fatal Push
4 Assassin's Trophy
3 Cryptic Command
2 Pulse of Murasa
1 Consume the Meek
1 Suffer the Past
2 Logic Knot
3 Opt
// 24 Land
4 Field of Ruin
4 Polluted Delta
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
// 5 Sorcery
3 Serum Visions
2 Damnation
2 Damping Sphere
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Shriekmaw
1 Dispel
2 Countersquall
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
// 10 Creature
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Walking Ballista
1 Torrential Gearhulk
// 19 Instant
3 Fatal Push
4 Assassin's Trophy
3 Cryptic Command
2 Pulse of Murasa
1 Consume the Meek
1 Suffer the Past
2 Logic Knot
3 Opt
// 24 Land
4 Field of Ruin
4 Polluted Delta
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
// 5 Sorcery
3 Serum Visions
2 Damnation
2 Damping Sphere
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Shriekmaw
1 Dispel
2 Countersquall
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
4 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Tombstalker
1 Dream Eater
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Pulse of Murasa
4 Assassin's Trophy
3 Fatal Push
2 Logic Knot
4 Opt
2 Cryptic Command
1 Echoing Truth
3 Field of Ruin
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
2 Hinterland Harbor
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Damnation
2 Collective Brutality
1 Carnage Tyrant
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Consume the Meek
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
1 Dispel
2 Countersquall
1 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
2 Unmoored Ego
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
Have not looked at the stream but pulse and lili are grinders in a deck with fields and trophy/snap. It is also very good against aggro.
All in all, I like this take and I believe there is some more research to be done on control with à back up mana denial plan (Uw used to do this with fields and seas- here you have field/pulse, trophy snap and nimble for fetches).