This was my search from 5-1-19 to 6-14-19. Surely this can't be the only reason, outside of a buyout, that Teferi's Puzzle Box spiked? Odd to me. I guess it's more speculation of what it does with Narset, Parter of Veils more than someone actually going out and getting results that show up on mtgtop8?
It was also recently shown on an SCG head to head, which was shown between matches on the SCG Con, I think. It looked real good against Phoenix in a UW shell. But again, it needs something else to stay alive and something else to win the game. So it's a combo that takes a bunch of slots that doesn't keep you alive and doesn't win the game on its own.
Do you have a deck list for a list with Teferi's Puzzle Box? I saw the card spike a bunch and I was curious as to what it is being played in specifically. (In addition to a buyout of course.)
The other option is I can probably type Teferi's Puzzle Box in mtgtop8 and see what deck lists pop up.
I'm currently shoving her into a Blue Moon list. Mostly because I haven't bought the other cards needed to build UW on MTGO. But I imagine she would do fine in a UW list with board wipes, Colonnades, Jace/Big Teferi, or some other slow grindy wincon that doesn't require keeping cards in hand. It's been OK. Some great games against jank and fair/interactive decks. Not good enough for me to play in paper in a real "top tables modern meta" though.
Edit: I should add that I have boxes in paper as well (the same 7th ed ones, because I love classic artifact frames), but testing online has told me there's no reason to fight uphill battles for a meme lock when I can just kill people with Birds and Things.
Back on Modern-relevant topics, I'm looking forward to running 2 main deck and 4-6 sideboard GY hate pieces to fight the inevitable influx of Hogaak decks that will take over the store this FNM.
Relic of Progenitus main and either Ravenous Trap or Leyline of the Void for the SB. These would be the strongest in my opinion, although I haven't tested SBed games with Hogaak Vine enough to know which are the worst in each situation.
I'm on Jeskai Phoenix with transformational sb. Looking at 2 Surgical main and some split of Trap and Surgical side. I don't like the inconsistency (and inability to cast) of Leyline until London mull goes into effect.
Back on Modern-relevant topics, I'm looking forward to running 2 main deck and 4-6 sideboard GY hate pieces to fight the inevitable influx of Hogaak decks that will take over the store this FNM.
Wow. I grabbed two Teferi's Puzzle Box like 3 days ago for like $6 a piece, and now they're something like $25-35! Now, I don't actually as good as people think. It doesn't answer the board and it's not a win condition in of itself. It's incredibly powerful, but having jammed Narset/Box in a couple shells, it's only 1/3 of the battle. You also need to be sure their board/GY doesn't kill you, and you still need something to actually win the game.
Nearly any pile of 75 cards is capable of stringing together 5 non-swiss wins, and right now people are disproportionately trying out untuned brews with new cards against each other. Not that I ever put any stock in League results anyway, but now is extra irrelevant, other than just to see what people are trying.
Do you see the prices going up even with the new wave of War of the Spark boxes coming out soon? A friend at my LGS says that there will more supply at that time, thus the prices of individual cards should come down.
It may take a dip, but it's likely going to stay $15-20 min for its life in Standard, and likely drift to $25+ once WAR is out of print. I have 3 copies I got for about $10 each and look to be jamming them in some degenerate nonsense.
Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler + Bridge is one hell of an engine.
When you throw in Altar of Dementia, you can win through Ensnaring Bridge (and at instant speed) by turbo milling your opponent. I do not foresee this deck remaining legal for long. Bridge from Below is living on borrowed times with these new cards.
They don't test past standard, that's why the ban list exists, to ban problematic cards. Don't know why people are so afraid of bans. Bans are also what mantains the format fresh and evolving. Don't be afraid of bans. I guess I'm so used to "bans" aka buffs and nerfs in other online games that it's just a natural process to me.
Because sometimes they make very strange and poorly supported decisions, and then refuse to further aknowledge them, while the cards laughably rot on the banned list. Stoneforge Mystic is a perfect example of this. Banned for the sins of a completely irrelevant and separate format, having never been in Modern, and being CONSIDERABLY less powerful than nearly everything all top decks are doing. It's embarrassing and silly that she remains banned.
Half the bans wizards makes don't even outright kill the deck, just downgrade them from tier0 to tier1-3.
They do not mind killing decks. As long as it's a deck they don't like or want. Just look at KCI.
I think T3feri is going to go up in price for the foreseeable future. It's not a control card really; it's an anti-control card. It shuts off counterspells, combat tricks, and any instant speed answers. It's being used in any deck (especially combos) that can cast him, as a shield of protection for their shenanigans. He creates awful, but effectively disruptive gameplay and is not going anywhere any time soon. Expect him to stay expensive and get worse.
