I'm obviously VERY hard at here at the office haha. I love the discussion and I think I'm getting to a solid place. The deck was fun but I think this will give it more legs.
I left Linvala, Keeper of Silence. Seems like almost everyone plays some sort of creature combo in my meta so this helps. With all the equipment, I like Stoneforge Mystic as another tutor plus a way to cheat equipment in, if needed.
I think the only addition I might want to have is Defense Grid but I'm not quite sold on it yet. It'd be good as a late game play once I bring Kaalia out, I think.
I had been using Deckstats but TappedOut is way more polished. I like it.
As for my list, I like where you're coming from and can see some immediate changes.
-Deathrender (I like the versatility of Kolaghan's Command, plus the +2/+2 doesnt really mean much. Kaalia isn't winning on Commander damage).
-Grand Abolisher (Mainly play vs Combo decks so control isn't an issue.)
-Thalia, Heretic Cathar (I had a foil and it was a cute effect, but this spot is valuable)
-Aurelia, the Warleader (How often is Aurelia going to actually be 'attacking' vs being put on the board by Kaalia. Another valuable spot)
-Waves of Aggression
-Sheoldred, Whispering One (Love this guy but I like synergy better. Bringing back Reya)
-Temple of Silence
-Temple of Triumph
I was running Command Beacon before and may try to find a spot for it. I was thinking of going up to 37 lands but I'm unsure what to cut. I'm looking for 2 spots, for Command Beacon and Crucible of Worlds.
What are some good stax elements to include? I've been running what seems a hybrid list between 1v1 and multiplayer. I know this is for more traditional but the majority of games we end up playing end up being MP.... I have Ghostly Prison and Defense Grid. Anything else worthy of including for some early game protection to try to get to that middle to end game? I was thinking Winter Orb and Aura of Silence...
Just noticed the link below has an outdated deck list. I need to update that but it gives a general idea of what I'm running. I know off the bat, I'm not running all the swords or Wear/Tear, but have more card draw (Painful Truths and Read the Bones).
Winter orb makes people hate you. It's not much of protection in a political sense. I like no mercy because it strictly punishes people for swinging at you. If you have the budget, maze of ith would be great too.. You might think master warcraft, batwing brume and deflecting palm are bad choices due to the 1-time use nature of it, but combined with ghostly prison and no mercy, helps discourage people from going for you. If your strategy is to cast kaalia late and go for the win (which I think is a good idea), then those cards I mentioned are really helpful in doing the job..
About STAX, I think queen marchesa can pull that off a bit better.. Also, if you have a reanimator thing going on and you also wanna add defensive spells on top of that, I think throwing in stax will dilute the quality of your strategies a bit. If you ask me, since the point of the deck is not a turn 3 kaalia, you can just drop all your mana rocks, bump your land count to 38-39, then just add more sweepers and attack deterrents.
I took a peek at your list, and overall I think you need to figure out your main strategy and stick to it, rather than having a few cards here and there to have an answer to all situations.. I have some suggestions:
1.) You play phyrexian reclamationobzedat's aid, reanimate, sheoldred and angelic renewal but you don't have unburial rites, animate dead, cauldron of souls, buried alive or entomb. I think if you're going to go reanimator you might as well complete the package for consistency. But I've said many times that my stand on reanimator is that other decks can do it better, and I'd rather just cut all the reanimator elements and replace them with a pillow fort package, stall till the endgame then unleash heavnely inferno on the weakened opponents.
2.) I think waves of aggression can go. In general extra combat steps aren't worth it unless you consistenly have 2 or more big creatures in hand.. This makes Aurelia kinda bad too. If I were to play an extra combat type of spell with the purpose of bringing down extra creatures, it would be seize the day. It's super underrated.
3.) I'm not sure how relevant playing too many swords is to the deck. As far as equipment goes, champion's helm, whispersilk cloak and swiftfoot boots makes a bit more sense. You can keep light and shadow for the reanimation I guess..
5.) You might want to consider bringing your big creature count down.. Or if you're determined to play that many, throw in quicksilver amulet to assist kaalia in bringing them out, or sneak attack for crazy synergy with phyrexian reclamation.
6.) If legion's initiative is there mostly to dodge sweepers, then maybe you should take it out because you have reanimator elements going on to bring them back anyway.
