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  • posted a message on Colorless Eldrazi Tron
    I tried 3x Thorns today, you can see the sideboard attached. went 4-1. Thorns were very good vs Ponza and Burn. No combo was seen that day. Loss to Mirror match, 1-2: they drew perfectly game 2 and just barely better game 3.


    Closing the league with an incredible match vs Ponza (Screenshot).
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Colorless Eldrazi Tron
    Aggro decks are usually filled with smaller creatures so the 3 Spatial Contortions are really good, you pair them up with Chalices, All is Dust, double batterskull, 1 Collar and Spellskites or Ballistas and should be pretty good even without dismembers. We don't suffer that much from aggro as we have a lot to bring in for the early development and a lot of big stuff to deal with the leftovers.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Colorless Eldrazi Tron
    Quote from Heenock »
    Surgical is meh against Ad Nauseam


    I disagree with this, a surgical will lead to a shuffling of the deck which is the worst thing that can happen with all the scry.


    I'm sorry but countering a scry is not where you want to be with sideboard cards. That is the very definition of 'meh'.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Colorless Eldrazi Tron
    Quote from SirQuincelot »
    Wait, what? for combo why are we taking out Pithing Needle it kills Nahiri, Kiki, A bit of affinity, Most of ad nauseam, meaning its mana acceleration, and others like Aether Vile. Its an all around hate card

    Nahiri decks have access to Wear // Tear (and many, many other artifact hate), and they WILL bring their artifact hate against a tron deck running Chalice of the Void.
    Kiki decks run Reclamation Sage and Qasali Pridemage in the main (meaning they don't even need to use a SB slot for this, hell even then they have 1/2 extra slots for these kind of cards as well), in addition they can tutor them with Chord or Evolution.
    It doesn't really do anything against affinity, which is not a bad MU and doesn't require PN to be sided in.
    It stops nothing except Lightning Storm from Ad Nauseam, which they don't care about since they can go Labman + Visions and win.
    Aether Vial is not such a scary card, we don't run counterspells anyway. We have better things to bring against Merfolk and D&T.

    Quote from D90Dennis14 »
    I don't think that Lodestone Golem comes down early enough (unless you run mana acceleration like SSG) to do anything against combo decks, Thorn of Amethyst might be more reasonable but also seems rather weak as it it doesn't present any pressure (like Thalia in D&T).


    Yeah you make a good point, it comes down on T4 anyway most of the times, so the best should be 3/4 Thorns + Chalices as the main pieces of hate + TKS to take their outs from their hand and lock em out of the game.

    Quote from BASEDGOD »
    It's worth noting that spellskite is great against Ad Nauseum because it can defend your hate pieces against their 1-of echoing truth. I also leave a single dismember against them. Anyway, I've found the Ad Nauseum matchup to be great but the RG valakut matchup to be horrible. I guess it's differences in luck and build.

    I really have to find some space in my SB for surgicals, they're great against tron and valakut because of our ghost quarters.

    Ad Nauseam is not a great MU. If they stumble and you have good mana you can run away with the game, but if they have the combo on T4 with 1 Mana rock you're dead and you can't do anything about it.
    Spellskite is not good vs Ad Nauseam, it doesn't even stop the kill from Lightning Storm (they can let your spellskite activations resolve, discard another land, let your spellskite resolve again and so on until you have no more life to pay for it). And, yes, as said by others, they have to side in Slaughter Pact in the MU so they will have access to it, should it represent a problem. Remember they have access to Tolaria West to tutor for pacts as well.
    Surgical is meh against Ad Nauseam, and great vs Valakut with GQ or Map.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ad Nauseam is the one combo deck we can interact the least, so if you expect it to be present and -more importantly- doing well in your meta, you should start looking at 3/4 Thorns of Amethysts in your board. They are not just good against AN, they are great vs Control, other combo decks and regular Tron.
    Titan Scapeshift allows us to interact a bit more. We have Warping Wail for their sorcery speed ramp spells, their Angers for value (kiling 1+ Reshapers) and it also counters Scapeshift, which is 50% of their wincons. Paradoxically, Chalice on 2 is great in this MU, as it counters 14 ramp spells on its own, but then again it comes down most of the times too late (unless T3 tron on the play), I said paradoxically because it counters Warping Wail and lets scapeshift resolve uncontested. Thorns seem pretty good for the MU in addition to Wails, Chalices and TKS.
    Titan Breach is harder for us as it comes down mostly a turn earlier and doesn't rely on resolving ramp or sorceries that much. They play Summoner's Pact + Through the Breach using/abusing Simian Spirit Guide. So there are T3 plays that don't require them to cast a single spell before going off. Now, that is very scary. Again, Thorn of Amethyst makes this impossible until hitting 7 mana, which will require to cast at least 2 ramp spells (up to 3/4 ramp spells if they don't draw monkeys and/or stumble in land-drops), which will cost 1 more and will subsequently give you 2+ extra turns to tell the story.

