- Why renowned weaponsmith? He can make 2 mana without any support, unlike Sculptor/Engineer. This is very important, beacuse there are too much killing spells on modern and opponents starts to suspect if they see these ramp guys on the table.
- lodestone golem is interesting one. but I'm scared he is not bolt immune. But i definitely try.
@grahf1980 I will gladly speak to both of these points, but first I completely understand and respect building with budget restrictions. It will be an interesting challenge and I'm sure we can help you smooth out a budget mana base etc, but more on that later.
My arguments against Renowned Weaponsmith are twofold. The first ties directly into your comment about the shear amount of kill spells in modern. Yes, our ramp creatures help us drop larger bombs, but the most reliable and pressuring plays are those where we can get the payoff immediately and that means playing things like Myr Superion etc on the same turn that we play our ramp creature. You are absolutely right that Chief Engineer, Renowned Weaponsmith, Grand Architect have huge targets on their heads and so we want to sequence our spells in order to minimize that risk. For example, if we have a Glint-Nest Crane, a Myr Superion, and a Chief Engineer in hand it is much better to play the Crane turn 2 and follow it with the Engineer and tap out for the Myr on turn 3. That way if the Engineer eats a bolt, we were still able to land our threat. Similarly, I will frequently wait till turn 4 to play my Grand Architects if they are not immediately impactful on turn 3 and can sequence into a large spell turn 4. Now Renowned Weaponsmith cannot do this. It has the same big target on its head but if it eats a bolt or a push the turn it comes into play, it has done nothing other than be a lightning rod and there is no way for immediate payoff.
Secondly, Renowned Weaponsmith can never make more than 2 mana, while Chief Engineer frequently generates 3+ mana depending on the available plays. Etherium Sculptor can also equate to lots of mana and has the benefit of being an artifact, but if you look through more recent posts, this guy has fallen out of favor for me.
Lastly, you make a good point about Chief Engineer and Etherium Sculptor needing support. It is the exact reason why I have dropped Sculptor from my lists (he can rarely cast a Myr Superion) but in the case of Engineer, the support is almost always there if you are playing a healthy number of 2-drops as I think everyone should (hopefully we will find some 1-drops to add to the list as well, but I haven't been happy with any so far).
You should really give Lodestone Golem a try. It has proven to be one of (if not the most) powerful cards we play. There has been extensive discussion about it on both this thread and the mono-blue Architect thread and I suggest you give it a shot. It's restricted in Vintage for a reason
@Ulka: I like what you've done with the place It is shaping up quite nicely. I'll happily send some card choice and deck explanations your way.
@ghgiunco: The latest build has been performing well for me. I can't decide if I want Spellskite in the main or not and I have been missing my Phyrexian Metamorphs. Also Slaughter Pact isn't very good in a Death's Shadow meta. I really want the new Liliana's Defeat to be legal. I am gathering the cards to update my paper deck and should be playing at a tournament with that soon. I'll post some analysis after that.
Welcome grahf1980! Heartless Architect is a ton of fun to play and we're glad to have you here in our discussion!
First of all it's good to have an esper player in here. The two splashes I have thought about a lot are red and white and I am interested to see how adding white goes for you. Path to Exile is one of the biggest appeals. We have Fatal Push in black now, but removal is something we have always had trouble with.
My initial advice for you is to replace Renowned Weaponsmith with one of the more powerful artifact ramp pieces. I prefer Chief Engineer but Etherium Sculptor also can make for some sweet plays. Also you may want to choose a few fatties that you always want and tutor those up from there. that will also give you more space to play cards to keep you alive in the early game. Lastly, you should check out Lodestone Golem. It has proven to be one of the strongest cards we can play, especially when we get multiples (Phyrexian Metamorph helps with that).
@ghgiunco, I'll respond to your comments when I get a chance a little later on today
I've been playing almost exactly that same list a lot over the last few days, the only change being replacing one of the maindecked Fatal Pushes with a Dismember. I am liking the list a lot. It has a lot more interaction with the opponent than the previous lists I've been playing lately. My main takeaways are:
Walking Ballista + Basilisk Collar is really good against a lot of decks. I am considering adding a second Collar in the mainboard, it is especially fun when attached to Scrapheap Scrounger because opponents hate blocking it. I like 2 Ballista because it is tutorable with both Trinket Mage and Tolaria West but could be convinced to play 3.