These are just suggestions and I've never played your deck so take them with a grain of salt
I definitely appreciate the comments. Let me update that deck list because it's actually a bit different now. Reading through it, it's not too representative to what I'm playing now. Regardless of the actual cards, I get what you're saying and can definitely make some changes taking that into account.
What are some good stax elements to include? I've been running what seems a hybrid list between 1v1 and multiplayer. I know this is for more traditional but the majority of games we end up playing end up being MP.... I have Ghostly Prison and Defense Grid. Anything else worthy of including for some early game protection to try to get to that middle to end game? I was thinking Winter Orb and Aura of Silence...
Just noticed the link below has an outdated deck list. I need to update that but it gives a general idea of what I'm running. I know off the bat, I'm not running all the swords or Wear/Tear, but have more card draw (Painful Truths and Read the Bones).
Winter orb makes people hate you. It's not much of protection in a political sense. I like no mercy because it strictly punishes people for swinging at you. If you have the budget, maze of ith would be great too.. You might think master warcraft, batwing brume and deflecting palm are bad choices due to the 1-time use nature of it, but combined with ghostly prison and no mercy, helps discourage people from going for you. If your strategy is to cast kaalia late and go for the win (which I think is a good idea), then those cards I mentioned are really helpful in doing the job..
About STAX, I think queen marchesa can pull that off a bit better.. Also, if you have a reanimator thing going on and you also wanna add defensive spells on top of that, I think throwing in stax will dilute the quality of your strategies a bit. If you ask me, since the point of the deck is not a turn 3 kaalia, you can just drop all your mana rocks, bump your land count to 38-39, then just add more sweepers and attack deterrents.
I took a peek at your list, and overall I think you need to figure out your main strategy and stick to it, rather than having a few cards here and there to have an answer to all situations.. I have some suggestions:
1.) You play phyrexian reclamationobzedat's aid, reanimate, sheoldred and angelic renewal but you don't have unburial rites, animate dead, cauldron of souls, buried alive or entomb. I think if you're going to go reanimator you might as well complete the package for consistency. But I've said many times that my stand on reanimator is that other decks can do it better, and I'd rather just cut all the reanimator elements and replace them with a pillow fort package, stall till the endgame then unleash heavnely inferno on the weakened opponents.
2.) I think waves of aggression can go. In general extra combat steps aren't worth it unless you consistenly have 2 or more big creatures in hand.. This makes Aurelia kinda bad too. If I were to play an extra combat type of spell with the purpose of bringing down extra creatures, it would be seize the day. It's super underrated.
3.) I'm not sure how relevant playing too many swords is to the deck. As far as equipment goes, champion's helm, whispersilk cloak and swiftfoot boots makes a bit more sense. You can keep light and shadow for the reanimation I guess..
5.) You might want to consider bringing your big creature count down.. Or if you're determined to play that many, throw in quicksilver amulet to assist kaalia in bringing them out, or sneak attack for crazy synergy with phyrexian reclamation.
6.) If legion's initiative is there mostly to dodge sweepers, then maybe you should take it out because you have reanimator elements going on to bring them back anyway.
These are just suggestions and I've never played your deck so take them with a grain of salt
What are some good stax elements to include? I've been running what seems a hybrid list between 1v1 and multiplayer. I know this is for more traditional but the majority of games we end up playing end up being MP.... I have Ghostly Prison and Defense Grid. Anything else worthy of including for some early game protection to try to get to that middle to end game? I was thinking Winter Orb and Aura of Silence...
Just noticed the link below has an outdated deck list. I need to update that but it gives a general idea of what I'm running. I know off the bat, I'm not running all the swords or Wear/Tear, but have more card draw (Painful Truths and Read the Bones).
Winter orb makes people hate you. It's not much of protection in a political sense. I like no mercy because it strictly punishes people for swinging at you. If you have the budget, maze of ith would be great too.. You might think master warcraft, batwing brume and deflecting palm are bad choices due to the 1-time use nature of it, but combined with ghostly prison and no mercy, helps discourage people from going for you. If your strategy is to cast kaalia late and go for the win (which I think is a good idea), then those cards I mentioned are really helpful in doing the job..
