I apologize for not posting on my own child forum recently. I have been incredibly busy.
Unfortunately, I was not able to play this deck at all in a competitive environment. Not only due to an increased schedule load, but increased financial load.
That being said, I am more than joyed that people enjoyed the deck. When I first made this primer, I was hoping people would say it was decent at least. I didn't have much experience in crafting decks at the time (especially in standard). Even though some heavy elements of the deck came from many amazing people here, it still brings me joy to see people enjoying the deck that I was able to start.
A huge thanks to everyone who contributed to, critiqued, and especially played this deck or an inspired variant. It's a shame I won't be doing much standard at this point, but perhaps I shall return when my financial situation stabilizes.
Not sure if this has been posted before, but if so, it must have been awhile, and each case is unique.
Me and my friends are big on commander. We do play a bit of modern, but on our weekly meets we always play a couple matches of commander. If it isn't cube night, it may as well be commander night.
I hold my deck close to me. I took multiple deck lists, proxied them up, modified and refined my commander deck before purchasing the cards (save for a few incredibly expensive 30-50 dollar cards I plan to hold off on.) It's good enough to be competitive easily, but stands it's own without it's primary win-con, thus making it fun to play against weaker decks.
My other friend began making a proxy of a deck he wanted to build, and it was not bad. He is weary on some cards, but ultimately has some cards that he knows are a must keep. In time, other friends began making proxies too.
It was fun because I could play my deck competitively and have a challenging, fun game. The problem is, it's been over a few months now, and no one has attempted to purchase any of the cards, but they only play EDH with their proxy deck.
Is this a money problem? Yes and no. They have the free money, but spend it elsewhere. They have said that they "will buy the cards eventually" but not even the cheapest of cards was purchased.
I suppose it bothers me the most because I took the time to craft my deck and actually purchase it, as well as get a lot of the cards signed. I grew onto my deck from the league matches to the casual matches. When we go to the store, we usually can get people to agree to play against their proxies, but I can never play in a league with them. It turned magic into a trading card game into a pre-packaged board game.
I suppose the ultimate question is where everyone else stands. Do you believe that people who only play proxies are sucking some fun out of magic, or that it's perfectly acceptable?
Ultimately, while I don't like it, I don't push their buttons about it. If they enjoy the game in the manor of proxy decks, then who am I to stop that? However, I feel like there is a fine line eventually.
Great. Thanks for the information. Just one last question.
I remember seeing a blog post on the wizard website speaking of this topic. It showed what was considered an acceptable card, but the card covered up almost all of the rules text, but the border was left alone as well as the name and mana cost.
Why is it that the rules text is allowed to be so covered? This seems to me like it allows cheating, for a player could say it does something that it does not. Furthermore, why is it that borders aren't allowed to be modified? This seems like a weird call, as some people enjoy borderless cards, and I can't see how it might equate to cheating.
Regarding lands, what would you view as acceptable? It says that it cannot make the card art look unrecognizable, but that seems hard not to do with *any* land.
I have gotten a lot of mixed feedback regarding this one when I google searched it.
What is the extent in which one can use or make a basic land? I've been told that it's up to the judge, but it has to be recognizable as a basic land. To me, this seems a bit odd. Why isn't one allowed to use a custom basic land? That is to say, simply print what looks nice on a regular piece of paper and slide it over a regular basic land?
Furthermore, how recognizable does the land have to be? I have seen some people go completely crazy and make basic lands with Transformers on them. The only recognizable feature it seemed was the word "swamp". Would something like this be legal?
Let's say I put out Darkest Hour, and also another card (forgot the name) that does the same thing, same text, but it makes them all white instead.
Would all creatures be both white and black, or would the most recent card put out be the one they are?
I do hope they are both white and black, because it means Teysa, Orzhov Scion could be given an easy infinite exile creature combo (sacrifice three white and black creatures to exile a creature, and then you'd proceed to get 3 white and black creatures).
I think it would be an interesting mechanic if they started having cards that said "When this creature is sacrificed, do this." It would essentially create a deck that is all about sacrificing your own creatures to do things, and getting those creatures out fast. Since the card says "when this creature is sacrificed" it would work with fleshbag marauder.
Let's say a card called "Example Card" said "sacrifice this creature: Gain 50 life" and I played a card, such as Fleshbag Marauder, that said something like "each player sacrifices a creature." If I sacrifice "Example Card" in reference to Fleshbag Marauder, do I still can the 50 life?
Does Gideon, Ally of Zendikar's +1 ability trigger "Ally entering the battlefield" effects? That is, would +1ing Gideon trigger Kalastria Healer's life drain effect?
