I think Sol Ring kind of depends on the situation? Let's say I'm playing a 4 player free for all on MTGO and one guy is playing Kraken tribal. He drops a Sol Ring. I think to myself, "Oh, he's off to a quick start. By the end of the game though, 2 colorless mana isn't going to be that big of a deal." Now let's say it's the same scenario but I'm playing with Mox. Now I think to myself, "Oh, I now have potentially 1 or 2 less turns to stop him from winning." See the difference? Because of this, I don't think it calls for a universal ban. You just have to be a little more aggressive with your answers and threats if you see a player who you think can win before turn 5 or 6 if they're uninterrupted drop a Sol Ring.
Commander is a social game. Online anonymity destroys that. People will disagree with me but I don't believe MTGO Commander functions unless all parties know each other.
I do believe Commander is a social game, but some of my favorite games have been with complete strangers. Actually, that's what's so great about it. They're not complete strangers after the game. Sure, MTGO doesn't function well all the time. You're inevitably going to get personalities that clash and just can't come to a compromise no matter what. You'll get the people who call others names and throw tantrums. But it functions for me the majority of the time, and one player who quits and calls me cutthroat every so often when I play Kudzu (yes, it's happened more than once) shouldn't get in the way of having a fun time. It's a great way to play against a much wider variety of decks and people than you ever would offline. There are some people that I've made contacts with on MTGO who I like to play with (as well as some from this board), but I also like the "lotto ticket" rush of never knowing what your opponents might be playing. Playing with people you know in person and getting some snacks is always fun too though. To each their own, I guess.
I've viewed your list several times over the past year and I finally caved in and built the deck. I made a couple changes due to budget reasons (although I really shouldn't say that considering I foiled out everything that could be gotten in foil at a reasonable price since the deck was so cheap!), namely:
Dread => Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
No Mercy => Not sure, just generally replaced it with more turnaround effects I think
Dong => Delirium
Forcefield => Again, just generally replaced it
Mystifying Maze => Maze of Ith (had one laying around)
Hallowed Burial => Rout (pulled this from a Conspiracy draft the other day)
Mind's Eye => Generally replaced it (thinking about putting Erebos or something in this slot)
Weathered Wayfarer => Don't really have an excuse here, but I just didn't want to spend money on this for some reason.
Added a Boseiju as well.
Some of these pieces are probably pretty critical. I'll try to pick up a No Mercy alternative like Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker in trade and likely a Weathered Wayfarer at some point, or some other card that serves the same function like Tithe or Land Tax.
I can't wait to test this deck on people at my LGS. Everyone there runs crazy overpowered stuff and it gets really boring. I'm ready to shout "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?" while killing them with their own Eldrazi or Twin tokens.
As long as you're doing mostly lateral swaps like Dong for Delirium, it should be fine. Boseiju will definitely help if your meta needs it. Hopefully it provides a fun time, and let me know how it goes!
Just a very small update in the second post for the latest set, Conspiracy. It doesn't have a lot for Tariel (most sets won't), but it does look like a blast to play!
Nah. After really thinking about it, Tariel is going to be seriously worth the price. There are an abundance of good creatures in graveyards, whereas in my meta really the only tokens are Prossh kobolds. Thanks for all the help, and when I do buy the deck, Ill tell you how it performs!
Ironically enough I also have a High Priest of Penance! Thank you bad Orzhov standard deck! Anyway I would still like to force the Dictate in. Anything been underperforming recently?
I'd say that Blood Oath is the most situational kill spell. You do play in a meta with an enchantment (aura) and artifact deck though, but that's probably the one I'd go with to put in Dictate unless you think you'd get a ton of use out of it. If not that, then either Divine Deflection or Captain's Maneuver depending upon which one you think would be less useful in your meta (Deflection costs less but prevents, Maneuver costs more but redirects).
Also, how crucial is Tariel? Could Oros sub, or is that unthinkable?
You could sub in Oros easily. Tariel is really just there for the colors. Kaalia provides pretty much no benefit to this deck, so it would be between Tariel and Oros. I chose Tariel since I thought the ability to reanimate stuff at random might be more useful than sweeping tokens. Usually this deck is fine with and wants opponents to have large token armies (Crawlspace, Rakdos Charm, Batwing Brume, Hissing Miasma, etc.). You can still use Oros though since the deck is supposed to work with or without Tariel.
Thanks for your suggestions! I think Teysa will probably replace dread just because I have a foil of her already. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker will probably replace No Mercy as well. I also just snagged a foil copy of Wild Ricochet that will also make it in. The idea of replacing Dong with delirium is also an attractive choice. Paralectric Feedback is something I would really consider because of one guy who has a couple of Enduring Ideal decks. Flashing back increasing vengeance would be good times with that. Lastly, I also have a pretty sexy fnm promo of Dictate of the Twin Gods that Id like to stick somewhere. What would you take out for them? Gunna have to keep my eyes open with Kiyomaro, but dawn charm or mana tithe might end up going in. Earnest Fellowship is something I never really thought of that would hit Zur really hard. That alone makes it good.
Hey! Was thinking of joining mtgsalvation but never got around to it…until I saw your list. I had to comment! Your list looks like exactly the thing I was hoping to find, something fresh. My meta (irl) has gotten a little stale, so I was looking for something to shake it up. And here we are! I am STRONGLY considering buying this list, but as I totaled it up on tcg player, it was 133$+ without the forcefield. Yikes! The top eleven most expensive cards were as follows: forcefield- a ludicrous amount of cash, Dong Zhou, the Tyrant-26$, No Mercy-9$, Tariel, Reckoner of Souls-8$ (but we can't cut her), Hallowed Burial-7$, Mind's Eye-6$, Thawing Glaciers-5.50$, Lightning Greaves-5$, Solemn Simulacrum-4.50$, Chromatic Lantern-4$, and Dread-3$. Those last couple aren,t so bad, but I would like to hear what you would replace those with (as far as cheaper options). Some of the more notorious decks in my meta are a volron/control auras Zur, the Enchanter, a sac/voltron Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, a graveyard/voltron The Mimeoplasmdeck, artifact shenanigans Sydri, Galvanic Genius, Balthor, the Defiled Black stuff, and a Roon of the Hidden Realms blink deck. There are some others, but I can bring those up later if they end up being a huge issue. Some things to think about: is this a deck a one trick pony irl, are there any cards you have on the list to try out that would be suitable replacements, any cards you were sad to let go?
After thinking about that, theres a bit of a hipsterish deck a brewed a few months back, but it is missing something and I can't figure it out. Things to keep in mind: as per rules of the deck, it has to be under 35$, so to give you some wiggle room, I'll probably cut the wayfarer and put it in this deck if I make it. The deck is over at tapped out.com under the deck name hipstermander (sorry about not leaving a link, mtgsalvation won't let me yet).
Thanks again for your time, and hope to see this deck shake up my meta! Cheers, Tiger
Thanks for the comment! Out of those cards, I'd be most likely to cut Forcefield (only because of the price), Dong Zhou, the Tyrant (again, price), and Lightning Greaves (doesn't do as much in this deck). Delirium is a cheap replacement for Dong. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker or Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts aren't cards less than a dollar, but they're way cheaper than Forcefield. Fork, Reiterate, or any other red copy spell could replace the Greaves pretty easily. You might also consider some of the creatures Omen613 posted in his list just a few posts above this one. Hallowed Burial is a last resort card that sometimes needs to be played if things develop way to quickly. Mind's Eye is essential card draw. Thawing Glaciers is slow but solid ramp. Solemn Simulacrum and Chromatic Lantern both help us since we're not in Green or Blue. Dread is iffy, but I'm usually not upset to see it. I still haven't played the deck irl, but from what some of the people from here who play it live have said, it's not a bad idea to switch cards up in the deck from time to time to keep people guessing. Throw in a Parallectric Feedback or Price of Progress every so often if applicable to the meta. That way it keeps things fresh. Dictate of the Twin Gods is a new option that might be worth looking at. Gisela, Blade of Goldnight is interesting but on the more expensive side.
