After playing 3 more games with the deck, it's completely broken to the point where I might have to take out the Academy Rector/Omniscience combo. I've won every game I've played with it to this point. Always end up with ridiculous board states like this, including the 132 Vampire Knight tokens you can't see LOL.
I think the biggest strike against them (other than coming into play tapped) is that the require a lot of mana to make work. How often will you want to leave up 6 lands for Colonnade or 4 for Quagmire or Wildwood to protect one walker rather than casting another walker?
THIS! Besides, if the deck is running the way it should, hopefully you're casting and ultimating these walkers fairly quickly.
I agree with land ramp vs mana rocks. I definitely wouldn't play both and I prefer playing land ramp as I think it is better long game (a signet gets 1 extra mana faster, but a blinked Wood Elves gets more mana in thelong game). I think it is just a judgment call on how "explosive" one wants their deck to be.
@Minarii It depends on your land base. Grabbing Shocks and the Zendikar Battlelands can still be relevant for color fixing if using Wood Elves. If nothing else, it still gets you a Forest.
Unfortunately, my mana base is SO competitive, I don't think I run enough basics to go the "Wood Elves" route.
I think the biggest strike against them (other than coming into play tapped) is that the require a lot of mana to make work. How often will you want to leave up 6 lands for Colonnade or 4 for Quagmire or Wildwood to protect one walker rather than casting another walker?
THIS! Besides, if the deck is running the way it should, hopefully you're casting and ultimating these walkers fairly quickly.
Thanks for the write up, I am considering following your build here as the layout for my first superfriends deck.
Do you have the green creature suite solely for blink purposes with Kaya and Venser? When I build this deck, I will not have the OG duals and thus, would you advise cutting down on the "forest grab" elves and add BOP or other similar creatures?
I found that running signets and mana rocks eliminated the need for so many (or in my case, any) ramp creatures. Eternal Witness is a great way to bring back stuff, especially when you can blink it -- same with something like Sun Titan. Their sole purpose is to abuse their ETB effects.
Since you won't have OG duals, will you be running fetches and shocks? I would run whatever fetchable tango lands you can and maybe the check lands?
I played this deck last night and had a ridiculous game with it. I started off with 2 lands, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Wood Elves, Doubling Season, Call the Gatewatch and Ajani, Mentor of Heroes. I drew into a third land and Yavimaya Granger. I ended up being able to cast Doubling Season on turn 4 with 6 lands in play (I used my ramp before this) and then next turn I drew my 7th land and cast Call the Gatewatch for Tamiyo, Field Researcher. I ultimated her right away. After that my Doubling Season was destroyed, but it was too late. I drew into a bunch of stuff and it was just too much for my opponents.
At one point I tutored for Doubling Season again with Liliana Vess but I really should have gone for Deepglow Skate. Even with the way the game was going, this is one play I think I should have done differently based on what I had on the battlefield at the time.
That's awesome. I have a flex spot or two in the planeswalker package. I think I might dump Narset -- how's Liliana Vess been?
Ran 3 games last night with the new list and absolutely love how the deck plays. Couple random notes.. Deepglow Skate is an absolute all-star. It's completely broken if you can blink it at least once with something like Venser. Also, Teferi's emblem allowing you to activate loyalty on each turn is completely disgusting. Won a game by casting Karn, with that emblem up, +3'ing on each turn x2 (with Rings out), then -14'ing to restart the game. Dumb.... Love it!
I do have vampiric and demonic tutor, but I didn't want to play them as I intentionally nerfed the deck a little. On the other side I don't see how a list with Damnation and Jace, the mind sculptor could be budget lol.
That's why I was confused. It didnt' seem like a budget deck but yet you were missing some fairly obvious inclusions.
Also, youre running Atraxa and tutors, yet no Demonic or Vamp? Budget list? Also, instead of the Wastes, might make sense to run another on-color pain land?