Edit: My apologies. Answered this on my own through some simple research. (He does not trigger Rally effects, as he does not "enter" the battlefield considering he was already on the battlefield.)
However, I do have another question regarding Gideon's +1: He gains Indesructible and has all damage prevented during the turn. Is the only way to remove him an instant that would either exile him or cause the owner to sacrifice him?
This is correct. Until end of turn, you could only exile him, or sacrifice him. He essentially becomes a 5/5 that can't die, and the point of preventing combat damage is because that damage would be dealt to Gideon in the form of loyalty counters.
I appreciate all the helpful responses here, and it leads me to another question.
After we talked it out with him, he came out and said he believes he just isn't a fan of the deck, because it is too easily controlled, and that if he had a response to more things, he would enjoy it better.
However, this raises my question. How do I get him to invest into his deck? He has a really bad habit, and it is this: If I have 20 dollars to spend, I'll put 10 towards the current modern deck I am working on, and 10 towards my commander. What he does is spends all 20 on his modern deck.
Is there *anything* I can do to get him to spend his money wiser? He wants to play with us when we play EDH, but he (and others in the group) simply don't sink in *any* money into their decks. Even when my friends and I make direct card suggestions that are 50 cents or less, they don't get cards. They are convinced that they only want to use cards they get in boosters or drafts, but then proceed to not even use those because they are too garbage.
He plays a pre-built commander that he made slight modifications to, but we play with an achievement system. This is what got me most angry. He claimed that me and my other friend had these crazy OP decks, but the achievement system prevented us from pulling ANY infinite combos or A-Hole moves. Furthermore, after he left, and we played again, someone who was using Prosh's commander, unmodified and store-bought, won the game fair and square.
I guess we will just have to stop playing EDH with him. He isn't like this in other formats. He still holds to the claim that he doesn't enjoy EDH because our decks are vastly better than his. While that is true, I find it troubling that he can argue this when he was the one that actually screwed over the win for the other people by scooping. Worst of all, during the one game, when I was close to having a Sorin on the field (I was playing without tutors as per the achievements, and was just trying to draw my way through my library then), and my other friend was finding ways to take an extra turn after everyone else's turn (achievements don't prevent this) he decides to focus all his murder cards and destroy artifact/enchantment cards on someone using Nekusar in an unmodified commander, just because he didn't like losing 2 life on his turn.
A few months ago, my friends decided to buy pre-made commander decks. Prior to this, me and my two other friends had been playing the format for nearly a year.
Fast-foward a few games, this individual becomes habitual in complaining that in commander, he doesn't like that he can get so easily controlled, but he said this after someone murdered his commander once. This individual has a habit of getting upset with infinite combos. Infinite combos are not always the most fun, I agree, but the situations didn't nearly warrant complain. The game had dragged on for ages, the person with the infinite combos made a lot of mistakes that could have progressed the game faster using some beaters. One person exiled the card that would have granted him a lot of his infinite combos, and that same player controlled him aggressively.
In the end of that game, the controlling player died at the hands of the individual who complained about it all along. This player then scooped because he said he would "surely lose to infinite combos." The two other players then started hammering the third guy with infinite combos. They would have won... if the individual didn't scoop.
The cycle always goes "Play commander - Moan about being controlled - Moan about infinite combos - Scoop when you feel like you have no chance - ignore people who tell you to stop playing commander - repeat." This person has gone as far as to actually say "I just don't like that whenever I have a win condition on board, someone stops me." To which we pointed out that it would make no sense to let someone have a massive win condition, and that he's actually just complaining because we don't *let* him win intentionally.
It's come to be annoying because this person will complain to himself about everything out there. Our playgroup finds infinite combos fun, he doesn't, and that's fair, but he had multiple times tried to win with commander damage, and then complained that taking control of his commander and attacking him with it was "broken and not fun." He doesn't like *anything*. Then he frequently scoops and basically prevents other players from having any chance of winning.
We want him to stop, but he won't quit the format, and we have no clue why. We tried talking to him about it multiple times and he just changes his reasoning a lot, and acknowledges it. He is still a friend, and we know he isn't trying to be a real Geth's Verdict, so we can't just not let him play if he wants to. We play commander a lot, and it wouldn't be fair that he can't come down because we will be playing commander.
So, what can we say to get him to either enjoy the format or leave the format?
*If both bandits are dead, killing the king does not grant them victory. The game continues as normal. This is to ensure the assassin doesn't have to kill the king last, which can be tricky and cause him a loss. When both bandits are dead, and the king is dead, the knight becomes "defender of the Realm" (just a title, no perks) and can still win the game for himself if he becomes the last one standing.