I like the 2 Scrapheap Scroungers in the mainboard right now. They ideally will eventually be replaced by better 2-drop artifact creature but for now the recursive beater helps against a lot of decks, especially when paired with Basilisk Collar like I said above.
The 1 Yahenni's Expertise in the main is nice because it enables a lot of what we do and is especially against wide aggro decks like Abzan Company. The 2nd copy comes in when it's really necessary.
Spellskite might get moved to the sideboard completely. It used to be really good maindecked against prominent decks like Splinter Twin, Infect, and Bogles, etc. but currently I think I want more pressure or interaction in it's place.
I am less happy with Nephalia Academy than I was before. It is good, but only if you can play turn 1 and I'm not sure if the benefit is worth another colorless land.
Tormod's Crypt has been a really good replacement in the sideboard instead of Nihil Spellbomb. It doesn't draw us a card, but costing nothing has been relevant multiple times and being tutuorable with Tolaria West is also super useful.
Inquisition of Kozilek is also good in the sideboard for matchups where we need more interaction but I'm not sure yet if I would want to play the discard in the main.
I still really struggle against Death's Shadow decks. Fatal Push misses all of their big creatures and I have a hard time beating through them. I lost a game against a jund deck because they resolved an Olivia Voldaren and I had extremely limited answers. The Dismember that I added was an attempt to combat these but I think we need more. The spoiled Liliana's Defeat seems like it could be good for us in the sideboard.
Agree in term os fast and discard has been helping me a lot. cause this have a card i started to look with more love: Filigree Familiar, its ensures something we need, tempo, like life chump block and replace itself, card advantage i think is much important. Cut Superion isnt crazy ? it make pressure, its akward.
The problem i see with all lower CMC its cant make pressure enougth. If we have euipament support ? idk the early really the problem, my game with jund was so close, cause many discards in hates, fatal on keys, and Phyrexian Metamorph on wurmcoil do great work
I like Filigree Familiar a lot. I have been playing 2 in my sideboard for awhile and they are amazing against burn and a lot of other aggro decks.
Cutting Myr Superion is always an interesting conversation. It is true that it is a risk to lay Superion because it gets stuck in your hand and dead cards are one of the worst things that can happen, but currently I am of the mindset that casting Superions is one of the most broken things we can do. Plus there are so many good enablers for casting it now that I think it is very worth it.
I don't like Master of Etherium. Whenever we have lots of artifacts on the field we are generally already ahead. It just dies if you play it after a Heartless Summoning and turn 4 after an architect its just a 2/2 or maybe a 3/3. It seems pretty underwhelming.
I am also very skeptical of Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard of your most recent list. Cutting Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and Spellskite means you only have Walking Ballista as a wincon through bridge and then you are only running 2 of them. It seems to hurt you a lot.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Tez for the time being. I personally wouldn't play less than 2 but it is true that you are playing a less heavy artifact build.
On slow point: I understand your points, sometimes yes and sometimes no, but wondrously yesterday all goes well, and if i put other drop 2, i guess Etherium Sculptor to make a shell for Tezz maybe. I just would not know what to cut, i guess i felt it by push the build dor midrange, idk i'n wrong
This is an issue I have been thinking about for a long time. One of the problems with this deck is that Modern is fast. Lots of decks plan on killing you by turn 4 and can occasionally do it earlier. Your 4 discard and 4 removal mainboard is one solution to this problem but sometimes the deck just can't put pressure on the opponent before turn 4/5. I have tried shifting my lists into lower CMCs, including the time when I was mainboarding Scrapheap Scroungers alongside my Myr Superions. I think the Glint-Nest Crane has helped my early plays a lot and I have grown to prefer Chief Engineer over Etherium Sculptor because it is much easier to cast Myrs off of him.
