MTG Salvation

Just won a 4 round + top 8 event playing Ancestral Faeries.

R1 2-0 - BTL Scapeshift
R2 2-1 - BTL Scapeshift
R3 2-0 - UWR Skred Swans
R4 ID. - GW Hatebears
T8 2-0 - UR Storm
T4 2-1 - Naya Burn
T2 2-0 - Ad Nauseam

AV felt great. I won all matches where it resolved, and managed to chain them. Bitterblossom and Spellstutter felt like the best cards in the deck. Discard is awesome. List felt tight.
I did get lucky in some draws of mine/bad top deck of oppponent. But that's just how magic is. I wouldn't say Faeries is THE deck to play, but it seems like it finally can play well and keep up with the format.

The list:


Edit: Might drop 1 Relic for Mindbreak Trap for combo decks like BTL Scapeshift, Ad Nauseam, Storm and the decks that stack a lot of spells/fight for spells to resolve. Other than that, maybe drop Hurkyls for 2 bounce spells like Repeal/Echoing Truth/Wipe Away.

Faeries feels good again, hope it continues to do so.

Hello Esper fellas, I've been thinking about reviving this deck. I am uncertain whether I want to be playing geist + Bob and a lower curve or go higher and more control-y.

This is where I am atm:




Only thing that concerns me is getting answers for enchantments like Leyline of Sanctity or prison cards like Suppression Field. Maybe 1 or 2 Disenchants should be on the board.

I don't know if Esper can outshine Eldrazi, Tron and the remains of BGx in this new metagame to come, but I believe we can stand a good chance.

Quote from majiger »

I guess not enough people play affinity and hatebears here since I never got a good Drown off.

Caverns are definitely on the list to get next. At least 1 feels like it would do wonders against other blue decks.

As I said in the post with the lists, I am intending to go to a GP. So I don't want to deviate from decks that ARE going to be present and WILL perform good. Affinity IS going to be present and, after Wescoe's performance, GW Hatebears too.

Quote from Metillon »

Quote from majiger »

I guess not enough people play affinity and hatebears here since I never got a good Drown off.

Caverns are definitely on the list to get next. At least 1 feels like it would do wonders against other blue decks.

It does, I played it for a long time. However, blue decks already get destroyed big time against us. Ghost quarter is better in that position to counteract Tron's manabase. However, if your meta is full of Twin, it is devastating and totally worth it!

Also, Mistbind Clique just won me two games against Naya Burn. I will smash a kitty against the wall, everytime people board them out.

@darktutor: Glad that you are back! Consume the Meek seems to be absolutely terrifying for Elf, Affinity and company decks. It would probably require a 26 manabase to be reliable though.

Yeah, some people just want to see kittens die against the wall.. MBC is not the best card against burn, but boy does it gain you life, time and can close a game!

Yeah, elves is a great part of the metagame as well as Melira combo. Conseume the Meek in response to a persist trigger also shuts the combo down pretty hard as well as kill all the pesky dorks. But I feel like Drown is more efficient, though.
I'd love if you could check the lsits I posted a page back as I'm trying to build for GP Melbourne and your feedback will be valuable.

Buy him 3 Vendilion Clique, 4 Bitterblossom, 4 Spellstutter Sprite and 3 Thoughtseize.

Quote from BadsMirch »

I didn´t say EE was only creature removal, the reason I play it is mainly for creature removal, if boogles wasn´t a deck I would prob. run some other sweeper. I don´t think I ever used EE against any of the cards u mention, maybe Skite somehow but not intentionally why I would side it in, and I don´t think I ever would try to do so. Most of those cards are not rly. played and those that are are bad decks which most of the combo prob. would be sided out against post sb. so they would be dead cards.
Are those Thragtusk in the sb. mainly for burn? Cause that´s a trap play vs. skullcrack.

I didn't mean to imply that you said such thing, my post was kind of an addendum to yours.

Swagtusks are there against Jund/Junk/Grixis and 3 colored mirror, as they are a great topdeck. They can be something against burn, but it's a really late play, with dispel backup. Once burn has run out of gas you can deploy it and even twin it. Very cute, but not really there just for burn.

Quote from Gul_Dukat »

the plan vs living end is counter living end in this deck.

------------

Kozilek's return is an insane card and will be played in many decks, especially Jund (it's a card that flips affinity MU over when paired up with Bolt, K Command and Grudge).
Kozilek's Retrun is a card that improves Twin's MUs against affinity (this card consolidates that MU) and Merfolk (it doesn't flip the MU over, but it helps a LOT in fightning it). It can be something against hatebears (though lategame) and also against Soul Sisters (not really showing up lately), but it's definitely worth a slot.

It shouldn't replace either Clasm or Anger, but should be the 3rd copy of those effects.

That's my 2 cents about the card.

Quote from Equinox2793 »

Port would be way too good because if you ever get ahead of your opponent in mana you can lock them out of the game with port + blood moon + choke + other land destruction. If port had a higher mana cost to tapping lands like 3 it would be fine.

Rishadan Port + Blood Moon doesn't work.
Rishadan Port + Choke is a 2 card combo that doesn't win the game and only affects a small portion of the metagame.

Quote from ThatStoryTeller120 »

http://modernnexus.com/gp-pittsburgh-p-and-analysis/ Huynh and faeries made news with the 13 and 2 record. I think Id like to hear what he has to say about his experiences if he writes an article.

This fills me with pride and shame. Seeing a Fae list go undefeated D1 and finish with a 13-2 record missing T8 'cause of breakers, makes me believe again and feel wonderful about Faeries being my favorite deck ever. It also makes me feel bad about stopped playing and folliwing Faeries, as I wanted to win more competitively and started playing a RUG brew that gave me so many good results (as well as twin and grixis control). But this makes me want to play it again. Unfortunately this weekendI have another important thing to attend to, so won't be possible, but I promise to become an active faerie tester again after that.

This is what I'll be testing:



I want to keep a faithful copy of the GP deck, while still adjusting it to my local metagame to get a proper porting of the list. I believe that we all HAVE to copy this list (save minor changes) and fresh start our testing from there. Going 13-2 at a GP out of nowhere is not something we see every day, so I believe the best we can do to improve is use that list as a starting point and temporarily disregard -but not forget- our previous testing. From there we should see if we can notice a big winrate % difference with other iterations and start constructing improvements.
I also 'improved' the manabase, as I don't believe that we need shocklands in here, but adding more basics definitely makes Sunken Hollow a good inclusion. This deck doesn't really care most times about T1 untapped lands (having only 8 1drops) so I think it's a safe inclusion, and even easy to fetch untapped mid to late game. I've cut 1 Ghost Quarted to reduce the chance of getting mana screwed and to add another stutter, which I just love too much and is very necessary in my metagame.

I will miss my set of remands and my lilis, but as I said, I firmly believe that in order to progress, it's necessary to accept that our own iterations are not the best out there and we have to reinforce lists that get good results and understand why and how to get even better results.

I haven't been so excited about the deck in months, I hope this isn't just a temporary hype. I want to believe again!

Quote from Berwald »

Now, before I am crucified from playing a card like Quickling, allow me to say that it has been quite useful in my list.
I believe that the reason why it hasn't worked before is because it was often played within a heavier control shell (more spell focused).
Don't get me wrong, it doesn't outshine our other Faeries. However, it does flicker and save the better ones from death. (IN STYLE~)

I may be delusional but I have often believed that Sudden Spoiling is our version of a one-sided Damnation.
Removes any aggro during the opponent's turn. And it removes pesky flyers or punishing abilities during our turn.

Play a good number of games (not less than 20) against different decks. Tell us how the quickling worked, keeping in mind these 3 factors when you draw it:

1. How many times did you play it and it rocked? How did it rock?
2. How many times did you play it and it was meh? As in not impressive
3. How many times did you have it in your hand and felt miserable because of it?

Be honest, don't try to force it when you draw it, just let it be and tell us how it performed. Even though I hate it, I am in favor of testing/playing it if it pulls some good work.

Sudden Spoiling is a tempo card, in the sense that it makes us lose tempo. For the 2 purposes you want to play it you have Cryptic Command which does the same thing while countering a spell, bouncing a pesky permanent, or drawing a card. I don't believe this is comparable to Damnation, or any sweeper as it needs to work alongside blockers or cards like Drown in Sorrow, which requires a lot of set up or a high board advantage to be effective.

Quote from Nardraug »

The 4 scions do seem counter intuitive to using swords (plus all the k-cmds), but I ran 3 scions main for a while and swords in side and I had them in together, it was usually fine. I do think Quickling is worth a try, I ran it in standard for a few months with other flash creatures and I rarely had issues there. I will be looking at my cards tonight to figure out what 75 I use tomorrow. But if people use Familiar's Ruse, why not Quickling? It's easier to use than Mistbind - Mistbind costs 4 and you need 2 other faeries to guarantee safety. Quickling costs 2 and is more of a counter than anything else. Either counter their removal or bounce and re-use a spellstutter (for 4 total). You just have to be smart about your plays.

Also, anyone going to be trying any of the new cards out? I am thinking of trying an Ob Nixilis Reignited... we'll see. I think everything else that we'd be interested in costs 1 mana more than we'd be willing

Part the Waterveil
Horribly Awry
Spell Shrivel
Complete Disregard
Ulamog's Nullifier

Although that looks like a good start to a standard deck lol

Swords vs Scions:

Scion and Swords are not that of nonbo. I used to play 4 Scions and a sword and never had troubles with it.
These are the scenarios I had to face when playing that combination of cards:

1. I had the sword before the Scion so I could attach it before giving Shroud
2. I had the Scion before the sword so I attached the sword to the Scion
3. I had two Scions in play, so I didn't even care about the sword (In the sense that I was not the one worried about dealing with board state)
4. I never drew the sword (often)
5. I never drew the Scions (rarely)
6. I never drew the Scions nor the swords (almost never)

Familiar's Ruse vs Quickling:
Ruse a very good card as it pushes you forward so much when you're ahead in the game. It can be tricky when you're even in board state, and it's a pain when you're behind or have no boardstate.
Quickling has the same problem, while instead of helping control with a hard counterspell it can blank removal, re-buy an ETB or just go aggromode against difficult MUs (Like Tron).

I am not an advocate of these 2 cards, but I lean more to the Ruse, as I have played it in the past and was somewhat satisfied by it. Nonetheless, I wouldn't play more than 1 Ruse or 2 Quicklings. It's never good to rely on synergies only, your cards need to be good on their own, so even though I don't use cards that are only good in synergy, I am in favor in testing them as if we find the correct synergy list, the deck has potential to be a blowout. Going that route is tricky, and underwhelming when you're behind, but if managed to get a 60 so powerful and redundant that these cards work, I'm all in to jump in that train.

The New cards:
Part the Waterveil: I hate the timewalk effects in Faeries, sorry can't give an objective perspective here. I'd rather play any of the already available effects though.
Horribly Awry: Strictily worse than Essence Scatter and Remove Soul
Spell Shrivel: Hate it, sorry. I'd even play Cancel over this. For the same CMC and effect you already have Dissipate.
Complete Disregard: This can actually be good against Etched Champion, I wouldn't disregard this card completely ;-)
Ulamog's Nullifier: Too conditional to be effective, wouldn't really play it over a Cryptic Command or Mistbind Clique (which are at the top of our CMC curve)

Quote from LTZ »

Alot of people are trying to slow this deck down by playing more controlling cards like lili and ash. if i was to play a PW in this deck i would play jace b.
I dont think that's the way to go anyways.
i think we should be more of a tempo deck (i believe we are the best tempo deck in the format since the ddt/cruise bannings killed delver).

I believe Lili is a great way of dealing with games, especially those ones where we fall behind. She's a great card against Burn, Aggro, Control, Bogles, Combo and Tron. Every time you draw a card and wish it was something else, lili takes care of it by symmetrically discarding a card from both players hand, while growing in loyalty with a game winning ultimate. She also forces to change the angle of attack (not just combat phase, but the changing the lines of play) of your oppponent. She is another 'must answer' card in the deck, and she works pretty well there.
Jace Beleren works symmetrically as well with his +2, though drawin cards is something we don't want our opponents to do with our resources. Yes, in theory he will draw you 3 cards for each card your opponents draw, but more often than not it will be a 1UU 'each player draws a card' sorcery and then eat removal or get crushed by creatures. We don't play combo and we are not fast (in the sense of aggro) to close games, so I wouldn't play him. When Beleren was good in faeries Lili didn't exist, neither did Ashiok. So, a 3CMC planeswalker that drew cards was more than just good.

Ob Nixilis Reignited seems like a maybe sideboard card. It requires a lot of effort to get there, but he should be able to win you the game on his own. His synergy with lili is strong too. 5CMC is steep though.


EDIT: So much commenting made me forget about the cards I wanted to discuss:
Soul Manipulation: I don't think this card is optimal or super flexible but it's neither a bad card. It's an Essence Soul with recursion attached, you might say. But I see it as a recursion card with the possibility of getting a 2-for-1 against other decks. I counter your creature and buyback my V Clique/M Clique/ Stutter/Snapcaster/Whatever you play. I don't know if I would play it MB or sideboard. But it looks good against BGx and Zoo/aggro, where we have to chump block a lot and our creatures get killed easily.

Glen Elendra Archmage seems like a good card to fit even in MB nowadays. The 2-for-1ness of the format atn is undeniable, and is another card that can help us get there, while keeping up the Faeries count. I'd play 1/2 in the 75.


We have a lot of work to do here if we want to rise again.

Quote from Breathe1234 »

Are we only running 2 Tasigurs because he is legendary?

Jokes aside 2 reasons: Angler beats for 5 (which means that survives AND kills opposing Tasigurs and most Goyfs), and there's the legendary clause that makes it awkward when you draw another one or you mill one and activate the tasigur you have on the field.

This forum seems to be the catch all for Sultai strategies, so until one of them gets the tier rating necessary to warrant it's own forum I am in favor of updating the title to include all sub archetypes.

Quote from darktutor »

Quote from CharonsObol »

We don't auto-lose G2 to Affinity running Whipflare.

I mean, that's gotta be worth changing the whole deck, right?

While that is helpful, it's kind of the most niche scenario you could possibly wish for against affinity. Burrenton Forge-Tender covers this problem without making the deck weaker to the rest of the field's sideboard, while also providing an edge against a lethal Galvanic Blast or a removal aimed at your best dude.

I'm deeply saddened that you thought I was being serious. The oddball suggestions in this thread just got slightly too real.

While people are bringing up playing red in the deck I finally did it!

Starting up a twitch series soon...

I don't have a ton of info to share but know this...

It's going to be fun and enlightening. As I get closer to launching the series, I'll fill you all in on the plan. Hope you are excited about this!

-catmix

my opponent ran away before I could find out if this game was winnable :c

Death&Taxes: mtgTop8 Quicklinks

What is this post about?
        Despite the recent meta-wide popularity of Death&Taxes (and the BW-Eldrazi variant in particular) the posted results still seem to be sorted under a number of crazy titles. Searching through Hatebear, Flicker, Eldrazi, etc. results to find actual Death&Taxes listings can often be a pain, especially when you just want to compare the top few recent decks in your splash color.
        This list uses google-fu and short-links to type the "Decks must contain following cards"-entries into mtgTop8 so you don't have to.

Search Posted Wins
The links below are sorted from top-to-bottom following wide-to-narrow applicability. You can hover-over the links here and bookmark them to your browser. Favorite and forget it.

 

• Death&Taxes / / Hatebears      (Searches for: GQ, Vial, and ThaliaGT.)
These results are super general and not necessarily D&T. Though, sometimes it's useful for comparing Death&Taxes vs. Hatebears.


• WX-Death&Taxes      (Searches for: Wisp, Vial, and ThaliaGT.)
Finds >95% of all D&T decks (all color variants) while excluding Hatebears decks with decent accuracy (Hatebears tends to not run Wisp).


• WGX-Death&Taxes      (Searches for: Forest, Wisp, Vial, and ThaliaGT.)
Finds white-green D&T lists as long as the pilots packed at least one basic Forest.


• WBX-Death&Taxes      (Searches for: Swamp, Wisp, Vial, and ThaliaGT.)
Finds white-black D&T lists as long as the pilots packed at least one basic Swamp.


• WRX-Death&Taxes      (Searches for: Red, Wisp, Vial, and ThaliaGT.)
Finds white-red D&T lists as long as the pilots packed at least one basic Mountain.


• WUX-Death&Taxes      (Searches for: Island, Wisp, Vial, and ThaliaGT.)
Finds white-blue D&T lists as long as the pilots packed at least one basic Island.


• WXC-Death&Taxes      (Searches for: TKS, Wisp, Vial, and ThaliaGT.)
Finds most Eldrazi D&T lists, even most micro-splashes, since TKS is often the biggest reason to dabble in Eldrazi.


• WCX-Death&Taxes      (Searches for: EzTemple, Wisp, Vial, and ThaliaGT.)
Finds heavily-splashed Eldrazi D&T lists by searching for maindeck Eldrazi Temple; this will often miss Eldrazi micro-splashes.

Why?
        I mostly made this post because I got annoyed manually typing entries into mtgTop8 and figured others might be in the same boat. Some of you may already have your own work-arounds but for everyone else, here it is. The formatting is a little over the top but I wanted to grab everyone's attention to gauge interest. (And maybe selfishly snag some likes in the process; Muwahahaha! <--evil laugh)

Suggestions
If there are some important searches that you feel I missed (or better search cards for a given splash/variant) feel free to PM me a suggestion.

Quote from Gul_Dukat »

you just said you commonly go for the combo and get path'd.


you should never combo unless your about to die, or you can protect it or they don't have ways to interact with it. like if their playing mono green ramp

your playing the deck wrong.

Ok, easy there.

First, @PraiseTheKappa, I will say that I do agree with Gul_Dukat that Pact of Negation is not ideal. I'd almost call it unplayable in this deck at the moment. There are just too many cases where you need your protection spell for other purposes. We aren't hyper focused on the combo, but even if you are trying to jam it on turn 4/5, more often than not, cards like Inquisition and Dispel will do almost the same job as Pact (if not better sometimes), while being much better in any noncombo situation. Especially with all the burn decks and blue mirrors running around, I'd highly recommend those two over Pact. Straight U/R Twin would be more likely to play Pact, given their reliance on the combo and ability to support it a little better, but even they are more likely to play stuff like Spellskite and Dispel instead. That said, if you still want to test it for yourself, you absolutely should.

@Gul_Dukat, chill out dude. He's new to the deck, and is simply asking for advice. No need to berate him and tell him he's playing the deck wrong. I wouldn't exactly call this sound advice either:

you should never combo unless your about to die, or you can protect it or they don't have ways to interact with it

When to combo is a very sensitive choice, yes, but you can't limit yourself to restrictions like this, just as you can't always jam the combo on turn 4. Sometimes you try and jam the combo even if you aren't about to die, or you aren't sure they have interaction. Usually, yes you wait until the coast is clear or you are forced to combo under pressure, but sometimes those things are unknown and you still have to go for it. There is no "wrong" way to play the deck, it's personal preference.

