I think what makes the game so frustrating is that aside from the baked in issues of drawing random cards - the vast majority of the player base assuming there hasn't been a wild shift in age since I last looked, doesn't have the discretionary income to maneuver a meta shift.
I love playing modern elves but when my opponents are plopping down haymakers on t3-4 that essentially win the game or ripping through 4+ spells a turn with value on the backend it can't compete.
What is frustrating about modern to me is that it really is legacy lite. There are very few "affordable" decks and if I were 15 and sweating my butt off for hours a week making minimum wage just for crap like Phoenix to hit the meta and largely invalidate my deck in the local meta I would throw my hands up and give up.
One of the things I dislike about the game is people specifically hating on particular decks locally. If all I can afford is fetchless storm and I run hot one week, how depressing is it for everyone in the room to pack 2-4 dampening spheres next week...it's the pinnacle of poor sportsmanship in my eyes.
Locally I've seen a bunch of great players with great attitudes fall out of love with the game before they hit the tournament scene because the price barrier of the format stops them from switching decks/archetypes to be able to play and grow locally. There are a lot of, imho not so small, negative hurdles one has to overcome if you decide to play at the higher end tournaments.
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mapccu posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)Posted in: Modern Archives -
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Renegade Rallier posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)A curated online metagame spreadsheet that shows healthy ratios and numbers might be an objective truth, but it could also mean absolutely nothing in the context of a local environment.Posted in: Modern Archives
Telling someone that certain fair decks have a good metagame share on mtggoldfish or whatever mean jack ***** when they could actually be playing against tron/dredge/H1/Phoenix 3/4 of the time locally which causes the negative feelings towards the format.
Online stats do not magically invalidate someone's local experience of Modern. -
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the nobodys posted a message on Mirrodin BesiegedBam! That was easy.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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M1sgu1ded1 posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)Posted in: Modern ArchivesQuote from MrTzoulis »I never said Phoenix is as fair as Jund/UWx (which have "degenerate" plays like cheating on mana with BBE and Terminus or ignoring timing restrictions -more evident now with T3feri) or just "fair".
Phoenix is a mesh of aggro/tempo/combo elements which show depending on their opening hands and which turn of the game you are in. It isn't a monolithic aggro/combo deck that wants to smash face as fast as possible, it can and will grind.
My problem is with putting Phoenix on the same level of "degeneracy" as Dredge, Griselbrand decks etc. If Phoenix is degenerate on that level, then the decks I mentioned in my previous post are also degenerate if not more, because their fastest draws beat Phoenix dead. Words like "degenerate" have been bestowed with (severe) negative connotations that provide nuance. If you're fine with completely different things being lumped together and described with the same term, then ok, but it isn't based on their inherent structural properties. Dredge abuses the graveyard and needs it to win, while Phoenix simply uses it as a resource, as many decks are doing (including Jund/Rock and UWx), just with more intensity. There's a fundamental difference there.
That was the point of my previous post, degenerate is a subset of unfair decks, and Phoenix is (probably most of the time) an unfair deck which modern has plenty, not degenerate. (Ab)Using that loaded term as one and the same as "unfair" will get us nowhere, the words have differing intensity. We as a community should start distinguishing and establishing those terms if we want to have a conversation where we're all on the same wavelength and not just flailing around. It will help keep the conversation grounded and probably help fit decks in molds faster.
Most posters here have established that every deck is on a sliding scale of linearity/reactiveness/degeneracy, whatever. Just because someone used the word "degenerate" doesn't mean that it's 100% BS combo or whatever, just that the sliding scale is farther on the degenerate/unfair side of things versus the fair side. I see your point of using unfair instead of degenerate as 'lighter' language, but I think most of us see the caveat of it being the sliding scale, moreso than a black-and-white definition. Just my $0.02, /shrug. -
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CavalryWolfPack posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)I feel like I need to reiterate the article: We are building something new. It's gonna be awesome, you'll see.Posted in: Modern Archives
Also, unban Twin. -
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tronix posted a message on End of an Erayeah this definitely disappointing, though im grateful for years of service from everyone in the background supporting this site through thick and thin.Posted in: Modern Archives
something being in the works to carry on the soul of mtgsalv is heartening, and i would definitely join when and if it ever comes to fruition. as others mentioned a base of a traditionally styled forum would be great, and it doesnt need to be fancy or anything out the gates (im assuming some content-management-system is planned to be used). i dont think any social media integration is warranted (id personally prefer none). card linking functionality is needed of course.