Spellskite in this meta i guess skite so, cant find exact word, obsolete maybe, maany removes it cant save and a decide to try this cut
I understand your points on a lot of these cards. Spellskite especially because it isn't nearly as good in this meta as it was in infect/splinter twin/etc metas. I think I would still take more convincing to cut it because it is our Welding Jar that protects against all targeted removal and can block while it's at it.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas although he win me some games i start to think sometimes he dont work how i need, and according the book (Next Level Deckbuilding) its not good a card ho not work well all time and i try the cut. (if he was 3 mana PW *dream*)
This I don't agree with at all. I can't think of any matchups where I don't want Tez on the field. Worst case scenario he replaces himself with the selected card draw and absorbs some damage. In other situations he creates 5/5 indestructibles and ults to win games. An unanswered Tez points us leagues ahead of our opponent. What situations do you not like him?
Regarding your list, do you ever feel like the list is slow with only having Heartless for a 2-drop? And do you ever have problems getting your Myr Superions stuck in your hand having only 8 ways to cast it?
Before Gitaxian Probe got the axe I always wanted to run a deck with it, discard spells, and Pithing Needle in order to Needle the opponent's fetchlands. Maybe you could try out Pithing Needle here to add to meddling-type abilities.
I've actually been toying with building a grixis list with Simian Spirit Guide for a little while. Turn 1 heartless is extremely tempting. It dodges a lot of issues we have and greatly accelerates our game plan. I think it is worth testing. I might pick them up on MTGO too.
I don't like Rhonas's Monument. We don't play any green creatures and there are lots of better ways to pump our creatures.
We could test Bontu's Last Reckoning but for now I think I would prefer Yahenni's Expertise in the side because it takes Heartless Summoning's slot when sideboarding very nicely because of the fact that it can cast our Myr Superions and other threats on the same turn we wipe the board. With Reckoning, we need to wait till turn 5 to play another creature unless we already have a Heartless on the battlefield.
I look forward to your experiences with the discard spells during your next FNM.
I used to play Silent Arbiter in the sideboard against Splinter Twin decks but currently I only see it as possibly useful against Affinity, Dredge, and possibly your scourge: tokens.
So to answer a few of your questions, I was playing 1 Doom Engine in the MB as well as 1 in the SB but I decided I wanted the mainboarded one to be a Duplicant for more interaction with the opponent.
I'm glad you are also liking Nephalia Academy. I think it is a smart 1of for us.
I am only playing 2 Ballistas and that is partially because they don't really work well with Heartless Summoning or Yahenni's Expertise. And the thing that I like about the Ballista/Collar combo is that it can clear out our opponent's blockers so we can smash through. So the damage from the Ballista itself isn't the game plan especially since I'm not playing bridges.
I agree about Trinket Mage. I have always been on board with the Trinket Mage/Treasure Mage toolbox packages and you are doing the same thing as me in switching them out for a Crane or two. Also to note, I have switched Tormod's Crypt into the SB in Nihil Spellbomb's spot because it is tutorable with both Trinket Mage and Tolaria West.
My main concern with where I am at with the list is that it has gotten very unfocused, so I'm trying to think through what the best game plans we have are.
Idk about getting rid of Fatal Push in the mainboard. I know you are trying to use discard to make up for it, but it feels bad to not run any creature removal at all. Sometimes you need to remove a combo creature or a DS or Goyf that's sitting in your way.
I have recently been trying out 1 Nephalia Academy in the MB and it is actually pretty good. It is really good against Liliana of the Veil and any hand where you can drop it turn 1 on the play is really good against Thoughtseizes and Inquisitions.
Also, I recently picked up my playset of Walking Ballistas and they have been playing very well. The extra interaction with opposing creatures has been extremely helpful especially against decks like Abzan CoCo. I am running 1 Basilisk Collar in the SB but haven't actually assembled the combo yet.
The idea behind Hulk was early game cycling but then having an unblockable attacker later to help beat board stalls. Combined with other cheap cantripping artifacts like Chromatic Star puts it online more often. But I just never had a point when I really wanted it.
I know you addressed not having a partner of a different color, but what about playing Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix as a partner commander. She is in the same color scheme and she also helps your ramping game plan.