That seems like a lot of land with 8 mana rocks. I could realistically see cutting at least 1 more land, if not 2.
Azusa and Burgeoning are at their best when you can keep your hand full, but I don't think Land Tax is the way to do it. With the amount of land ramp you have, you should have more lands than your opponents already. Land Tax can be a "backup" in case that doesn't pan out, but eventually it will become useless.
I personally like the idea of using Azusa and Burgeoning with Twister effects. So, I would think adding Timetwister (might be out of budget, but still good), Windfall, and even Day's Undoing could help hit land drops easier with those cards. Day's Undoing doesn't work as well with Azusa, but it does work with Burgeoning.
Then, adding in Time Spiral would be good too. These cards let you refill your hand early (and a turn 1 Twister off Mana Crypt could totally mess up your opponents' hands they kept) and lets you get more Walkers late game.
I would say either cut down on 3 mana rocks or 2 lands (or some combination) and then cut Land Tax. If you add in the previously mentioned Twister effects, Burgeoning and Azusa are good. If you don't, I would cut Burgeoning and maybe look at freeing up the slot Azusa takes up too.
For straight up cuts, here is what I can see:
Contagion Engine - Expensive and you would much rather be casting planeswalkers at this point. I think it is just too high on the curve, but this is a preference call. If you feel the double proliferate is good at that cost then I agree it fits the overall plan. Considering you have a couple of ways of just getting to Doubling Season Contagion Engine seems like overkill.
Brainstorm - I have never been fond of Brainstorm outside of dedicated combo/control lists. The one shot effect means you really need something good to make that card worthwhile. And, with walkers and the Twisters I mentioned above, you shouldn't have a problem just drawing cards. You already run Consecrated Sphinx as well which should get you way more cards than Brainstorm.
Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile - Spot removal is fine, but in a list like this, Wraths are the way to go. Why get rid of one creature when you can get rid of them all? Maybe toss in Wrath of God as a replacement to these?
A couple land ramp creatures and mana rocks - You have a lot here and I actually like to see land ramp (I am not a an of mana rocks due to their vulnerability), but again, I think you would be better served to either go the land ramp plan or the mana rock plan. Trying to do both (in my opinion) is overkill. You could even just cut down on a couple of each.
35 lands seems low but I have a lot more rocks than I'm used to running. With that being said, do I have enough lands to make Azusa, Burgeoning, and even stuff like Oracle/Courser effective? I took out Kozilek because we don't generally play against any mill decks in my meta, so not worried about that. Can't afford a Timetwister at this point so I have Day's Undoing in it's place. I sacrificed the mass recursion for the more creature based, since I have Time Spiral and Day's Undoing.
Taking my Angus list and moving towards Atraxa. The card is too good to not use.. I'm back at an impass making cuts. I need to figure out what direction I'm going. I like the proliferate plan, for sure. I'm wondering if the need for the land ramp creatures with the other mana ramp I'd prefer with filter and mana rocks/signets. Thoughts? At this point, I need like 15 cuts and it's hard haha. The mana base gets crowded with 4C if you include all the shocks, duals, and fetches. With all the rocks, do I even need Land Tax and Burgeoning?
Also, been thinking of adding Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon as another way to close out the game.
Unfortunately, my mana base is SO competitive, I don't think I run enough basics to go the "Wood Elves" route.
THIS! Besides, if the deck is running the way it should, hopefully you're casting and ultimating these walkers fairly quickly.
I found that running signets and mana rocks eliminated the need for so many (or in my case, any) ramp creatures. Eternal Witness is a great way to bring back stuff, especially when you can blink it -- same with something like Sun Titan. Their sole purpose is to abuse their ETB effects.
Since you won't have OG duals, will you be running fetches and shocks? I would run whatever fetchable tango lands you can and maybe the check lands?
That's awesome. I have a flex spot or two in the planeswalker package. I think I might dump Narset -- how's Liliana Vess been?
That's why I was confused. It didnt' seem like a budget deck but yet you were missing some fairly obvious inclusions.