About STAX, I think queen marchesa can pull that off a bit better.. Also, if you have a reanimator thing going on and you also wanna add defensive spells on top of that, I think throwing in stax will dilute the quality of your strategies a bit. If you ask me, since the point of the deck is not a turn 3 kaalia, you can just drop all your mana rocks, bump your land count to 38-39, then just add more sweepers and attack deterrents.
I took a peek at your list, and overall I think you need to figure out your main strategy and stick to it, rather than having a few cards here and there to have an answer to all situations.. I have some suggestions:
1.) You play phyrexian reclamationobzedat's aid, reanimate, sheoldred and angelic renewal but you don't have unburial rites, animate dead, cauldron of souls, buried alive or entomb. I think if you're going to go reanimator you might as well complete the package for consistency. But I've said many times that my stand on reanimator is that other decks can do it better, and I'd rather just cut all the reanimator elements and replace them with a pillow fort package, stall till the endgame then unleash heavnely inferno on the weakened opponents.
2.) I think waves of aggression can go. In general extra combat steps aren't worth it unless you consistenly have 2 or more big creatures in hand.. This makes Aurelia kinda bad too. If I were to play an extra combat type of spell with the purpose of bringing down extra creatures, it would be seize the day. It's super underrated.
3.) I'm not sure how relevant playing too many swords is to the deck. As far as equipment goes, champion's helm, whispersilk cloak and swiftfoot boots makes a bit more sense. You can keep light and shadow for the reanimation I guess..
5.) You might want to consider bringing your big creature count down.. Or if you're determined to play that many, throw in quicksilver amulet to assist kaalia in bringing them out, or sneak attack for crazy synergy with phyrexian reclamation.
6.) If legion's initiative is there mostly to dodge sweepers, then maybe you should take it out because you have reanimator elements going on to bring them back anyway.
These are just suggestions and I've never played your deck so take them with a grain of salt
I definitely appreciate the comments. Let me update that deck list because it's actually a bit different now. Reading through it, it's not too representative to what I'm playing now. Regardless of the actual cards, I get what you're saying and can definitely make some changes taking that into account.
What are some good stax elements to include? I've been running what seems a hybrid list between 1v1 and multiplayer. I know this is for more traditional but the majority of games we end up playing end up being MP.... I have Ghostly Prison and Defense Grid. Anything else worthy of including for some early game protection to try to get to that middle to end game? I was thinking Winter Orb and Aura of Silence...
Just noticed the link below has an outdated deck list. I need to update that but it gives a general idea of what I'm running. I know off the bat, I'm not running all the swords or Wear/Tear, but have more card draw (Painful Truths and Read the Bones).
Thoughts on Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast? Do we run enough artifacts to make it worthy of a 3-drop spot? And that foil Kaya price is ridiculous at the moment. Need one! haha
Thoughts on using Rhystic Study for some card draw? Usually a staple in any blue deck I run.
I have never been a fan of the card. It is powerful for sure, but eventually it just becomes irrelevant. I might be able to make use of it, but I prefer guaranteed draw sources rather than hoping my opponents won't pay the tax. Early game it is great but in most metas players will just pay the one in the late game or just get rid of it.
But, if it works in your meta, it is a good addition.
Good point. I've been throwing around the idea of going the 'normal' route with Sliver Queen but I'm liking the idea of sticking to 3C. I think I may go with Angus. Besides, he's such a cool card haha.
As for Narset, I think people are worried that with her, unlimited turns, land destruction and board wipes will become a thing. I play Kaalia and I'm used to being hated out even though it's not that good in multiplayer, but not sure if I want to have TWO decks like that. We'll see.
Following this, as I'm real interested in building a Superfriends deck. Was considering Narset but this is a thought, too.
I could see that build being decent. I honestly thought about cutting green at one point anyway since the green planeswalkers are kind of underwhelming. I still wanted to play Tamiyo though.
However, the main reason I kept green was due to the support cards. So, while green doesn't have the best planeswalkers of the 3 colors, I felt it has way too many support cards (Doubling Season, ramp, and recursion) to really follow through on cutting it.
I think if you end up building a Superfriends deck you will be very happy with the green addition.