3 Heartless Summoning
2 Chief Engineer
1 Yahenni's Expertise
3 Myr Superion
2 Scrapheap Scrounger
2 Spellskite
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Walking Ballista
3 Glint-Nest Crane
1 Trinket Mage
2 Mulldrifter
2 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
1 Darksteel Citadel
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Tolaria West
4 Polluted Delta
4 Watery Grave
1 Sunken Hollow
5 Island
2 Swamp
1 Yahenni's Expertise
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Treasure Mage
1 Claws of Gix
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Filigree Familiar
1 Duplicant
1 Scuttling Doom Engine
@grahf1980 I will gladly speak to both of these points, but first I completely understand and respect building with budget restrictions. It will be an interesting challenge and I'm sure we can help you smooth out a budget mana base etc, but more on that later.
Lastly, you make a good point about Chief Engineer and Etherium Sculptor needing support. It is the exact reason why I have dropped Sculptor from my lists (he can rarely cast a Myr Superion) but in the case of Engineer, the support is almost always there if you are playing a healthy number of 2-drops as I think everyone should (hopefully we will find some 1-drops to add to the list as well, but I haven't been happy with any so far).
@ghgiunco: The latest build has been performing well for me. I can't decide if I want Spellskite in the main or not and I have been missing my Phyrexian Metamorphs. Also Slaughter Pact isn't very good in a Death's Shadow meta. I really want the new Liliana's Defeat to be legal. I am gathering the cards to update my paper deck and should be playing at a tournament with that soon. I'll post some analysis after that.
First of all it's good to have an esper player in here. The two splashes I have thought about a lot are red and white and I am interested to see how adding white goes for you. Path to Exile is one of the biggest appeals. We have Fatal Push in black now, but removal is something we have always had trouble with.
My initial advice for you is to replace Renowned Weaponsmith with one of the more powerful artifact ramp pieces. I prefer Chief Engineer but Etherium Sculptor also can make for some sweet plays. Also you may want to choose a few fatties that you always want and tutor those up from there. that will also give you more space to play cards to keep you alive in the early game. Lastly, you should check out Lodestone Golem. It has proven to be one of the strongest cards we can play, especially when we get multiples (Phyrexian Metamorph helps with that).
@ghgiunco, I'll respond to your comments when I get a chance a little later on today
I like Filigree Familiar a lot. I have been playing 2 in my sideboard for awhile and they are amazing against burn and a lot of other aggro decks.
Cutting Myr Superion is always an interesting conversation. It is true that it is a risk to lay Superion because it gets stuck in your hand and dead cards are one of the worst things that can happen, but currently I am of the mindset that casting Superions is one of the most broken things we can do. Plus there are so many good enablers for casting it now that I think it is very worth it.
I don't like Master of Etherium. Whenever we have lots of artifacts on the field we are generally already ahead. It just dies if you play it after a Heartless Summoning and turn 4 after an architect its just a 2/2 or maybe a 3/3. It seems pretty underwhelming.
This is my current list:
3 Heartless Summoning
2 Chief Engineer
3 Myr Superion
2 Scrapheap Scrounger
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Walking Ballista
3 Glint-Nest Crane
1 Trinket Mage
2 Mulldrifter
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Fatal Push
1 Yahenni's Expertise
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
1 Darksteel Citadel
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Nephalia Academy
1 Tolaria West
4 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Watery Grave
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Claws of Gix
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Duplicant
1 Scuttling Doom Engine
2 Filigree Familiar
1 Treasure Mage
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Yahenni's Expertise
This is an issue I have been thinking about for a long time. One of the problems with this deck is that Modern is fast. Lots of decks plan on killing you by turn 4 and can occasionally do it earlier. Your 4 discard and 4 removal mainboard is one solution to this problem but sometimes the deck just can't put pressure on the opponent before turn 4/5. I have tried shifting my lists into lower CMCs, including the time when I was mainboarding Scrapheap Scroungers alongside my Myr Superions. I think the Glint-Nest Crane has helped my early plays a lot and I have grown to prefer Chief Engineer over Etherium Sculptor because it is much easier to cast Myrs off of him.
