I haven't looked at Nahiri for a while, but new cards like Narset and Force of Negation would definitely slide in that deck.
Would there be room for Little Teferi? If you are going Nahiri + FoN, throw in 8 Bolts + Snap + Little Teferi and the deck practically builds itself as a tap out Control/Combo deck.
Throw GoST in the side for those games against Tron, and you are off to the races imo.
EDIT: This may actually be the deck I keep around, for ease of swapping to 'real control' with Big Teferi, Breach Combo, and Kiki-Resto...
I would not worry about it further. What contributions have those folks ever made? What deep discussion points? What numbers and data? Other than ktk, and a few people who posted (anecdotal) information from MTGO, and myself doing actual comparisons of Top 8 data throughout the life of the format, this thread has ALWAYS been long on opinion, short on fact.
The sites always been biased and allowed them free reign, it certainly wont change now.
I'll just say this Torpf. I've been personally attacked (as far as being attacked online on a forum goes lol) far more than most, and I've been the one eating the 'warnings'. Hell, one of the admin's on this site even has me blocked on Twitter and I've never spoken to them in my life.
The double standard's and bias is out of control around here, and thats why I've had to just put several people on ignore because they get away with it, and I never do.
Calling me out specifically like Earthbound does, when I dont think I've ever even conversed with him/her, and you just let people like gkourou snipe from the sideline over and over and people like Colt spout absolute NONSENSE for years with no repercussions?
I dont know what the drama is anyway? I've made a concerted effort to indicate that objectively, especially when Hogaak didnt wipe out the last weekend, that Modern is OBJECTIVELY fine.
My 'hill to die on' is simply that the ban list is inconsistent, and from a consistency point of view, the logic of the ban list is not applied in an objective manner.
Sure, I had a good long period of complaining about Twin, but we are all passed that at this point are we not? I mean imagine 'knowing' that Twin should be banned in 2019? Thats like thinking SFM would rule the format, in 2019!
I believe the last 3 years prove that they know that was a mistake, it's the only deck that actually died.
Amulet (nerfed due to clips of turn 2 insanity) still around and viable.
Dredge - laughs in Creeping Chill.
Infect - still fine.
Storm - still fine.
KCI - legit too good, with a comical win rate, but it was only banned once SCG grinders (and vocal twitter users that they are) decided to play it instead of the tier 2 stuff they prefer. I believe Nass had an 80% win rate at one point?
Just watch the trends driven by the twitter/SCG/cfb types and you'll have a decent idea of what's going to get hit.
Wizards has even lifted common arguments in their announcement straight up from tweets by those people.
It's not about data and competitive integrity, how could it be when they don't understand the format?
Your 'Future' list of controls is exactly why while I personally feel Wizards is doing it wrong, the 'Path 1' is the only one that makes sense. Slippery slopes and all that.
In the end, I'm more and more sure that the real rule which govern's Modern is 'is there high enough public outcry to do something'?
1. Accept Modern as what it is, warp your deck around it, and accept infrequent bans/unbans if something gets nuts.
In what world is this not the only option? Nobody here has any decision making authority over WotC or the format. We choose to play or not.
Because we actually do have an ability to influence things. KCI would not have been banned if not for player outcry. It did not have an overwhelming presence in the meta, did not win more Top 8's than Phoenix.
If this thread united behind something, and snowballed into SCG articles, Twitter, and Reddit, something would be done.
I cannot for the life of me figure out how anyone could think Karn, GC should take Splinter Twin's spot on the banlist, other than that person played Twin when it was legal and has lost to Lattice lockout. How is a 4 mana tutor for a 6 mana lockout piece more egregious than a combo that ends the game on T4 and forces you to play responses? I think Twin would not end the world if it were unbanned, but I do not think GC is near Twin's level of deserving it's original ban.
Have not lost to it myself because I dont stick to decks that dont interact on the stack for more than a few games. I think its ability to tutor is more of an issue than anything else, and F Tron.
As I mentioned, Path 2 is a subjective one. Ultimately, Path 1 is what we will have. Modern is what Modern is. If you like it great. If you dont, move on, because it wont change other than to increasingly be less fair over time.
Is a Turn 4 Karn into a Turn 6 Lattice an issue? Not at all.
Is a Turn 4 Karn AND Lattice an issue? Probably not, its preferable to Ceaseless Hunger because you can at least hope to interact with either part, but in the end? Its a card Tron can use, and...I dont care for Tron having multiple options.
1. Accept this is current form of Modern, understanding that you can play what YOU want, but...you play against Modern.
OR
2. Start pushing for a whole swath of ban's that will actually 'fix' (if you perceive current Modern as a problem) the format.
When/If they ban Looting/Bridge, it wont really change the format. Just like banning KCI did nothing worth really worrying about for the VAST majority of the people playing the format. Something else obnoxious will come up, and then what? Ban Stirrings? Opal? Urza?
I am under no illusions they will ever follow path 2. Just as I'm under no illusions that Modern is as diverse as people like to fool themselves into thinking, or that its 'healthy' from a subjective point of view.
The tide is turning on Looting though, and Wizard's have told us that 'perception' from the community is a consideration now.
Just dont blame them when your new overlords dont let you cast spells.
As we near the end here my thoughts return to several months back.
There are 2 paths for Modern, and they depend upon on not what you want to play, but on what you want to play against.
You can PLAY near whatever, and if you warp to the meta you'll be fine. I don't believe anyone can argue against that.
The problem is, what are you playing against, and are the games fun for you? Well that's an individual opinion.
So what are the 2 paths?
1. Accept Modern as what it is, warp your deck around it, and accept infrequent bans/unbans if something gets nuts.
This is how Wizards has approached the format for some time, roughly 3.5 years.
2. Push for a rebuild of the ban list. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BAN MANIA. No, what this path is, is an acceptance that Modern is flawed, but that to fix it, would take multiple bans to bring the power back down and free up some actual diversity in the format.
Would it improve Modern? If you are an 'option 2 please' person, yes, and that's it.
Either you accept Modern for what it is, and you embrace the decks you play against, or you push not for a few bans, but whole sale changes to the format.
As for me? It's not realistic to hope for option 2. So I accept what I cannot change, and continue to just churn through the days until I take a good long break, by playing Warcraft Classic.
Modern is what it is, good, bad, or just Modern. Your cards don't disappear if you put them in storage. They don't lose $ value if they are in a box.
Don't like Modern as it is? It will not change from this path, it's too far gone.
Either a lot of bans are coming, or you accept Modern for what it is, or you take a break.
That's it.
EDIT: Typo's and Card Tags as I posted this from my phone.
Would there be room for Little Teferi? If you are going Nahiri + FoN, throw in 8 Bolts + Snap + Little Teferi and the deck practically builds itself as a tap out Control/Combo deck.
Throw GoST in the side for those games against Tron, and you are off to the races imo.
EDIT: This may actually be the deck I keep around, for ease of swapping to 'real control' with Big Teferi, Breach Combo, and Kiki-Resto...
The sites always been biased and allowed them free reign, it certainly wont change now.
The double standard's and bias is out of control around here, and thats why I've had to just put several people on ignore because they get away with it, and I never do.
Calling me out specifically like Earthbound does, when I dont think I've ever even conversed with him/her, and you just let people like gkourou snipe from the sideline over and over and people like Colt spout absolute NONSENSE for years with no repercussions?
Its unfair, and needed to be said.
My 'hill to die on' is simply that the ban list is inconsistent, and from a consistency point of view, the logic of the ban list is not applied in an objective manner.
Sure, I had a good long period of complaining about Twin, but we are all passed that at this point are we not? I mean imagine 'knowing' that Twin should be banned in 2019? Thats like thinking SFM would rule the format, in 2019!
Amulet (nerfed due to clips of turn 2 insanity) still around and viable.
Dredge - laughs in Creeping Chill.
Infect - still fine.
Storm - still fine.
KCI - legit too good, with a comical win rate, but it was only banned once SCG grinders (and vocal twitter users that they are) decided to play it instead of the tier 2 stuff they prefer. I believe Nass had an 80% win rate at one point?
