Hey all. It has been a very long time for me, but I am picking this up again. I have been looking for a simple solution for what looks like the deck's Nemesis. There is a paltry number of cards that interact with it in any way. Ratchet Bomb and Powder Keg are so bad at taking it out. Crackdown and Meekstone are a bit better, but probably awful as sideboard cards. Is Wrath of God such a bad option? I mean, how big a deal is this card?
It has been ages since I visited this site. I went to a local tournament last night. For the first time ever people were aware of the DnT deck I was playing, which btw, is apparently way out of date. The deck seems to have improved a lot recently. I can hardly believe Finn is still tweaking it. A quick look at the updated Source dtb section reveals that this deck is the 23 winningest deck in the format in October. Are there a lot more people playing it now?
So, I don't post a lot anymore, but Finn you asked me to test your new deck today, as you do on occasion.
my impressions:
1. I tested against Zoo first. The deck I played against had Teeg in the main. The one game he got him out first, I simply had no way to deal with it and I lost. The deck definitely needs a way to handle pesky permanents. I also let Zoo sb (I had none) and I lost another one to a well-timed Krosan Grip. I lost one more when I had three Thoughtseizes and no gas. I took his critters but he burned me out. But I won the other 7 games since Zoo just did not have much of a way to deal with this deck. It's too linear.
2. Next I tested against TES. My friend Juan is pretty good with it, and we had some pretty interesting games. In the end, I had more discard than he did and I won most of them. Even his SB was not all that useful since he runs Burning Wish. It was something like 8-5 or 8-4. Force of Will would improve this matchup, but I am not complaining.
3. Next up was Goblins. This was pretty easy, as they had only Wasteland to hurt us. I just kept the fetchies unfetched until I needed them. I won most of these as well.
4. Finally I have Merfolk built. I mostly lost these if they had a Vial on turn one because of the clock. But I still won 5-4 even with him sideboarding.
Rignes, the deck is pretty tight. There is not a lot of room for individual card preferences. And Tidal Warrior just does not do a lot, even for a 1-mana card.
You really should take a look at the Death and Taxes thread. It is not quite White Weenie, but most people would tell you that it is as close as you can come in Legacy, with its tricks and disruption being necessary.
Tivadar is insane against Goblins. If you have never used it, I suggest you try it out a few times to see what this one card can do to that poor deck. By itself it is a beating. If you manage to get Karakas or Flickerwisp with it, it is kinda funny. Add in Aether Vial, and you can't help but laugh at how unfair it is to them.
Not only do I think D+T would be a good choice, I think it might be the best choice, even given access to every deck in the format. You have listed some of the deck's best matchups there.
Since I stopped playing this deck, I have tried out many other ones, and losing to D+T. I am about ready to dig out my Karakases again.
@Patrunkenphat7: it used to be more popular. And I remember that it placed well in a few tournaments.
The M10 rules change gave the deck some pretty bad press, as one of its better tricks had been the block, stack damage, unsummon trick with Karakas or Stonecloaker. Finn even told me that it might be to much to overcome. But the guys have made some decent headway in transforming the focus of the tricks away from that sort of thing since that time. the addition of Stoneforge Mystic for example is pretty big. I have not read a tournament report yet since that card came out.
Menendian took his data from the Starcitygames tournaments. This means that the results show only the American metagame - and only the metagame at these tournaments. Legacy is bigger than 50 decks.
In my first serious testing in a long time, here is what I have to report.
It's mostly good, actually. I used Finn's proposed list from a few pages back with some minor changes to the board.
6-1 battling monoMerfolk. I brutalized Merfolk. the one match I lost, I let my opponent get a new seven after he mulliganed to 5 w/out a land in game 3. They do actually have solutions for Aether Vial, but I always seemed to have more difficult permanents than he could handle. His bounce just was not enough in game 1. Standstill sat in his hand most of the time, and none of his sb stuff was really suited for this deck. Oblivion Ring went unopposed.
3-4 battling Zoo. I thought it would go better, but they have buttloads of removal, and that made the difference. and Pridemages are a pain. Grunts were good, and I kept him off a color for awhile in some games. But the games that I won were all due to my airforce. A Serra Avenger with any of the equipment is very strong in this one. But most of time she just ate bolts.