    Thorn of Amethyst doesn't win you the game, but it makes it so you can play more magic and have an actual shot at pressuring the combo decks and punishing them for not playing creatures. Time you can use to resolve an Ulamog of Kozilek and ride it to victory, or multiple Smashers/Endbringers to close it fast. Time this deck doesn't have against these decks, which are a big portion of the metagame.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Colorless Eldrazi Tron
    Combo decks in Modern: 28 % of the metagame
    Dredge 6 % Fine MU.
    Valakut 5 % Bad MU.
    Infect 4 % Good MU.
    Ad Nauseam 3 % Bad MU.
    Creatures Toolbox 2 % Fine MU.
    Bloomless Titan 2 % Random MU (this one really comes down to Chalice on time)
    Instant Reanimator 2 % Fine MU
    Living End 1 % Fine MU
    Elves 1 % Fine MU
    UR Storm 1 % OK MU
    Walks 0.X % Fine MU
    Jeskai Ascendancy 0.X % Haven't played it but my guess is it's a fine MU.
    Cheerios - Combo 1 % Good MU.

    Ad Nauseam can be hosed with Thorn of Amethyst and/or Lodestone Golem. The former makes mana rocks slower but potentially better, the latter doesn't slow down the rocks but clocks really fast. Either of them makes the combo cost 12, 8 for AN + AG and 4 for Lightning Storm and the cantrips 2.
    Titan Scapeshift can be slowed down with the same cards. Thorn is good at making their combo turn 5/6+ and Lodestone is the same, but dies to Bolt and Anger. They should be siding those outs against this deck though, so not sure how much it affects it.
    Titan Breach can be slowed with both, and is especially more punished because they run the full set of Pacts, which forces them to pay 7 for TTB without a titan in hand, or to break the combo down to 3 turns. 1 for pact, 1 to pay for it, 1 to go off. They play less bolts as well I think.

    Most other combo decks, and control decks also, are hosed by those two (especially by Thorn).


    Some notes with the regular build against Ad Nauseam is that a Chalice on 1 leaves them out of Spoils, Cantrips and Ange's Grace. So they are force to go off an Unlife and AN naturally drawn. Also, if a game would go on long, or if you get Tron T3, a Chalice on 3 wins the game on the spot*, as they can't play any of their kill conditions.
    *Unless, of course, they draw randomly an Echoing Truth or something.

    I think I'd rework my board like this:

    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Colorless Eldrazi Tron
    I'm playing the Pascal Maynard stock list -2 Skite +2 Ballista, the deck is such a blast to play! So far 2 4-1s in Comp Leagues. Walking Ballista is one of the absolute best cards in the deck, considering adding a 3rd one over 3rd Endbringer.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Death and Staxes
    Quote from Stabil0 »
    @Darktutor
    I did not count Ghostquarter. Sure in this MU it can be worth it to GQ yourself. But for example against Abzan you want to play T2 RIP but you wouldn't want to T2 GQ yourself. I'm definitely curious to hear if it works out like this for you though!


    I don't mind playing RiP in T3+ against Abzan, they're not a GY combo deck. Against a Griselbrand deck, or a Gifts Storm I wouldn't mind the land loss. Against Abzan the Chalice is way more important than the RiP (The same is true for Gifts Storm), as it turns off Discard and their main sources of removal: Path and Push, leaving only 2 Decays and 1 Pulse (maybe 1 Dismember too), goyfs you can shrink a turn or 2 later. Without their 1 drops they can't really profit from Scooze and Lingering Souls on its own is slow. I don't think the difference between winning or losing in the Abzan MU comes down to dropping a RiP in T2.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Death and Staxes
    Quote from Stabil0 »
    Quote from darktutor »
    Seems like the deck is working spot on. You're going to have to start writing the MUs and the sideboarding aspects of the deck. I'm keen on building this on paper.

    Edit @Manabase:
    In regards of Cavern and Forge I think the manabase could be rearranged to support better the colors:



    The caverns will often grant the white for your Thalias so there will be no need to ping yourself with Forge or spend the Energy for white that often, so you can outright save it for the monkeys should you need them, or just grab the lifelink value of your vehicle. You're playing Caverns as well so you might already be lucky and have +3 white/red sources there. I'm also not sure you need Wastes at all, as Blood Moon shouldn't be a card you need to worry about all that much with 6/7 Thalias and 4 TKS in the main + 2 Purges in the board.


