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Quote from FuriousMarsupial »Quote from Aazadan »
Two or three years later his son started showing up to the store to draft, and the store owner gave his son his dads deck (he kept it behind the counter since he's a nice guy) to return to him.
This is the greatest end to the story of any I've read here.
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Quote from Jlambe »Quote from DestroyerTimeos »
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Creature (25)
2x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2x Cliffhaven Vampire
3x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4x Drana's Emissary
4x Kalastria Healer
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4x Serene Steward
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
Planeswalker (2)
2x Sorin, Solemn VisitorLand (24)
4x Caves of Koilos
8x Plains
2x Scoured Barrens
2x Shambling Vent
8x Swamp
Sorcery (7)
2x Duress
2x March from the Tomb
2x Read the Bones
1x Ruinous PathInstant (2)
2x Grasp of DarknessSideboard (15)
3x Hallowed Moonlight
2x Infinite Obliteration
3x Languish
2x Linvala, the Preserver
2x Transgress the Mind
2x Ultimate Price
1x Utter End
Be back later to explain.
I really like the build of this deck, but with read the bones, have you thought about painful truths for card draw too?
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As everyone knows, the "usual" cube is singleton, intended to have the perfect amount of cards for those drafting it (you would have a 360 card cube for 8 players.) Even without singleton rules, the perfect card amount usually applies. At least, that's where my experience lies.
With that being said, a conspriacy cube woudl be different. At least the one I want to build.
My goal is to recreate the actual drafting experience. The fun of Conspiracy is building a really (would-be) jank deck and making it work through draft-affecting cards and conspiracies. The unpredictability of the draft is what I want to achieve here. My Ravnica unified cube is a perfectly (as perfect as it can be) balanced cube, but that's a different situation. I want every draft from this cube to feel like you just cracked packs and got random cards.
So. How would one achieve this? Here's how I thought to make it work. Keep the conspiracies separate, have 4 of each conspiracy, shuffle them, give one per pack (15 cards) to each player as part of their first/second/third round pack. Then, for the actual cube, have 2 of each rare in the set, 3 of each uncommon, and 4 of each common (similar ration... 4 of each rare, 5 of each uncommon, 6 of each common) to sort of simulate the likelihood of getting two of the same cards depending on rarity.
Then, for the actual draft, even though you might have more cards than people, you only draft enough for everyone to get 3 packs of 15, extra cards unused, to make it *feel* like a real conspiracy draft from the set.
So, what does everyone think? Please, if you have any better ideas, or feel this would just be far less fun than a tight-knit, carefully constructed and hand-picked conspiracy cube, let me know!
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This can be about bad employees, bad owners, horrible deals, a toxic community that the store hosts, etc. Anything that is the fault of the employees/owners, or could easily be prevented by the employees/owners, post it here. Please, for the sake of keeping things civil, avoid names of people and especially names of stores. While I encourage people to share their bad experiences to others to warn them about specific stores, I do not think that calling out on a forum thread is the way to go.
I'll kick us off with my story.
There are three popular MTG shops where I live. The one hosts amazing prizes for every player, such as getting a free booster pack whenever you win a round, plus even more if you go undefeated, plus random door prizes, but due to that it attracts people who are only into that, and you get a lot of immature people. The other one that I exclusively go to has not-so-great prizes for the average player (if you go undefeated you get promos, boosters, etc. plus there are some promos for random players) but because of this, and because of how awesome the owner and employees are, it attracts an amazing community who is only there for the fun of the game.
However, that last shop, ooooh no. Where do I begin, the rude employees, the lazy owner, or the dishonest marketing? Well, let's start with the shop itself. They aren't afraid to find a way to rip you off, and they make you work for it too. First of all, you can't call ahead and ask them to pull aside cards for you. Instead, you have to go in, they hand you a binder that isn't organized, and you dig through it all. The prices are average for the cards, but pretty much everything else is overpriced. If you even once stop and think maybe you are getting a good deal, it's probably not. My friend once bought a bag of dice there, "wow, 100 random dice for $25? That's good." Well, guess what, a lot of them were misprints. Most dice would have repeats of numbers and so never actually be useable for anything.
So, then there are the employees. The first time me and my friends went in, we were looking through magic cards (this store is half the drive as the other one) and the one employee comes over and starts poking fun at us about how we are playing magic and not Yu-Gi-Oh. We thought he was joking until he started saying things like, quote, "magic is gay" and "that's a bad card because that's a bad game", all while he was looking through yu-gi-oh cards behind the counter. The second time we went in, the other employee was listening to music with both earbuds the entire time, and we kept having to get their attention so they could take off the headphones to hear us, but as soon as our question ended they put it right back on.
The owner as you can imagine isn't that great either. He seemed nice at first, offering to play with us while we waited for the draft to start, but later it became obvious he was just interested in the money. He would constantly try and promote things to buy, "Oh, you use that deckbox, the Satin Tower is a lot better" ok, fair enough I thought. "using an app isn't really that good for life counting. You should buy count-downs and a dice tower." ok...? "Why did you even bother with Ultra Pro sleeves when you can just buy Dragon Shields that are way better?" Alright, now I started getting annoyed, let me buy what I damn want! Maybe it wouldn't have been as bad if it weren't that he was constantly pushy and usually favored his long-term customers no matter how in-the-wrong they were.
Anyways, there's my rant, I wanna hear yours!