3-1 battling Reanimator. Their favorite new toy, Iona, is useless if you have Karakas. Empyrial Archangel is good, but they really don't have an answer for a flyer with a weapon.
While i enjoyed the article, i believe it talked way too much about vintage, even posting a vintage legal decklist. If i want to read a legacy article, i want it to be about that format, and to not confuse me with extra unnecessary crap about a format i care nothing about.
The Deck, as posted uses 3 Strip Mines. It is not legal in any format.
BTW, any monocolored deck has an excellent answer to Tabernacle: basic lands. That card is wayyyy overvalued.
Well, you have 27 lands. That seems really high to me. I play 24, and I am occasionally overrun with land. I noticed no Terravores. I usually play 3 of them and no Seismic Assaults at all. And I usually keep some more Dev Dreams in the sb so that I can bring them in g2 against tribal stuff.
Interesting that I don't see any lists with Figure of Destiny. That guy (in my 22 land build) was so often a killer late topdeck that I can't imagine playing without it.
What do you players think of Steppe Lynx? If you play with fetchlands it can easily be a 2nd turn attacker 4/5. On would think that even Zoo would want to use him.
my impressions:
1. I tested against Zoo first. The deck I played against had Teeg in the main. The one game he got him out first, I simply had no way to deal with it and I lost. The deck definitely needs a way to handle pesky permanents. I also let Zoo sb (I had none) and I lost another one to a well-timed Krosan Grip. I lost one more when I had three Thoughtseizes and no gas. I took his critters but he burned me out. But I won the other 7 games since Zoo just did not have much of a way to deal with this deck. It's too linear.
2. Next I tested against TES. My friend Juan is pretty good with it, and we had some pretty interesting games. In the end, I had more discard than he did and I won most of them. Even his SB was not all that useful since he runs Burning Wish. It was something like 8-5 or 8-4. Force of Will would improve this matchup, but I am not complaining.
3. Next up was Goblins. This was pretty easy, as they had only Wasteland to hurt us. I just kept the fetchies unfetched until I needed them. I won most of these as well.
4. Finally I have Merfolk built. I mostly lost these if they had a Vial on turn one because of the clock. But I still won 5-4 even with him sideboarding.
So, thumbs up for the first round of testing.
Since I stopped playing this deck, I have tried out many other ones, and losing to D+T. I am about ready to dig out my Karakases again.
Oh, btw congrats, Finn. I love the new sb.
The M10 rules change gave the deck some pretty bad press, as one of its better tricks had been the block, stack damage, unsummon trick with Karakas or Stonecloaker. Finn even told me that it might be to much to overcome. But the guys have made some decent headway in transforming the focus of the tricks away from that sort of thing since that time. the addition of Stoneforge Mystic for example is pretty big. I have not read a tournament report yet since that card came out.
Menendian took his data from the Starcitygames tournaments. This means that the results show only the American metagame - and only the metagame at these tournaments. Legacy is bigger than 50 decks.
In my first serious testing in a long time, here is what I have to report.
It's mostly good, actually. I used Finn's proposed list from a few pages back with some minor changes to the board.
6-1 battling monoMerfolk. I brutalized Merfolk. the one match I lost, I let my opponent get a new seven after he mulliganed to 5 w/out a land in game 3. They do actually have solutions for Aether Vial, but I always seemed to have more difficult permanents than he could handle. His bounce just was not enough in game 1. Standstill sat in his hand most of the time, and none of his sb stuff was really suited for this deck. Oblivion Ring went unopposed.
3-4 battling Zoo. I thought it would go better, but they have buttloads of removal, and that made the difference. and Pridemages are a pain. Grunts were good, and I kept him off a color for awhile in some games. But the games that I won were all due to my airforce. A Serra Avenger with any of the equipment is very strong in this one. But most of time she just ate bolts.
3-1 battling Reanimator. Their favorite new toy, Iona, is useless if you have Karakas. Empyrial Archangel is good, but they really don't have an answer for a flyer with a weapon.
That's all for now.
BTW, any monocolored deck has an excellent answer to Tabernacle: basic lands. That card is wayyyy overvalued.