    I'm on vacation this week so no playtesting and no bigger updates to the primer. But it will come in the future!
    I do like your mana base - it looks good. It might very well be correct to not play basic wastes, I did not consider that.
    If we follow Frank Karstens guideline on mana base we would need 13 white sources on T2. Your mana base provides that but only for creatures. To reliably cast Stony Silence /RIP on T2 we would need a few more sources. Just something to keep in mind.

    I count 15 sources for Stony Silence: 2 Canopies, 5 Plains, 3 Aether Hub, 1 Eiganjo, 4 Ghost Quarter. Up to 18 if you have Gemstones on the draw. I am willing each and every time to GQ myself to get out Stony on T1/2 vs Affinity/Tron/Lantern, add Chalice to the equation and you're so ahead in the MU. BTW, I consider Chalice a better drop to Stony Silence in all those MUs (maybe not vs tron, depending on whether they played eggs or map), as if they have Natural State/Nature's Claim they can't use it anymore.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Colorless Eldrazi Tron
    Quote from 123shumpy »
    Im telling you from months of play with the deck that ancient stirrings is good, you don't need to cast it on turn 1 its good at every point in the game. It is a very powerful effect that does a lot for the deck. Also just because nobody on mtg goldfish isn't playing it just means they haven't tried it, probably because there playing the same stock list everyone else is. Im not saying that Chalice isn't great because we all know it is, but there are other great options for this deck and ive found that ancient stirrings and path are very effective.


    Yes, stirrings and path are good, that's why GW tron exists. There is a thread to discuss Gx tron decks and it isn't this one. Here the deck is Colorless and it doesn't want to play stirrings, nor green sources. It's not just a 1x1 swap (you can't just take out chalices and bring in stirrings), you have to warp the manabase and many other slots in the main deck to profitably play that single green spell (like the chromatic eggs). This decks says 'screw eggs and stirrings, let's just play Eldrazi threats instead' and chooses to play TKS, Reshaper, Smasher and Endbringer.

    There is no room for stirrings in the deck, it's not a deck that improves with stirrings, it's a bad Gx tron if you choose to play stirrings in C Tron.
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on Death and Staxes
    Quote from SpiderSpace »
    Help me understand how this actually functions as when I look it at it, I'm just seeing a super all-in style deck that's just hoping it works and if it doesn't, it folds.

    EDIT: My heartless summoning idea was an effort to make it more consistent.


    You keep a hand that has a good T1 play (Thalia or Chalice, pref chalice) and build from there a la DnT, but with great top end threats that can come into play faster if you have the cavern out of if you draw a monkey. The power level of a consistent Chalice on 1 is something even the Eldrazi Stompy players couldn't resist back in the Eldrazi Winter. Shutting down Fatal Push, Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Serum Visions, Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Spell Pierce/Snare, and all the powerful 1 drops of the format (Noble Hierarch, Glistener Elf, almost all elves/dorks, Gutshot, Galvanic Blast, Signal Pest, Expedition Map, Ancient Stirrings, etc etc etc) + the additional value of being a powerhouse against decks like Living End and shutting down Ancestral Vision in any random topdeck war is just insane in the format, that's the big glue that holds RW prison together, Chalice is almost always better than Moon but they compliment each other very well, just as Chalice + Hatebears with the appropriate manabase like this deck is proposing.

    I find it more than interesting, and the fact that it's getting 3 5-0s in MTGO is not something to pass by unattended. This is a very promising start, if more people pick it up it may consolidate as a new contender. #Hyped

    Heartless summoning makes the deck weaker and doesn't do anything on its own, you can at least chump and live to see another draw step with the monkey and it doesn't leave your entire board vulnerable to Anger of the Gods.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Death and Staxes
    Seems like the deck is working spot on. You're going to have to start writing the MUs and the sideboarding aspects of the deck. I'm keen on building this on paper.

    Edit @Manabase:
    In regards of Cavern and Forge I think the manabase could be rearranged to support better the colors:



    The caverns will often grant the white for your Thalias so there will be no need to ping yourself with Forge or spend the Energy for white that often, so you can outright save it for the monkeys should you need them, or just grab the lifelink value of your vehicle. You're playing Caverns as well so you might already be lucky and have +3 white/red sources there. I'm also not sure you need Wastes at all, as Blood Moon shouldn't be a card you need to worry about all that much with 6/7 Thalias and 4 TKS in the main + 2 Purges in the board.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Death and Staxes
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    To be honest, it feels like a gimped Death and Taxes. And wins through the Eldrazi like normal. That said, I can see where Chalice helps in some matchups. But at the same token, why not just jam 4 chalices in the side and play with Vial?
    I actually think the better question is "why play white at all?"

    The best lockdown decks in Modern are red, and they play 4-8 copies of Moon effects in the maindeck. This build already runs maindeck SSG and Gemstone Caverns; cutting white entirely and playing red instead is just common sense. Plus you'd get access to better removal.