At the very least though, have some respect. Don't just yell at a fellow poster for not knowing the optimal way to play this strategy. Be helpful. That's what the threads are for. Saying something like this would be much more preferable:

"In general, it's better to wait for the combo until you have a good opening, or you are forced to try and win before your opponent kills you. Sometimes you jam it on turn 4, but usually you are better off waiting until you can protect the combo, or when your opponent taps out foolishly. Running into removal every time is a sure sign you are being too hasty with the combo. Just take your time, and remember to do everything at their EOT whenever possible to give you maximum control over the game."

That's much more constructive advice for Kappa than, "you're doing it wrong."

Quote from Mitorah »

Quote from cwalumd »

If you have guides for different common matchups, I think that would be very helpful to the community. I would certainly love to read them.

Indeed. I have FNM this friday, and I was thinking of bringing faeries to the table and I could use all information I need.

I have a lot of personal notes. I will give the infect guide first. Afterwards, we will see how it goes .

Quote from Cikan »

(See page 169 taking out the Go for the Throat for a H. Recall in the board for deck list. Very much like the Metillion list).

Bladiebla. Tournament succes!

Well done! Always those stupid semifinales >.< . I don't think that dropping Tect Edge is a real deal. Scapeshift and Tron are still not your friends and I found it overperforming in the Jund matchup, were every removal spell counts. That said, new builds of jund are favourable for us (unlike unfavourable junk lists). Bitterblossom is a house now they run 2 Abrupt Decay. My thoughts about all the matches is pretty much the same. It's great to have another sample going on with the list I have been developing for months now.

I only scored very humble results during the last FNM. Being very tired left my play a lot to desire for.
1-1 draw against RG tron
2-1 win against RG tron
0-2 loss against Zoo Company
2-0 win against 8-rack. I have no idea how 8-rack is supposed to win once the opponent gets acquantained with it. It realy is a one-trick pony.

Also, Darktutor, I love you your results and your considerations about anticipate et al. A faeriedeck should have powerful draws, not such cards. I like your experimental, but competitively orientated mind. Really helps us to beat the meta . Grats! Also love the 4 Lilianas.

I still feel that UB Faeries are reasonably well-positioned in the meta. However, the upsurge of Company decks might really shrink our chances.
----------------

No one else in my meta plays Faeries, so it was a ton of fun Friday to be that guy.

As long as you win you should feel proud . I also have no one else to play and test faeries with. In my country (Holland) Faeries has the highest top8/attendence conversion rate of all decks, guess who played faeries solo .

What are thoughts on Extirpate or Surgical Extraction as a side option? Let's you see hand, can mess with graveyard stuff, can potentially pull cards out of their hand (and library), can kill a combo deck (not that faeries needs help there) - can depower a goyf at instant speed and I really like the phyrexian mana cost aspect. I suppose the question would become, what do you take out that does less work? I guess really, these cards don't effect the game enough to take a slot or two when we already have such good disruption.

Actually, against Tron the cards are nice. A one-off is perfectly justifiable, I would not get anywhere beyond that though. We don't need more than 3-5 slots against combo decks, however, these slots need to be general and good.

Has Sage's Dousing been tested? It seems we run a lot of wizards..

No, did you?

How about Condescend ?

Did you?

Delay?

Good against counter mirrors. However, we already beat counter mirrors so hard that we don't usually care.

Dimur Charm?

Has some sidedeck merits. Can remember some suggested it during the Cruise-Delver Era.

Quote from Gregaries »

I believe might have mistaken Sakura Tribe Elder and Veteran Explorer.

Haven't even finished the primer and I'm already getting trolled by someone's troll account.