Narset is just SO broken, I don't know if I want to up the "arms" race like that. All of our decks are fairly broken but that takes it to another level. I think just about every one of us has a Narset build in mind but we're too afraid to bring it out LOL.....
I actually play without arena now, and I'm not running out of gas at all, even late game. But I did do the responsible thing and replaced it with another draw spell, painful truths. Think about it, assuming you cast painful truths with max colors, it'll take 4 turns for phyrexian arena to overtake that benefit, 5 if you include the turn you cast it. I run that card with read the bones, night's whisper, skeletal scrying and dark confidant and I end up having all I really need. Problem with arena is that control decks that understand its power will never let it resolve and green decks will whack it with a reclamation sage ASAP while my one-time draw spells get to do their work almost every time.
The only reason I'm advising An4ria to play it is because he doesn't have liliana of the veil yet, and at that mana cost, Arena's the next best thing I can think of.
Phyrexian Arena is for the long game, so it's more applicable in multiplayer than in DC. Also, if you can get your mana base right and can spare the life, Necropotence is still pretty good.
Good point. My list is generally run during multiplayer games, even if it's not quite optimized for it. It's a lot of fun and I usually get hated out quick unless i can get a t4 lockout.
Removed
Added
Going to try your suggestion and go with no signets. I'm going to leave Sol Ring and Grim Monolith (for now) and see how it performs. Added Command Beacon back and an additional Plains to go to 38 lands. I think I like Dark Petition over Diabolic Tutor, the 1 extra mana has a lot of upside for Spell Mastery. Aura of Silence was a fairly even swap for Rakdos Charm and I think Rakdos the Defiler in a MP game hurts me more than helps.
I left Linvala, Keeper of Silence. Seems like almost everyone plays some sort of creature combo in my meta so this helps. With all the equipment, I like Stoneforge Mystic as another tutor plus a way to cheat equipment in, if needed.
I think the only addition I might want to have is Defense Grid but I'm not quite sold on it yet. It'd be good as a late game play once I bring Kaalia out, I think.
Thoughts?
1x Angel of Serenity
1x Angelic Arbiter
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Bruna, the Fading Light
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1x Gisela, the Broken Blade
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Karmic Guide
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Lord of the Void
1x Master of Cruelties
1x Reya Dawnbringer
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Scourge of Kher Ridges
1x Sire Of Insanity
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Utvara Hellkite
Planeswalker (2)
1x Liliana Vess
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
Artifact (10)
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Darksteel Plate
1x Expedition Map
1x Grim Monolith
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Quicksilver Amulet
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Whispersilk Cloak
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Path to Exile
1x Skeletal Scrying
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (13)
1x Armageddon
1x Damnation
1x Dark Petition
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dreadbore
1x Gamble
1x Merciless Eviction
1x Obzedat's Aid
1x Painful Truths
1x Read the Bones
1x Reanimate
1x Vindicate
1x Wrath of God
Enchantment (7)
1x Angelic Renewal
1x Aura of Silence
1x Earnest Fellowship
1x No Mercy
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
1x Sneak Attack
Land (38)
1x Arid Mesa
1x Badlands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Brass
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Command Beacon
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Fetid Heath
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Godless Shrine
1x Graven Cairns
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
2x Mountain
1x Phyrexian Tower
4x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Scrubland
1x Shadowblood Ridge
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Strip Mine
2x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Volrath's Stronghold
As for my list, I like where you're coming from and can see some immediate changes.
-Deathrender (I like the versatility of Kolaghan's Command, plus the +2/+2 doesnt really mean much. Kaalia isn't winning on Commander damage).
-Grand Abolisher (Mainly play vs Combo decks so control isn't an issue.)
-Thalia, Heretic Cathar (I had a foil and it was a cute effect, but this spot is valuable)
-Aurelia, the Warleader (How often is Aurelia going to actually be 'attacking' vs being put on the board by Kaalia. Another valuable spot)
-Waves of Aggression
-Sheoldred, Whispering One (Love this guy but I like synergy better. Bringing back Reya)
-Temple of Silence
-Temple of Triumph
+Mana Confluence
+City of Brass
+Reya Dawnbringer
+Kolaghan's Command
+Expedition Map
+Sneak Attack
+Quicksilver Amulet (I like another outlet for bringing people in)
+Nahiri, the Harbinger
I was running Command Beacon before and may try to find a spot for it. I was thinking of going up to 37 lands but I'm unsure what to cut. I'm looking for 2 spots, for Command Beacon and Crucible of Worlds.