"The cards where we are wrong and that ended up much more powerful than we had expected are some of the most iconic cards from the last decade—Primeval Titan; Jace, the Mind Sculptor; Stoneforge Mystic; Bitterblossom; Bridge from Below; Tarmogoyf; etc. These cards are not always the most fun to play with or against, and we have subsequently had to ban them from some formats, but the cards still exist in the same form they did when we printed them."
Prime Time - Fine in Modern.
Jace - Fine in Modern
Bitterblossom - Not Good in Modern.
Bridge - Not Good in Modern.
Goyf - Fatal Pushed in Modern.
If thats the metric, SFM comes off next announcement.
Dude, they're not unbanning SFM. UW being this good makes WOTC too hesitant to do so. SFM will be banned for several more years, they've made this very clear, whether you agree with their logic or not
The hope that there was continuity between what WOTC "should do" and what they "will do" sailed long ago. I don't think any of us are under the delusion that WOTC will do anything other than exactly what they want to do, for whatever irrational reason they make up each time they do it. SFM is just the perfect shining example of their stubborn disconnect with even the most basic understandings about Modern.
Yeah, who thought Narset would be the star of the set. No one blinked an eye when she was spoiled. Definitely missed that boat. She's being played in all major formats.
There was lots of talk about her almost immediately at my LGS. But we have a lot of various blue cantrip decks, and many who also play cantrip-heavy Legacy decks, so she seemed like a hit from the getgo. We all saw that it would hose our decks and be great in the mirrors.
I'm just happy she's an uncommon, so she is dirt cheap and widely available.
My issue with these "new toys" is that many of them are just not good enough to do anything meaningful in a format as brutally fast, efficient, and punishing as Modern.
I will again remind you and everyone else that even the best players are very inconsistent at card evaluation. If we go by the Jeff Hoogland metric of "brutally fast, efficient, and punishing" (terms I regularly hear when I've seen his stream), we would not expect to see things like Narset appearing in Ux strategies.
I'm not sure where we even disagree on this. Narset sees play exactly because it is punishing and efficient. It is a difficult-to-remove card which significantly neuters one of the top decks and considerably hurts several others that rely on cantrips or looting effects. Same goes for new Teferi, Ashiok, and Karn. They appear like they will have a greater impact on Modern than anything in Horizons and have been picked up by players almost immediately.
And after getting New Karn Wished last night, multiple times, getting narrow sideboard hate cards that locked me out of the game, I had to revel at the fact that Birthing Pod and Stoneforge Mystic are banned because they "limit design space" for creatures and equipment, but Karn and Stirrings don't apparently limit design space for colorless cards. Oh, and at least Twin won the game on the spot, instead of making you have to decide if you're going to concede, or slog out several turns of unbearable, unplayable nonsense to hope to get out of it, because your opponent has not displayed a win condition. Also, I can't wait for Force of Negation after getting T1 Chalice'd on the draw with SSG. Modern is a great format.
Maybe this is your personal opinion, but it feels like another rehash of Hoogland sound bytes. I literally heard him complaining about the Birthing Pod and SFM "design space" ban decision in the last 2-3 days in an AM stream. Same for Stirrings/Karn/colorless design space, in that same stream.
I am attacking the design space because it is often the main justification for Stoneforge, and was a justification for Pod. I honestly was not around much when Pod was legal, so I don't really know specifics or player feelings, just that "design space" was often a talking point, in addition to its dominance.
Either way, the bottom line is it's frustrating to see cards break design space, such as new Karn, when considerably less powerful things (like Stoneforge) are deemed "too good" for Modern. It was brought to my attention after several fairly obnoxious interactions with Karn in multiple decks last night. Repeatable tutor for narrow hate artifacts that can end in a total lockout seems pretty good.
Both of these swords are objectively worse than at least 3 of the existing swords (Feast/Famine, Fire/Ice, Light/Shadow). They will never see play in Modern without Stoneforge. And probably wouldn't see play with her either, in favor of Batterskull, and one or two of the others listed above.
My issue with these "new toys" is that many of them are just not good enough to do anything meaningful in a format as brutally fast, efficient, and punishing as Modern.
That said, I'm certainly buying some (especially blue Force and Charm), but I am considerably less enthusiastic for the set overall than I was before spoilers started. It feels like, of the cards that are actually for Modern (and not Commander/Draft stuff) they designed cards for a format that doesn't exist anymore. At least not at a competitive level. And Modern outside of the competitive level has been wonderfully great and diverse for nearly its entire existence. That lower part of the format didn't need help. It's always been great.