Just watch the trends driven by the twitter/SCG/cfb types and you'll have a decent idea of what's going to get hit.
Wizards has even lifted common arguments in their announcement straight up from tweets by those people.
It's not about data and competitive integrity, how could it be when they don't understand the format?
In the end, I'm more and more sure that the real rule which govern's Modern is 'is there high enough public outcry to do something'?
Because we actually do have an ability to influence things. KCI would not have been banned if not for player outcry. It did not have an overwhelming presence in the meta, did not win more Top 8's than Phoenix.
If this thread united behind something, and snowballed into SCG articles, Twitter, and Reddit, something would be done.
Its a late addition. I'm not sold on it being a problem.
Have not lost to it myself because I dont stick to decks that dont interact on the stack for more than a few games. I think its ability to tutor is more of an issue than anything else, and F Tron.
As I mentioned, Path 2 is a subjective one. Ultimately, Path 1 is what we will have. Modern is what Modern is. If you like it great. If you dont, move on, because it wont change other than to increasingly be less fair over time.
Is a Turn 4 Karn into a Turn 6 Lattice an issue? Not at all.
Is a Turn 4 Karn AND Lattice an issue? Probably not, its preferable to Ceaseless Hunger because you can at least hope to interact with either part, but in the end? Its a card Tron can use, and...I dont care for Tron having multiple options.
Either you.
1. Accept this is current form of Modern, understanding that you can play what YOU want, but...you play against Modern.
OR
2. Start pushing for a whole swath of ban's that will actually 'fix' (if you perceive current Modern as a problem) the format.
When/If they ban Looting/Bridge, it wont really change the format. Just like banning KCI did nothing worth really worrying about for the VAST majority of the people playing the format. Something else obnoxious will come up, and then what? Ban Stirrings? Opal? Urza?
I am under no illusions they will ever follow path 2. Just as I'm under no illusions that Modern is as diverse as people like to fool themselves into thinking, or that its 'healthy' from a subjective point of view.
The tide is turning on Looting though, and Wizard's have told us that 'perception' from the community is a consideration now.
Just dont blame them when your new overlords dont let you cast spells.
I still think that T3feri is the most offensive (by game design) card printed in the last 3 years.
Easily the worst since Thought-Knot and Smasher.
There are 2 paths for Modern, and they depend upon on not what you want to play, but on what you want to play against.
You can PLAY near whatever, and if you warp to the meta you'll be fine. I don't believe anyone can argue against that.
The problem is, what are you playing against, and are the games fun for you? Well that's an individual opinion.
So what are the 2 paths?
1. Accept Modern as what it is, warp your deck around it, and accept infrequent bans/unbans if something gets nuts.
This is how Wizards has approached the format for some time, roughly 3.5 years.
2. Push for a rebuild of the ban list. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BAN MANIA. No, what this path is, is an acceptance that Modern is flawed, but that to fix it, would take multiple bans to bring the power back down and free up some actual diversity in the format.
You would ban.
Faithless Looting
Burning Inquiry
Bridge from Below
Creeping Chill
Manamorphose
Terminus
Ancient Stirrings
Allosaurus Rider
Teferi, Time Raveler
Narset, Parter of Veils
Karn, the Great Creator
And probably.
Mox Opal
Simian Spirit Guide
You UNBAN
Stoneforge Mystic
Splinter Twin
Would this dramatically change Modern? Yes.
Would it improve Modern? If you are an 'option 2 please' person, yes, and that's it.
Either you accept Modern for what it is, and you embrace the decks you play against, or you push not for a few bans, but whole sale changes to the format.
As for me? It's not realistic to hope for option 2. So I accept what I cannot change, and continue to just churn through the days until I take a good long break, by playing Warcraft Classic.
Modern is what it is, good, bad, or just Modern. Your cards don't disappear if you put them in storage. They don't lose $ value if they are in a box.
Don't like Modern as it is? It will not change from this path, it's too far gone.
Either a lot of bans are coming, or you accept Modern for what it is, or you take a break.
That's it.
EDIT: Typo's and Card Tags as I posted this from my phone.