Thoughts?
Updated list here:
1x Angel of Despair
1x Angel of Serenity
1x Angelic Arbiter
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Bruna, the Fading Light
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1x Gisela, the Broken Blade
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Karmic Guide
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Lord of the Void
1x Master of Cruelties
1x Rakdos the Defiler
1x Reya Dawnbringer
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Scourge of Kher Ridges
1x Sire Of Insanity
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Utvara Hellkite
Artifact (12)
1x Boros Signet
1x Darksteel Plate
1x Expedition Map
1x Grim Monolith
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Quicksilver Amulet
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Angelic Renewal
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
1x Sneak Attack
Instant (9)
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Cloudshift
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Path to Exile
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Skeletal Scrying
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Vampiric Tutor
Planeswalker (2)
1x Liliana Vess
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
Sorcery (12)
1x Akroma's Vengeance
1x Armageddon
1x Damnation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dreadbore
1x Merciless Eviction
1x Obzedat's Aid
1x Painful Truths
1x Read the Bones
1x Reanimate
1x Vindicate
1x Wrath of God
Land (36)
1x Arid Mesa
1x Badlands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Brass
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Fetid Heath
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Godless Shrine
1x Graven Cairns
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
2x Mountain
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Scrubland
1x Shadowblood Ridge
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Strip Mine
3x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Volrath's Stronghold
Updated deck list...
1x Angel of Despair
1x Angel of Serenity
1x Angelic Arbiter
1x Aurelia, the Warleader
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Bruna, the Fading Light
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1x Gisela, the Broken Blade
1x Grand Abolisher
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Karmic Guide
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Lord of the Void
1x Master of Cruelties
1x Rakdos the Defiler
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Scourge of Kher Ridges
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Sire Of Insanity
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Utvara Hellkite
Planeswalker (1)
1x Liliana Vess
Instant (8)
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Cloudshift
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Path to Exile
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Skeletal Scrying
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Akroma's Vengeance
1x Armageddon
1x Damnation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dreadbore
1x Merciless Eviction
1x Obzedat's Aid
1x Painful Truths
1x Read the Bones
1x Reanimate
1x Vindicate
1x Waves of Aggression
1x Wrath of God
Artifact (11)
1x Boros Signet
1x Darksteel Plate
1x Deathrender
1x Grim Monolith
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
Enchantment (3)
1x Angelic Renewal
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
Land (36)
1x Arid Mesa
1x Badlands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Command Tower
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Fetid Heath
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Godless Shrine
1x Graven Cairns
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Marsh Flats
2x Mountain
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Scrubland
1x Shadowblood Ridge
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Strip Mine
2x Swamp
1x Temple of Silence
1x Temple of Triumph
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Volrath's Stronghold
I definitely appreciate the comments. Let me update that deck list because it's actually a bit different now. Reading through it, it's not too representative to what I'm playing now. Regardless of the actual cards, I get what you're saying and can definitely make some changes taking that into account.
Just noticed the link below has an outdated deck list. I need to update that but it gives a general idea of what I'm running. I know off the bat, I'm not running all the swords or Wear/Tear, but have more card draw (Painful Truths and Read the Bones).
Good point. I've been throwing around the idea of going the 'normal' route with Sliver Queen but I'm liking the idea of sticking to 3C. I think I may go with Angus. Besides, he's such a cool card haha.
As for Narset, I think people are worried that with her, unlimited turns, land destruction and board wipes will become a thing. I play Kaalia and I'm used to being hated out even though it's not that good in multiplayer, but not sure if I want to have TWO decks like that. We'll see.
Narset is just SO broken, I don't know if I want to up the "arms" race like that. All of our decks are fairly broken but that takes it to another level. I think just about every one of us has a Narset build in mind but we're too afraid to bring it out LOL.....
Good point, only if they were printed in a modern set. Forgot about that. Got a little excited at possibilities.
Good point. My list is generally run during multiplayer games, even if it's not quite optimized for it. It's a lot of fun and I usually get hated out quick unless i can get a t4 lockout.