*When the usurper kills the king, he does not become the king until he ends his turn.
*if the king dies, the usurper must kill the defender of the Realm to become king.
Optional Rules:
*You may only tap a permanent with the same name 5 times on your turn, and only twice on each opponents turn. (This is to protect against infinite combos).
Ex. Charlie uses blasting station with some other cards to allow him to continuously tap and untap blasting station. He may only tap it 5 times on his turn, and 2 times on each opponents turn, *Even if it was copied or returned to his hand, as long as it has the same name, only 5 times and 2 times (the exception being something that copies the card but retains its own card name)
*when the king is killed by the assassin, the knight becomes defender of the Realm and has 40 life if his life was less than 40.
Unfortunately, I was not able to play this deck at all in a competitive environment. Not only due to an increased schedule load, but increased financial load.
That being said, I am more than joyed that people enjoyed the deck. When I first made this primer, I was hoping people would say it was decent at least. I didn't have much experience in crafting decks at the time (especially in standard). Even though some heavy elements of the deck came from many amazing people here, it still brings me joy to see people enjoying the deck that I was able to start.
A huge thanks to everyone who contributed to, critiqued, and especially played this deck or an inspired variant. It's a shame I won't be doing much standard at this point, but perhaps I shall return when my financial situation stabilizes.
Me and my friends are big on commander. We do play a bit of modern, but on our weekly meets we always play a couple matches of commander. If it isn't cube night, it may as well be commander night.
I hold my deck close to me. I took multiple deck lists, proxied them up, modified and refined my commander deck before purchasing the cards (save for a few incredibly expensive 30-50 dollar cards I plan to hold off on.) It's good enough to be competitive easily, but stands it's own without it's primary win-con, thus making it fun to play against weaker decks.
My other friend began making a proxy of a deck he wanted to build, and it was not bad. He is weary on some cards, but ultimately has some cards that he knows are a must keep. In time, other friends began making proxies too.
It was fun because I could play my deck competitively and have a challenging, fun game. The problem is, it's been over a few months now, and no one has attempted to purchase any of the cards, but they only play EDH with their proxy deck.
Is this a money problem? Yes and no. They have the free money, but spend it elsewhere. They have said that they "will buy the cards eventually" but not even the cheapest of cards was purchased.
I suppose it bothers me the most because I took the time to craft my deck and actually purchase it, as well as get a lot of the cards signed. I grew onto my deck from the league matches to the casual matches. When we go to the store, we usually can get people to agree to play against their proxies, but I can never play in a league with them. It turned magic into a trading card game into a pre-packaged board game.
I suppose the ultimate question is where everyone else stands. Do you believe that people who only play proxies are sucking some fun out of magic, or that it's perfectly acceptable?
Ultimately, while I don't like it, I don't push their buttons about it. If they enjoy the game in the manor of proxy decks, then who am I to stop that? However, I feel like there is a fine line eventually.
Do you know why the borders are not to be tampered with?
I remember seeing a blog post on the wizard website speaking of this topic. It showed what was considered an acceptable card, but the card covered up almost all of the rules text, but the border was left alone as well as the name and mana cost.
Why is it that the rules text is allowed to be so covered? This seems to me like it allows cheating, for a player could say it does something that it does not. Furthermore, why is it that borders aren't allowed to be modified? This seems like a weird call, as some people enjoy borderless cards, and I can't see how it might equate to cheating.
Regarding lands, what would you view as acceptable? It says that it cannot make the card art look unrecognizable, but that seems hard not to do with *any* land.
What is the extent in which one can use or make a basic land? I've been told that it's up to the judge, but it has to be recognizable as a basic land. To me, this seems a bit odd. Why isn't one allowed to use a custom basic land? That is to say, simply print what looks nice on a regular piece of paper and slide it over a regular basic land?
Furthermore, how recognizable does the land have to be? I have seen some people go completely crazy and make basic lands with Transformers on them. The only recognizable feature it seemed was the word "swamp". Would something like this be legal?
While on the topic, does anyone know any good card or cards that would either...
1. Make all creatures black in addition to their other colors
Or
2. Simply make them black and white?
Would all creatures be both white and black, or would the most recent card put out be the one they are?
I do hope they are both white and black, because it means Teysa, Orzhov Scion could be given an easy infinite exile creature combo (sacrifice three white and black creatures to exile a creature, and then you'd proceed to get 3 white and black creatures).