    With white in the deck, the deck is just hurting itself.


    This is not entirely true. While Moon effects are powerful, they don't seem to be outright game winning in modern (maybe in some specific MUs). Like in the eternal formats, mana acceleration + Chalice + Taxing (especially Thalias) is more effective than just dropping a Moon and hoping to win from there. Playing Moon forces to play a high number of Wastes which is not ideal, Magus is way too fragile in modern to be an actual Moon if you don't have the enchantment. Also, Bolt + Chalice don't get along (the reason why path is on the board), anger is only good against Dredge and little critters decks like regular DnT or Abzan CoCo (which is a deck that's falling out of flavor), it's a lackluster card against most decks.
    If you were to play mana accel into moons, you'd be just better off running Sun and Moon.dek rather than eldrazi cards, this deck has a different identity and a different game plan and it feels a lot stronger than dropping a Blood Moon and hoping to draw a game winning card to ride off while the opp is mana screwed.

    My 2 cents on the subject.

    EDIT:

    I don't see the value on playing 4 Battlefield forges over 4 Cavern of Souls, other than casting the monkey which is as bad as not being able to cast it. I guess it could restrain you from casting Arbiter or Thalias in hand, but I believe it could be a great asset for the deck, especially in cases where you need to resolve a TKS/Smasher vs Control or set a Chalice on 2 and want to ignore it with your 2drops.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on RG Titan Scapeshift
    Quote from r497 »
    3-1 yesterday

    Got an interesting play against Eldrazi Tron.
    I had 9 lands on the field and KHE active while he had 3 GQs. I Scapeshifted saccing the 9 lands (should have counted before and only sacc'd 6 lands) and saw that I only had 4 RG Duals and 4 Basics still on the deck.
    So I got 3 Valakut, 4 duals and 2 basics and waited for him to use the first GQ.
    When he did, I respondend by using KHE to grab the 2 remaining basics triggering both Valakuts again. No matter how he targets with the remaining GQs, he wouldn't be able to stop those 6 new triggers and would go down to 2, then first GQ resolves and I have nothing to search, but that mountain's triggers would still resolve dealing 9 more to him.


    The best play there is to fetch 3 Valakuts and 5 mountains (8 lands total) leving 1 mountain on the battlefield, then searching 5 mountains and leaving 3 basic mountains in the deck. This way, you trigger 45 damage to the face, leaving 3 basics in your deck for his GQs. if he decides to GQ you, simply add 9 damage to the deal for each time he attempts to disrupt you.
    The KHE is redundant and doesn't really do anything in this scenario, it's better left aside and not complicate yourself opening windows for your opp to win.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on RG Titan Scapeshift
    Quote from wtyyy »
    Hey guys any advice on playing against Delver decks in general (and what to sideboard in)? Been having a bit of trouble with them (both Grixis and Temur variants). Essentially they resolve a Delver of Secrets or Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Young Pyromancer or Tarmogoyf really early and then sit back with countermagic denying me all my spells and I can't get going. Have managed to stabilize a few times but they had Bolt - Snap - Bolt to finish me off. Usually I can deal with insectile aberration or young pyromancer but tasigur and goyfs get too big too quickly


    Lightning Bolt and Sudden Shock are key to fight cards like Young Pyromancer, Snapcaster Mage and Delver of Secrets. Anger is good if they are trying to go wide with Pyromancer or delvers. Goyf needs to be taken care of like we do against BGx, combining Valakut triggers with Bolts, the same is true for Tasigur. Just try to ramp while they setup on serum visions finding lands and casting delver or a threat, then you sit back and start dropping lands and aim everything to their creatures until you find your window to resolve your Shift or Titan. From the board cards like Pulse of Murasa, Fog and Obstinate Baloth are great to buy time, the pulse also is good to fight against surgical extraction. If you're on the Chalice of the Void plan setting at 1 is very good.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on RG Titan Scapeshift
    Quote from Heenock »
    I really like x4 explore, card advantage is alway great. (I do not count the number of times I've done explore > draw scapeshift/titan > oops, i win)


    Explore is not CA, Ancestral Vision , Lingering Souls, and other cards all CA, Dark Confidant offers the possibility of CA, Tasigur as well. Explore is a 1x1 effect, with the possibility of giving you a tempo edge, but it doesn't provides extra cards: you spend 1 card and you get 1 card.

    Explore is also the worst ramp spell in the deck, as it requires you to have the second land in hand, whereas all others go and get one from the library. When Explore is good it's just great, but when it's bad it's just the worst. It has the potential of giving you another draw to get a win con like you say, but in mid game it kinda sucks if you draw all gas and no extra lands to keep in hand.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
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