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As stated earlier in the thread, he isn't good for this deck. The deck doesn't need card draw (i've never had a problem of needing cards), he costs a hefty 3BB just for some card draw.
At turn 5, I'd much rather have a cheaper murder spell, or a cheaper card draw (that also doubles as a sac trigger), than a five mana extra card per turn.
EDIT: It's important to note this deck doesn't need control. Creatures with annihilator are the biggest buzz-kill, but we have ways to deal with that already, we can simply sac our creatures for triggers from annihilator to drain life and then put them back onto the battlefield to cause more massive triggers, or we can use a simple removal. Other than that, the deck easily takes a massive beating and survives. I once had a game (with the original decklist) against an aggro deck who got me to 3 life, but I was able to take a massive swing to drain/gain life, then return all those creatures to the battlefield for more triggers. At games end, I won with over 30+ life.
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Cuts
-2 Bloodbond Vampire: This card was always a good piece to have because people would target it first. However, as of late, that's all it's been good for.
-4 Serene Steward: Maybe it's just me, but a lot of times I have played, I either didn't have white mana, or had no need to gain a +1/+1
Additions
+2 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim: Great card. Let's your sac allies to trigger, gain life, then as the game passes, we have a way to get rid of their fatties no problem.
+3 Cliffhaven Vampire:Sure, most the time it's only 1-2 additional life, but sometimes it can be lethal if you make a huge swing with all your pieces with Ondu Rising in action. Plus he can chump block lowly 2-3 power flyers that nag at you.
+1 Altar's Reap: Just for some additional card draw.
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No, but I do now.
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I actually just got a new job, so there is a strong chance I can actually take this deck to game-day this time.
I will keep you all updated. Thanks for the great ideas.
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I kind of feel this is where the point of magic steps in. If a card is too pricey, don't play it. I compare MTG to a video game in which you earn credits to buy new gear. Sure, you can decide to cheat when playing with your friends by giving everyone every piece of gear, but that's not the way the game is meant to be played.
I find that when people proxy, they do so as an alternative to finding ways to make their cards work. In my opinion, it's far more fun to see someone find a way to max out a simplistic card, such as "Geth's Verdict", rather than see them play some expensive combo that we won't care about a week later. It's part of the progression of the game. As my one friend puts it, the biggest fun in magic comes from working with what you got, and making what you got work. When you start playing the most expensive cards, it means there is less variety, because lesser decks barely stand a chance. Ultimately, I always say, if you've never gotten attached to a card that may or may not be a great card, you aren't playing magic right.
That being said, if you are proxying the cheapest modern decks (a budget is usually 60 dollars) in casual play, there is nothing at all wrong with this. 1. Your group is ok with it, 2. You are playing casual. The issues only arise when your playgroup isn't ok with it, or when you are trying to play outside of casual.
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First of all, "proxy", as used in MTG, is a loose term. The original definition of proxy is "the agency, function, or power of a person authorized to act as the deputy or substitute for another", and there stands no definition (given the dictionary I used) that uses it the way MTG uses it.
That being said, if we replace "person" with "object", then TheElGrande is wrong. Anything that subsitutes another is considered proxy. Yet, arguing definitions here is not the point of the original post, and it serves no purpose in determining if proxies are fair or not.
Claiming that buying a magic card means that all proxies are fair is the equivalent of saying that you have a right to proxy The Game of Life because you bought Monopoly, or that you have the right to proxy an add-on for a board game because you bought the original.
That leads me to my most important point. The difference between what is a right (an entitlement) versus what is right (morally correct, or simply acceptable). For example, you do NOT have a right to pirate an add-on for a video game you bought, given you never bought the add-on, but that DOESN'T make it wrong. It is very circumstantial. An example of when it might be acceptable is when you actually plan to buy the add-on later down the road, or when you had bought the add-on for a different system, even though it is still illegal (check the EULA.)
Now, let's move back to magic and plug all this in. There are circumstantial times when it is right and wrong to proxy.
Is it ok to proxy when...
You plan to buy the cards? Yes. You own the cards in one deck? Yes. You want to proxy the meta? Yes. You want to proxy a cube? Yes. Your friends are ok with it? Yes.
You never plan to buy the cards? No. You don't own the cards and they aren't hard to obtain? No. You want to proxy the best of the best? No. Your friends aren't ok with it? No.
It is understandable that people who didn't bother reading the original post would assume the topic is proxying in general, that is ok. What is not understandable is when people decide to sway the topic towards arguing definitions and trying to argue that it is OK to do in all circumstances because it is legal, or because it somehow doesn't fit the definition of a proxy, or that the mechanics are "indistinguishable", and they do not at all take into account the aspect of it being right or wrong as according to playing against friends.
Playing a deck that your friends think are overpowered because it is legal (though breaks the rules of magic) is the equivalent of saying that it is ok to start with extra money in monopoly because it's legal. Sure, everyone could just take the extra money and it would be fair, but that greatly affects the game in a negative way that wasn't intended. When you start proxying the best of the best, all ingenuity is gone. I have seen people beat a 500 dollar deck (proxied) because they were able to make the best of their budget cards. Whether the proxy deck does good or bad doesn't affect that it ruins the fun, in certain circumstances. If it's too good and they play it right, it's unfair for those who don't wish to proxy. If it's too good, but they can't play it right at all, it ruins the fun for those who know their deck well, as the game becomes too easy.
Alright, rant is over. Everyone who came here to argue definitions or legal standpoints can pack up their bags and go home. The rest can continue their mature opinion sharing.