I think it would be an interesting mechanic if they started having cards that said "When this creature is sacrificed, do this." It would essentially create a deck that is all about sacrificing your own creatures to do things, and getting those creatures out fast. Since the card says "when this creature is sacrificed" it would work with fleshbag marauder.
This is correct. Until end of turn, you could only exile him, or sacrifice him. He essentially becomes a 5/5 that can't die, and the point of preventing combat damage is because that damage would be dealt to Gideon in the form of loyalty counters.
After we talked it out with him, he came out and said he believes he just isn't a fan of the deck, because it is too easily controlled, and that if he had a response to more things, he would enjoy it better.
However, this raises my question. How do I get him to invest into his deck? He has a really bad habit, and it is this: If I have 20 dollars to spend, I'll put 10 towards the current modern deck I am working on, and 10 towards my commander. What he does is spends all 20 on his modern deck.
Is there *anything* I can do to get him to spend his money wiser? He wants to play with us when we play EDH, but he (and others in the group) simply don't sink in *any* money into their decks. Even when my friends and I make direct card suggestions that are 50 cents or less, they don't get cards. They are convinced that they only want to use cards they get in boosters or drafts, but then proceed to not even use those because they are too garbage.
I guess we will just have to stop playing EDH with him. He isn't like this in other formats. He still holds to the claim that he doesn't enjoy EDH because our decks are vastly better than his. While that is true, I find it troubling that he can argue this when he was the one that actually screwed over the win for the other people by scooping. Worst of all, during the one game, when I was close to having a Sorin on the field (I was playing without tutors as per the achievements, and was just trying to draw my way through my library then), and my other friend was finding ways to take an extra turn after everyone else's turn (achievements don't prevent this) he decides to focus all his murder cards and destroy artifact/enchantment cards on someone using Nekusar in an unmodified commander, just because he didn't like losing 2 life on his turn.
Fast-foward a few games, this individual becomes habitual in complaining that in commander, he doesn't like that he can get so easily controlled, but he said this after someone murdered his commander once. This individual has a habit of getting upset with infinite combos. Infinite combos are not always the most fun, I agree, but the situations didn't nearly warrant complain. The game had dragged on for ages, the person with the infinite combos made a lot of mistakes that could have progressed the game faster using some beaters. One person exiled the card that would have granted him a lot of his infinite combos, and that same player controlled him aggressively.
In the end of that game, the controlling player died at the hands of the individual who complained about it all along. This player then scooped because he said he would "surely lose to infinite combos." The two other players then started hammering the third guy with infinite combos. They would have won... if the individual didn't scoop.
The cycle always goes "Play commander - Moan about being controlled - Moan about infinite combos - Scoop when you feel like you have no chance - ignore people who tell you to stop playing commander - repeat." This person has gone as far as to actually say "I just don't like that whenever I have a win condition on board, someone stops me." To which we pointed out that it would make no sense to let someone have a massive win condition, and that he's actually just complaining because we don't *let* him win intentionally.
It's come to be annoying because this person will complain to himself about everything out there. Our playgroup finds infinite combos fun, he doesn't, and that's fair, but he had multiple times tried to win with commander damage, and then complained that taking control of his commander and attacking him with it was "broken and not fun." He doesn't like *anything*. Then he frequently scoops and basically prevents other players from having any chance of winning.
We want him to stop, but he won't quit the format, and we have no clue why. We tried talking to him about it multiple times and he just changes his reasoning a lot, and acknowledges it. He is still a friend, and we know he isn't trying to be a real Geth's Verdict, so we can't just not let him play if he wants to. We play commander a lot, and it wouldn't be fair that he can't come down because we will be playing commander.
So, what can we say to get him to either enjoy the format or leave the format?
*If both bandits are dead, killing the king does not grant them victory. The game continues as normal. This is to ensure the assassin doesn't have to kill the king last, which can be tricky and cause him a loss. When both bandits are dead, and the king is dead, the knight becomes "defender of the Realm" (just a title, no perks) and can still win the game for himself if he becomes the last one standing.
*When the usurper kills the king, he does not become the king until he ends his turn.
*if the king dies, the usurper must kill the defender of the Realm to become king.
Optional Rules:
*You may only tap a permanent with the same name 5 times on your turn, and only twice on each opponents turn. (This is to protect against infinite combos).
Ex. Charlie uses blasting station with some other cards to allow him to continuously tap and untap blasting station. He may only tap it 5 times on his turn, and 2 times on each opponents turn, *Even if it was copied or returned to his hand, as long as it has the same name, only 5 times and 2 times (the exception being something that copies the card but retains its own card name)
*when the king is killed by the assassin, the knight becomes defender of the Realm and has 40 life if his life was less than 40.