it may also be helpful to establish continuity of the content from here, even with something as simple as linking the end of threads to new ones established at the new site. no reason not to leverage ongoing user generated content to set the tone of the new location as an information hub (mtgsalv is still going to dominate search algorithms for years to come). i havent looked too much into what discord offers in terms of integration plugins, but i think itd be neat to have a balance of 'chat' functionality and more comprehensive forum threads at some future point after things are established.
also dont forget (or feel bad about) asking for donations, and having links set up to take them. im not averse to chipping in what little i can from time to time, and optional crowdfunding can be a powerful tool.
cheers~ -
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khaosknight69 posted a message on [MH1] Modern Horizons Discussion ThreadCarrion Feeder could push the old Finks combo decks. Now each piece of the combo has a 5-8 of redundancy: Melira/Vizer, Finks/Redcap, Feeder/Viscera Seer.Posted in: Modern
I also believe Eldamaris Call is being slept on. Possibly as inclusion in the above-mentioned combo deck but also in many other creature decks that might like a toolbox approach. -
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Ulka posted a message on End of an Erahttps://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/49777-the-end-of-an-eraPosted in: Modern Archives
Over the past few years, MTGSalvation has become very much my home and most of that is due to the community like the Modern community. It has been an honor and a privilege to talk magic, modern ban list philosophy even with the chaos that can ensue and even more the deck brewing and philosophy with you all. On behalf of the staff past and present thank you all so much for helping us create this wonderful community.
But Im not just getting sappy in this post, there is more.
As Feyd mentioned in the article, we are working on a new home for anyone that wishes to follow us on that journey. It is still very much a work in progress, but our goal is to make our new home even more of a community site than what we have now. Beyond that, I can't say much just yet, but as we get closer I'll keep everyone informed in this thread.
If you have any questions or better yet, have any input on things you would like to see then please feel free to post in this thread and we will respond to the best of our abilities.
Ulka -
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Marquisd posted a message on We are still providing preview coverage through Core 2020The site will be live until July 8th which means that we will have Coverage of the next preview season, and hopefully by the time this place closes we'll have a new location for you. We still plan on being one of the best places for previews aggregation and new card discussion.Posted in: The Rumor Mill -
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tronix posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussionyeah i wouldnt be surprised to see the horizon lands bottom out at around 15. which is kind of ludicrous for rares in a print to demand set with such mass appeal, but the higher price tag on the product is what it is. they are also kinda 'no-brainer' long(er) term holds, so even people opening them who dont need them right away arent going to be rushing to sell. foils are probably going to be crazy right from the get go without dipping much, if at all.Posted in: Modern
i do want to pick up some copies to play so ill probably just bite the bullet at anything under 20; rather than waiting around 1.5-2 months to save 15-20 bucks. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Hey man, it lets me tap out for Thing or Kiln Fiend, and then FoN on my opponents T3feri. Thats a huge win for fair decks everywhere.
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While I appreciate what you are trying to do, you don't pour gas on a fire.
If Hogaak is the big thing (and it appears to be) then one would be a fool to not account for it. After we determine if one can hate it out, let's see then?
Yes, we all get it, it's obnoxious to run 6+ dedicated hate cards but that's life IF Hogaak remains popular.
If it works, and we can hate it out? Wizards won't care, and won't ban anything.
As to people who claim the format is healthy, well that's between them and their conscience.
I can only say that Wizards does not care how successful Dredge and Phoenix have been, and until shown otherwise I have zero reason to believe they will care about Hogaak, if we can suppress it.
Diva has something like a 60% win rate against it. Just accept it exists, and Ravenous Trap/Surgical/Void.
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You cannot look at 5-0s but SCG Top 16, Day 2s, Modern Classics, Modern Online Challenges (especially) and GP Top 16s are all meaningful data if you wish to metagame for Online or larger competitive events.
I've done it, it's fine.
It's not worthwhile for FNM.
What data is going to even matter?
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Yep, mostly agree. You have a fair Disruptive Aggro deck, a fair Super Friends Control deck, and a deck that can kind of pivot into something fair (which is my preference as a way to play it) with an unfair game 1 plan.
This is fine. The format has shift, fundamentally imo, within the last year. Its not going to go back now.
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'Jace is too good, being fatesealed is terrible, it would ruin Modern.'
Pros, grinders, 'thinkers' and writers all said that.
Some of us knew otherwise.
The only metrics that should matter, are.
1. Win Percentage.
2. Time impact on Tournament Play.
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It would (will?) be beyond obnoxious.
If people find this thread unbearable now, let's start thinking about us fighting over 1 mana difference, or 1 toughness.
No thanks.