What needed help was the top. The obnoxious. The awful. The things which end games through awful play patterns, high variance, and horrendous gameplay for players on both sides. Those are the issues that should be addressed. The blue black and green Forces are a step in the right direction, but looking at everything else, it's hard not to feel disappointed.
And after getting New Karn Wished last night, multiple times, getting narrow sideboard hate cards that locked me out of the game, I had to revel at the fact that Birthing Pod and Stoneforge Mystic are banned because they "limit design space" for creatures and equipment, but Karn and Stirrings don't apparently limit design space for colorless cards. Oh, and at least Twin won the game on the spot, instead of making you have to decide if you're going to concede, or slog out several turns of unbearable, unplayable nonsense to hope to get out of it, because your opponent has not displayed a win condition. Also, I can't wait for Force of Negation after getting T1 Chalice'd on the draw with SSG. Modern is a great format.
Edit: I should add that I have boxes in paper as well (the same 7th ed ones, because I love classic artifact frames), but testing online has told me there's no reason to fight uphill battles for a meme lock when I can just kill people with Birds and Things.
It may take a dip, but it's likely going to stay $15-20 min for its life in Standard, and likely drift to $25+ once WAR is out of print. I have 3 copies I got for about $10 each and look to be jamming them in some degenerate nonsense.
When you throw in Altar of Dementia, you can win through Ensnaring Bridge (and at instant speed) by turbo milling your opponent. I do not foresee this deck remaining legal for long. Bridge from Below is living on borrowed times with these new cards.
Because sometimes they make very strange and poorly supported decisions, and then refuse to further aknowledge them, while the cards laughably rot on the banned list. Stoneforge Mystic is a perfect example of this. Banned for the sins of a completely irrelevant and separate format, having never been in Modern, and being CONSIDERABLY less powerful than nearly everything all top decks are doing. It's embarrassing and silly that she remains banned.
They do not mind killing decks. As long as it's a deck they don't like or want. Just look at KCI.
The hope that there was continuity between what WOTC "should do" and what they "will do" sailed long ago. I don't think any of us are under the delusion that WOTC will do anything other than exactly what they want to do, for whatever irrational reason they make up each time they do it. SFM is just the perfect shining example of their stubborn disconnect with even the most basic understandings about Modern.
There was lots of talk about her almost immediately at my LGS. But we have a lot of various blue cantrip decks, and many who also play cantrip-heavy Legacy decks, so she seemed like a hit from the getgo. We all saw that it would hose our decks and be great in the mirrors.
I'm just happy she's an uncommon, so she is dirt cheap and widely available.
I'm not sure where we even disagree on this. Narset sees play exactly because it is punishing and efficient. It is a difficult-to-remove card which significantly neuters one of the top decks and considerably hurts several others that rely on cantrips or looting effects. Same goes for new Teferi, Ashiok, and Karn. They appear like they will have a greater impact on Modern than anything in Horizons and have been picked up by players almost immediately.
I am attacking the design space because it is often the main justification for Stoneforge, and was a justification for Pod. I honestly was not around much when Pod was legal, so I don't really know specifics or player feelings, just that "design space" was often a talking point, in addition to its dominance.
Either way, the bottom line is it's frustrating to see cards break design space, such as new Karn, when considerably less powerful things (like Stoneforge) are deemed "too good" for Modern. It was brought to my attention after several fairly obnoxious interactions with Karn in multiple decks last night. Repeatable tutor for narrow hate artifacts that can end in a total lockout seems pretty good.
That said, I'm certainly buying some (especially blue Force and Charm), but I am considerably less enthusiastic for the set overall than I was before spoilers started. It feels like, of the cards that are actually for Modern (and not Commander/Draft stuff) they designed cards for a format that doesn't exist anymore. At least not at a competitive level. And Modern outside of the competitive level has been wonderfully great and diverse for nearly its entire existence. That lower part of the format didn't need help. It's always been great.
What needed help was the top. The obnoxious. The awful. The things which end games through awful play patterns, high variance, and horrendous gameplay for players on both sides. Those are the issues that should be addressed. The blue black and green Forces are a step in the right direction, but looking at everything else, it's hard not to feel disappointed.
And after getting New Karn Wished last night, multiple times, getting narrow sideboard hate cards that locked me out of the game, I had to revel at the fact that Birthing Pod and Stoneforge Mystic are banned because they "limit design space" for creatures and equipment, but Karn and Stirrings don't apparently limit design space for colorless cards. Oh, and at least Twin won the game on the spot, instead of making you have to decide if you're going to concede, or slog out several turns of unbearable, unplayable nonsense to hope to get out of it, because your opponent has not displayed a win condition. Also, I can't wait for Force of Negation after getting T1 Chalice'd on the draw with SSG. Modern is a great format.