MTG Salvation

....why would you take out your source of card advantage against tokens?

I like

consume the meek

. It cant be incredibly one sided, and answers manlands since its an instant. Its only downfall is how popular rhino and tasigur are right now.

Against merfolk their best cards are silvergill adept and Master of Waves against us. Those are the first cards you get rid of with discard. Liliana is amazing if you can keep them on one creature, but getting multiple in your hand early game can be back breaking. Engineered explosives does a ridiculous amount of work, everything costs 2 mana in their deck.

Be wary of Merrow Reejray randomly letting them dump a ton of lords all at once to alpha strike you out of no where.

Golgari Charm is too powerful a card not to run. In the mirror match it counter abrupt decay and kills bobs and lingering souls if you dont have enough cards to side in. Against splinter twin it kill all the creatures in their deck except for exarch and destroys blood moon/twin.
Its versatility to destroy the plethora of x/1s that need answering in the format and random Sb 4 cmc enchantments that can steal away games (leylines, worship, curse of death's hold, etc).

Savage summoning is kinda sweet, makes you win the goyf/rhino on goyf/rhino battles, suprise blocks op.
Probably better in a deck that has more creatures than we do though.
Imp's Mischief is sweet tech though for the mirror.

Quote from Lil_Bolas »

It would be pretty bad. I would run Noxious Revival before I even think of using Treasured Find. Heck I'll play Eternal Witness before I play Treasured Find.

Just play a better card like Mortify, Putrefy or Abzan Charm in that flex spot instead.

Alright, lets go over this really quickly.
Treasured Find trades 1 card in hand for 1 the the yard at the cost of 2 mana. Early game it can clog up the hand, or worst we just dont have anything in the yard (not likely, but it happens).
Noxious Revival trades a card in hand for a card on top of our library. This is card disadvantage, and in our deck its strictly worse.
Eternal Witness gives us a 2/1 and a card from our yard. Shes a 2-1.

If you want recursive effects, go with witness. That said, witness would really only be used in straight BG as a 1 of to fill out the deck. In reality though, i doubt she'll see play when tasigur is available.

Quote from PewPew_McPewster »

What's your opinion on Tasigur vs Hooting Mandrills? I presently have both, so I'm not asking out of budget issues but rather, is that point in toughness and opponent-dependant card advantage strictly better that the ability to trample and ease of casting, assuming I'm running noble Hierarchs.

Tas is better hands down, there is no contest whatsoever.


On the Thrun vs batterskull vs Blood Baron debate... its merely a metagame call.

Sure, Baron is bad if they have Goyf and lily out.. but thats a lot of speculation. If you have any other card in your deck you're fine. Any removal, souls, another creature, etc. Generally speaking if your opponent has 2 cards and you have 1 its bad. Glad we could point that out.

You don't have any manlands

Quote from rcwraspy »

Another point for Deathmark over Slay or Execute is its mode-ability. White or Green is a bit easier on SB space than just white or just green. Again, if you're looking at those sorts of spells in the first place. I'd argue that there just isn't room for any of them, and I have a very broad SB. 12 different cards among my 15 - list is on a prior page.

Thats fair. But thats also part of metagaming. Its why i have an entirely seperate 100 card binder of sideboard cards just for my BGx decks. I almost never play the same sideboard twice.

Wheres that sultai list at?

Quote from rcwraspy »

Quote from NZB2323 »

Someone mentioned it earlier in this thread, but slay seems like a good SB card. Good against the mirror, jund, little kid abzan, infect, mono green stompy, Amulet bloom, midrange naya, zoo, ect.

I know Slay cantrips, but if you're going for an effect like this I'd rather play Deathmark.

EDIT: I didn't see the further comments about this before I posted. The benefits of conserving mana and playing multiple spells a turn is better, in my opinion, than getting a cantrip out of it.

The midrange matchups hinge on card advantage, not on if you can play 2 spells in 1 turn.


Abzan is very top heavy. The problem is that rhino is best in multiples, but the right number may only be 1-3ish. If you look at jund the cmc is very low to the ground and efficient. Moreover, with the current metagame we're forced to run multiple copies of path to exile... and the card is just horrible in the deck.

Quote from Lil_Bolas »

Quote from NZB2323 »

Someone mentioned it earlier in this thread, but slay seems like a good SB card. Good against the mirror, jund, little kid abzan, infect, mono green stompy, Amulet bloom, midrange naya, zoo, ect.

For three mana though? Deathmark is much better.

Its strictly a grindy midrange mirror card. You'd side it in against abzan and big zoo. You could also run execute if youre sure to see a lot of celestial colonnades and resto angels. The card is meant to be a way to generate 2 for 1s, not strictly as an efficient answer. Think best top deck abzan.


Play golgari charm. Its easily the card i SB in the most.

Round 1: Affinity

Game 1: I'm on the play with a pretty good hand, but no discard. He drops his hand on the field and I can't slow him down fast enough.
-4 Bob +3 Stony Silence -1 Liliana +2 Golgari Charm

I would have taken out IoK and Thoughtseize for bow and rain of tears. killing their lands isnt bad, its a lot better when you have fulminator mage though. Sure, stony silence turns off bow, but bow and silence do so much work in the matchup that its more important to just draw one than it is if they have disynergy. For instance, the second and third copy of stony silence dont do anything if you draw the first, but it doesnt stop you from playing them.

Round 3: Junk

Game 1: Super grindy as usual. He outgrinds me with three siege rhinos.
-3 Inquisition +1 Blood Baron +1 Sigarda +1 Bow of Nylea

I'd take out thoughtseize here too. Bow of Nylea and Golgari Charm arent bad in the mirror match and they arent horrible topdecks.
Bow makes your creatures kill theirs (either in deathtouch attacking or putting counters on to block) it also, albeit slowly, kills lingering souls. Golgari Charm is great at catching them over extending with souls. More importantly it kills opposing bobs and regenerates your creatures through abrupt decay or an alpha strike.