1x Academy Rector
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Deepglow Skate
1x Emeria Shepherd
1x Eternal Witness
1x Greenwarden of Murasa
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Sun Titan
Planeswalker (23)
1x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1x Ajani Steadfast
1x Dovin Baan
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Jace Beleren
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1x Karn Liberated
1x Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1x Narset Transcendent
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1x Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1x Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Venser, the Sojourner
1x Vraska the Unseen
1x Azorius Signet
1x Contagion Engine
1x Golgari Signet
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mana Crypt
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Selesnya Signet
1x Simic Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Strionic Resonator
1x The Chain Veil
Instant (3)
1x Dig Through Time
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (9)
1x Akroma's Vengeance
1x Call the Gatewatch
1x Day's Undoing
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Deploy the Gatewatch
1x Rout
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Time Spiral
1x Wrath of God
Enchantment (7)
1x Burgeoning
1x Doubling Season
1x Oath of Gideon
1x Oath of Jace
1x Oath of Nissa
1x Omniscience
1x Sylvan Library
Land (35)
1x Bayou
1x Breeding Pool
1x Command Tower
1x Fetid Heath
1x Flooded Grove
1x Flooded Strand
3x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mystic Gate
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Temple Garden
1x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Twilight Mire
1x Underground Sea
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
35 lands seems low but I have a lot more rocks than I'm used to running. With that being said, do I have enough lands to make Azusa, Burgeoning, and even stuff like Oracle/Courser effective? I took out Kozilek because we don't generally play against any mill decks in my meta, so not worried about that. Can't afford a Timetwister at this point so I have Day's Undoing in it's place. I sacrificed the mass recursion for the more creature based, since I have Time Spiral and Day's Undoing.
1x Academy Rector
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Deepglow Skate
1x Emeria Shepherd
1x Eternal Witness
1x Greenwarden of Murasa
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Sun Titan
Planeswalker (23)
1x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1x Ajani Steadfast
1x Dovin Baan
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Jace Beleren
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1x Karn Liberated
1x Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1x Narset Transcendent
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1x Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1x Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Venser, the Sojourner
1x Vraska the Unseen
1x Azorius Signet
1x Contagion Engine
1x Golgari Signet
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mana Crypt
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Selesnya Signet
1x Simic Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Strionic Resonator
1x The Chain Veil
Instant (3)
1x Dig Through Time
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (9)
1x Akroma's Vengeance
1x Call the Gatewatch
1x Day's Undoing
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Deploy the Gatewatch
1x Rout
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Time Spiral
1x Wrath of God
Enchantment (7)
1x Burgeoning
1x Doubling Season
1x Oath of Gideon
1x Oath of Jace
1x Oath of Nissa
1x Omniscience
1x Sylvan Library
Land (35)
1x Bayou
1x Breeding Pool
1x Command Tower
1x Fetid Heath
1x Flooded Grove
1x Flooded Strand
3x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mystic Gate
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Temple Garden
1x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Twilight Mire
1x Underground Sea
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Creature (18)
1 Academy Rector
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Burnished Hart
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Dawntreader Elk
1 Deepglow Skate
1 Emeria Shepherd
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sun Titan
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Granger
Planeswalker (25)
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Dovin Baan
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Karn Liberated
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Sorin Markov
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Azorius Signet
1 Contagion Engine
1 Dimir Signet
1 Golgari Signet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 The Chain Veil
Instant (7)
1 Brainstorm
1 Dig Through Time
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (10)
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Call the Gatewatch
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Deploy the Gatewatch
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Regrowth
1 Rout
1 Seasons Past
1 Supreme Verdict
Enchantment (8)
1 Burgeoning
1 Doubling Season
1 Land Tax
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Oath of Jace
1 Oath of Nissa
1 Omniscience
1 Sylvan Library
1 Bayou
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flooded Grove
1 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mystic Gate
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Twilight Mire
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion