1.1994 so umm 12 years
2. started off as little as 100 but when i got to college i was buying 2-3 boxes of each set not counting drafts, ptqs and singles so around 600-700 annualy mabey even as high as 800
3. 1-2 dnd books a year so liek 60
The thing is, the discussion travels - largely - in circles. People are currently plying in either two directions. One, trying to outwit the law, and two, complaining that Wizards Shouldn't Have Done This.
Well, without any moral imperative, I can't see how being a visible thief somehow exempts one from still being, well, you know, a thief. As a writer, if someone stole my book and broadcast it over the 'net before I could release it, I'd be very angry. Consider the O-Gaming leagues that are basically stealing Magic wholesale from its provider - and thanks to RE's spoilers, can do so ahead of the rest of the online community, and, in some cases, ahead of the offline community.
It's phenomenally disrespectful to wizards to presume that your idea of 'nice' somehow takes precedent over their value of 'right'. I will lay you odds that Wizards has had to lay employees off over this kind of thing. Wizards are fed up with the leaks and have every right to stop it. You think this is the first thing they've done? They've made multiple public announcements, many of which sum up to 'Don't leak, since we consider it illegal.'
But being, I dunno 'nice' means that Daron can defy that? Shucks! Remind me next time I shiv an infant to make sure I'm a nice guy to a group, so they can support me in this time where I clearly need it, being a blameless lamb before the slaughter. Because, you know, I'm nice.
I bear no ill will to Daron. I really do. But the community surrounding him sickens me in its incestuously sycophantic fawning. The sort of people who will ignore the rights of those people who They Don't Like. It's the same kind of Not-Thinking-Things-Through unprincipled attitude that led to women not being allowed to vote, or gays not being allowed to marry.
I see a lot of Bush-bashing on MTGS...
And here in this thread, I see the same kind of intolerance. Except instead of being homosexual or female, the people you're picking on happen to be employed. Well, I can see why we'd want to hate on them so much.
If this gets deleted, I won't be too surprised - but it will just be yet another sign of the problem. Support Daron, do. I really do think that the guy's life is going to be rough and he will need his friends. But he does not deserve to be above the law because you're his friend.
i think you are reading far to much into the posts and quite possably just being theatrical to be heard. did you even think that post all the way through before you wrote it? i mean hell you jump on the community when you are sitting in the same place the spoiers are, and from what i can tell by your name and post number, you have been here a bit Talen Lee vbmenu_register("postmenu_861714", true);
Experienced Mage
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 137
so what made you come here in may 2005? was it the spoilers? most likely. so you sit there and call us disrespectful to a company that just showed us how little it really cares about its coustomers?
seriusly would not 1 letter of cease and dissist of been sufficant? i think so. and wizards laying off employes is pretty much laughable to begin with. lay offs and such things do becoume public after awhile especialy ina large corporation. if anythign wizards has actuly grown in size scince hasbro came along
"It's the same kind of Not-Thinking-Things-Through unprincipled attitude that led to women not being allowed to vote, or gays not being allowed to marry."
strong words but little more then words. actuly both of those things, and i do not condone eather one of such, were well thoguht out, sadly, and based on the princables of the age. from what i can tell here most of the people on this fourm are intelligant people who are tryign to save the game we helped build. the spoilers ARE part of the history of the game. mabey they are just that history. but however it turns out RE is innocent untill proven guilty you make a huge leap stating he is. perhaps you should think out your posts before you write them.
question is how many unique hits does this site generate during spoiler season, not only that but how many hits do other sites that get the spoilers from here get during spoiler season. i think that may give us a clear view of exactly how many people come to see spoilers. in fact some of you stated that internatonal players do not read spoilers this is thrown out by the fact the french sighned pititions at the gp prerealease. as did other internation prs. i think thier are alot more out there then you give credit for. i bet almost as many peeps know RE by name as they do finkle or kai, now thats numbers. and you HAVE TO go by the 20/80 rule
20 percent of the people produce 80 percent of your income dedicated buyers most of them are pro or simi pro or pro wantabee (like me) who follow spoiler season religiusly to get the so called edge
Quote from Azerbaijan »
He shouldn't need a C&D. Anyone who is as involved in the online Magic community as RE should know that Wizards dislikes spoilers. It's practically common sense.
Do you really think it would've made a difference? Either:
RE would've ignored the letter, and gotten sued anyway, or
RE would've posted that Wizards was bullying him into stopping with a C&D request, and we'd be having this same conversation.
Granted, it makes a difference to RE, but Wizards still comes off as a corporate bully.
or option 3, he could of noted wizards asked him to stop and bowed out gracefully, sure we would be steamed but hell its understandable and i woudl not of lost any respect for my former beloved game
PatentAttorney, yeah RE proly is braking some copyright laws. and wizards proly does have a sound case. but here is the kicker.
was it smart to do?
my opinion no. Why, .....PROFIT. Wizards are actuly gonna lose profit on this venture. Honestly if they succide in this lawsuit i will stop playing this game. no more drafts, no more boxes, no more trips to PTQs. nothing. i will try to find or even help set up a help RE fund all my money that was gonna go to wizards coffers will now go to help his fine. i encourge every one else here to do the same. I am rather saddend and sickend by the corrporate giant we hacve helped to build. Wizards went from a company i had great respect for, catering to the players needs, apologising when they made a error, giving the players things they wanted EVEN lettign us desighn cards and parts of sets. but now all they gave us they threaten to take away.
WITHOUT WARNING!
this is not the WOTC that we are used to. This is a coorporation who looks at us as doller signs and numbers. not names like john, bill, cody ect ect, like they used to. bottom line has becoume the important thing not the players. sure good nen still work there. in the desighn department. but now we are also hearing from another department the part that never played the game, never been to a PTQ, does not know the agoney of losing a draft to a bomb who never sat up till 5 am with thier playtest group trying to brake a format wide open. They know numbers not people and thier lies the mistake. i suggest the heads of hasbro look at the money men and relise this is not the normal product they are used to, were each family has 1 copy of the product. this is a product that fluxes according to what the players want, not a product that remains the same from its conception.
the players want the spoilers, sorry we do. playtest cards aside. sure that was a bit to far, simple cease and dissist letter should of been sufficiant and mabey a minor lawsuit for the source but this is a travisty. Wizards never woudl of lost that much money from 3 cards being shown unless of course they are anticipation the player backlash that may well put the company win the red which honestly i sort of hope it does, learn your lesson wizards and learn it fast, this is a counsumer drivin product.
here here, we have ways to fight this we wnat our rumors we wnat magic our way hell, i was even getting a magic the gathering tat on my shoulder i love this game so much. then they go and do this.....
NOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! don't say that thats case info!:p wb
no doubt it really does look like a 5 in fact i woudl go as far as call that a 5
mabey thats a 4 in that language but it really is a 5 (blow it up and look)
2. started off as little as 100 but when i got to college i was buying 2-3 boxes of each set not counting drafts, ptqs and singles so around 600-700 annualy mabey even as high as 800
3. 1-2 dnd books a year so liek 60
i think you are reading far to much into the posts and quite possably just being theatrical to be heard. did you even think that post all the way through before you wrote it? i mean hell you jump on the community when you are sitting in the same place the spoiers are, and from what i can tell by your name and post number, you have been here a bit
Talen Lee vbmenu_register("postmenu_861714", true);
Experienced Mage
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 137
so what made you come here in may 2005? was it the spoilers? most likely. so you sit there and call us disrespectful to a company that just showed us how little it really cares about its coustomers?
seriusly would not 1 letter of cease and dissist of been sufficant? i think so. and wizards laying off employes is pretty much laughable to begin with. lay offs and such things do becoume public after awhile especialy ina large corporation. if anythign wizards has actuly grown in size scince hasbro came along
"It's the same kind of Not-Thinking-Things-Through unprincipled attitude that led to women not being allowed to vote, or gays not being allowed to marry."
strong words but little more then words. actuly both of those things, and i do not condone eather one of such, were well thoguht out, sadly, and based on the princables of the age. from what i can tell here most of the people on this fourm are intelligant people who are tryign to save the game we helped build. the spoilers ARE part of the history of the game. mabey they are just that history. but however it turns out RE is innocent untill proven guilty you make a huge leap stating he is. perhaps you should think out your posts before you write them.
20 percent of the people produce 80 percent of your income dedicated buyers most of them are pro or simi pro or pro wantabee (like me) who follow spoiler season religiusly to get the so called edge
or option 3, he could of noted wizards asked him to stop and bowed out gracefully, sure we would be steamed but hell its understandable and i woudl not of lost any respect for my former beloved game
Posts Merged
was it smart to do?
my opinion no. Why, .....PROFIT. Wizards are actuly gonna lose profit on this venture. Honestly if they succide in this lawsuit i will stop playing this game. no more drafts, no more boxes, no more trips to PTQs. nothing. i will try to find or even help set up a help RE fund all my money that was gonna go to wizards coffers will now go to help his fine. i encourge every one else here to do the same. I am rather saddend and sickend by the corrporate giant we hacve helped to build. Wizards went from a company i had great respect for, catering to the players needs, apologising when they made a error, giving the players things they wanted EVEN lettign us desighn cards and parts of sets. but now all they gave us they threaten to take away.
WITHOUT WARNING!
this is not the WOTC that we are used to. This is a coorporation who looks at us as doller signs and numbers. not names like john, bill, cody ect ect, like they used to. bottom line has becoume the important thing not the players. sure good nen still work there. in the desighn department. but now we are also hearing from another department the part that never played the game, never been to a PTQ, does not know the agoney of losing a draft to a bomb who never sat up till 5 am with thier playtest group trying to brake a format wide open. They know numbers not people and thier lies the mistake. i suggest the heads of hasbro look at the money men and relise this is not the normal product they are used to, were each family has 1 copy of the product. this is a product that fluxes according to what the players want, not a product that remains the same from its conception.
the players want the spoilers, sorry we do. playtest cards aside. sure that was a bit to far, simple cease and dissist letter should of been sufficiant and mabey a minor lawsuit for the source but this is a travisty. Wizards never woudl of lost that much money from 3 cards being shown unless of course they are anticipation the player backlash that may well put the company win the red which honestly i sort of hope it does, learn your lesson wizards and learn it fast, this is a counsumer drivin product.