I understand your points on a lot of these cards. Spellskite especially because it isn't nearly as good in this meta as it was in infect/splinter twin/etc metas. I think I would still take more convincing to cut it because it is our Welding Jar that protects against all targeted removal and can block while it's at it.
This I don't agree with at all. I can't think of any matchups where I don't want Tez on the field. Worst case scenario he replaces himself with the selected card draw and absorbs some damage. In other situations he creates 5/5 indestructibles and ults to win games. An unanswered Tez points us leagues ahead of our opponent. What situations do you not like him?
Regarding your list, do you ever feel like the list is slow with only having Heartless for a 2-drop? And do you ever have problems getting your Myr Superions stuck in your hand having only 8 ways to cast it?
Edit: Also congratulations on the 4-2!
I don't like Rhonas's Monument. We don't play any green creatures and there are lots of better ways to pump our creatures.
We could test Bontu's Last Reckoning but for now I think I would prefer Yahenni's Expertise in the side because it takes Heartless Summoning's slot when sideboarding very nicely because of the fact that it can cast our Myr Superions and other threats on the same turn we wipe the board. With Reckoning, we need to wait till turn 5 to play another creature unless we already have a Heartless on the battlefield.
I used to play Silent Arbiter in the sideboard against Splinter Twin decks but currently I only see it as possibly useful against Affinity, Dredge, and possibly your scourge: tokens.
3 Chief Engineer
3 Heartless Summoning
3 Myr Superion
3 Spellskite
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Lodestone Golem
1 Sphinx Summoner
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Duplicant
3 Glint-Nest Crane
2 Mulldrifter
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Darksteel Citadel
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Nephalia Academy
1 Tolaria West
4 Polluted Delta
4 Watery Grave
1 Sunken Hollow
6 Island
1 Swamp
2 Fatal Push
2 Yahenni's Expertise
1 Filigree Familiar
1 Trinket Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Claws of Gix
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Scuttling Doom Engine
So to answer a few of your questions, I was playing 1 Doom Engine in the MB as well as 1 in the SB but I decided I wanted the mainboarded one to be a Duplicant for more interaction with the opponent.
I'm glad you are also liking Nephalia Academy. I think it is a smart 1of for us.
I am only playing 2 Ballistas and that is partially because they don't really work well with Heartless Summoning or Yahenni's Expertise. And the thing that I like about the Ballista/Collar combo is that it can clear out our opponent's blockers so we can smash through. So the damage from the Ballista itself isn't the game plan especially since I'm not playing bridges.
I agree about Trinket Mage. I have always been on board with the Trinket Mage/Treasure Mage toolbox packages and you are doing the same thing as me in switching them out for a Crane or two. Also to note, I have switched Tormod's Crypt into the SB in Nihil Spellbomb's spot because it is tutorable with both Trinket Mage and Tolaria West.
My main concern with where I am at with the list is that it has gotten very unfocused, so I'm trying to think through what the best game plans we have are.
As far as Padeem, Consul of Innovation goes, I think it could be good, but I think Ulka's route with Kira, Great Glass-Spinner is just better because it comes down a turn earlier and works so well with Spellskite.
Scuttling Doom Engine is working well as a 1-of. There are a lot of match-ups where cards like Lingering Souls are just trying to slow us down and stall us out. This helps a lot and is a ton of fun alongside Claws of Gix and Academy Ruins.
I have recently been trying out 1 Nephalia Academy in the MB and it is actually pretty good. It is really good against Liliana of the Veil and any hand where you can drop it turn 1 on the play is really good against Thoughtseizes and Inquisitions.
Also, I recently picked up my playset of Walking Ballistas and they have been playing very well. The extra interaction with opposing creatures has been extremely helpful especially against decks like Abzan CoCo. I am running 1 Basilisk Collar in the SB but haven't actually assembled the combo yet.
I am considering Scuttling Doom Engine more now in either the side or 1of in the main. I like that it gets past Lingering Souls tokens as well as a lot of other little chump blockers like Snapcaster Mage