Round 4: Splinter Twin

Game 1: I keep and two lander and never draw another land. I inquisition and see double combo pieces and concede.
-3 Lingering Souls +2 Golgari Charm +1 Thoughtseize

Game 2: I wreck his hand and crash in with the Rhinos.

Unless they run a ton of electrolyze, lingering souls is actually good in this matchup. They usually side out their combo (at the very least, 2-3 copies) against us. Aside from Exarch and the batterskull/wurmcoil they may side in, all their creatures are x/2s. Pulse isnt a terrible card to cut, you usually want instant speed removal against them anyways. You could also side out a confidant, as you dont want multiples cuz of bolt/snap/bolt.

in obliterator rock play 4 treetop village 1 forest and 4 twilight mire.
check out the list in the old primer

Im still not sold on blood baron. I want him to be good, but it just makes so much more sense to either run Sigarda that only dies to wraths or to run a 6 drop that just wins you the game if not answered (wurmcoil engine, grave titan, etc)


I also dont think Obstinate Baloth is where you want to be right now. Sure, getting him in for free is really good, but more than 1/2 the time the matchups you want him in he's smaller than all the goyfs, rhinos, scoozes, and/or tasigurs.
The best cards (sideboard) in the mirror match right now are probably Zealous Persecution, Batterskull and Sigarda. Thrun gets honorable mention, because while he doesnt match up well against everything he is still impossible to get rid of with his regen.

The other noticeable cards in most of the winning Junk decks are Fulminator Mage and Leyline of Sanctity. Fulminator seems low impact but the reality is that while he is not amazing in most matchups he at the very least replaces your worst cards in your deck. Killing Celestial Colonnade, Desolate Lighthouse, Gavony Township, Urza's Tower, Tec Edge on your t3, (b)inkmoth Nexus, Simic Growth Chamber can be HUGE. There is literally a land in each tier 1 deck that fulminator mage can give you the edge against. Well, save burn, but you'd be surprised how easy it is to take away their white mana is sometimes.... not that I'd try mana denial against burn.

I want to like courser, he just is too much 'do nothing' when you need to be fast. The format is very fast right now. The top decks are Junk and decks that win by turn 4. It can make things really awkward when you drop courser and they just go over your head. It brings you to the point where you'd be fine to draw 1 courser, but more and you feel like if you drew any other card in your deck you'd be fine. This is where you end up seeing the singleton batterskull in so many decklists.

Against little kid abzan I'd take out IoK and Thoughtseize first. After that Id take out lilies. So thats 6-7 cards plus 3-4 more? 11 Cards is a lot to side in. Basically I'd bring in any removal and creatures. I dont mind having liliana post board as long as shes a 2of. If theres a potential to get multiples stuck in my hand its possibly GG. If you can bide your time and drop Liliana once both of you are in top deck mode you're in a fine place. Work out the odds and +1 liliana wisely. The amount of effort theyre putting into killing lily after you've played her and gotten her initial -2 should tell you whats in their hand. Sure, they might be bluffing you, but you have the same potential. There is nothing wrong with using her as an edict then letting her sit there. Hell, go ahead and pass turn then facepalm and act like you 'forgot' to +1 her. The truth is if you keep her on the board and are able to +1 her she'll still win you the game. The other appropriate time to +1 liliana is when you have maelstrom pulse in hand and were already planning on killing smiter/wiltleaf.
TL;DR side in all your removal and creatures for IoK, TS, and LotV- in that order- and +1 lily cautiously.

you have 9 lands that dont tap for black and only singletons of twilight mire and urborg.
you will only be able to cast obliterator about a 3rd of your games.
oblit only augments goyf, he cant be run instead of. please dont post budget lists in this thread, it'll just get you a warning from a mod.

Im pretty sure there is a budget obliterator thread runnign around somewhere, if you repost your list there id be happy to help you with it.



I like courser, but in the current metagame i'd probably rather run 4 lingering souls first and maybe an extra maelstrom pulse.
Courser is a his best alongside anger of the gods and chandra. He's great in the grindy matchups, but really mediocre against affinity, infect, and combo decks.

GQ is bad, i wrote a long response about it, my computer crashed, then i saw that HZecurity wrote almost word for word what I wrote.

Burn is a bad matchup, but thats not to say we still cant have broken hands against them. Curving out with iok>goyf>lily>rhino wins games.
Timely is better than Feed the clan. There is no reason to sandbag creatures, if we have more creatures out against them we just dont care. However, often times we'll spend the first 2-3 turns casting removal and discard, so by the time we get to cast timely we dont have any creatures.
Feed the Clan is arguably a better card for the late game, where sneaking in an instant at the right time is important.

Leyline doesnt need to be ran as a 4of to be effective. Look at your sideboard cards against burn as a whole unit, and that you need 1 of those cards in your opening hand and then you need to draw into another in 4-5 turns. It precisely what we need to have happen against burn. Having any of our sideboard cards is fine. However, running 4 Leylines will give you awkward hands where you start with one and then draw into another when you really need lifegain because they drew a creature heavy hand.
Its like when legacy dredge first came out and people started running 2 tormods 2 leyline of the void 2 faerie macabre to dodge pithing needle and cabal therapy. Diversifying your sideboard makes your opponents job to sideboard against you very difficult. Moreover; most people will see leyline, and assume youre running 3-4 of them and then side in 4 destructive revelry/wear//tear. Chances are you wont even see it again g3 (or you sided it out).