For the hipster deck, the only things that I can think of that seem funny are Earnest Fellowship and Tower of the Magistrate which both shut down a lot of voltron decks pretty hard. Tower can sometimes be more expensive though.
Love your deck, I've used it as the skeleton of my build after seeing this thread and it's been nothing but fun times.
I'm a little more creature heavy since my meta are people that will attack you if they see no blockers... having just one or two of these guys really makes them see me as "not worth it"
I'm drawing these from memory...so probably not all my adds and cuts are here.
Thank you very much! Always glad to see people having fun with it. My general aversion to creatures is because of a few reasons. The biggest is that I hate having my stuff Bribery'd, Rite of Replicationed, or Reanimated. I actually used to have Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs and Archon of Justice in the deck, but (a potentially early) Rite of Replication became so ubiquitous on MTGO that Archon became a liability. Sometimes there are aggro decks, but it's possible that MTGO is a little more durdly than your meta since I don't usually get attacked in the first three/four turns (which is usually enough time to put up at least one deterrent) even if I don't have a creature. I used to have Sunforger in the deck (as well as a few other tutors), but I ended up taking them out because it didn't have the potential to be as jaw-dropping when winning with a tutor. If your primary goal is punishing abundance though, it still works really well for that.
The rest of the creatures you put in are all solid, and I'd use Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts as a general if she had Red. I especially like Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker and Glarecaster. The Red copy spells are something I'd like to maybe put more of in, and they're really fun to play too. It looks like you took out a lot of the cards that search for lands. I sometimes run into trouble if I don't hit a few of them. Have you had any issues with having enough mana? Although, you also took out Divine Deflection and Captain's Maneuver which are both very mana intensive cards. Sudden Spoiling has been useful against decks that give their creatures Lifelink (it can possibly interfere with a Rakdos Charm) or just random troublesome creatures you want gone for a turn. Blood Oath is definitely something meta-dependent. Forcefield is usually an all-star for me almost regardless of the other decks though.
Again, glad you like it, and I'm always interested in what ways other players modify it to fit their meta.
When it gets to the three hour mark I start to get woozy. Up until that, the longer the better assuming that everyone is taking up roughly the same amount of time on the clock.
WIth Blue you pick up Gather Specimens, Reins of Power, Essence Backlash, Cerebral Vortex, and a few others. White has most if not all of the Mirror Strike and damage redirection effects, so if you want more combat tricks, I'd go White. If you want more stealy/ethereal tricks, I'd go Blue. Also, I assume you've seen it (and maybe even referenced it in the title), but Sheldon's Ruhan deck is also a place to look for ideas.
2. Is it fun for me to play?
3. Is it fun for my opponents to play against?
4. Can it actually win games?
1 and 2 are pretty easy. Most deck ideas stop at 3 or 4.
That and Prince of Thralls are pretty good contenders.
I do believe Commander is a social game, but some of my favorite games have been with complete strangers. Actually, that's what's so great about it. They're not complete strangers after the game. Sure, MTGO doesn't function well all the time. You're inevitably going to get personalities that clash and just can't come to a compromise no matter what. You'll get the people who call others names and throw tantrums. But it functions for me the majority of the time, and one player who quits and calls me cutthroat every so often when I play Kudzu (yes, it's happened more than once) shouldn't get in the way of having a fun time. It's a great way to play against a much wider variety of decks and people than you ever would offline. There are some people that I've made contacts with on MTGO who I like to play with (as well as some from this board), but I also like the "lotto ticket" rush of never knowing what your opponents might be playing. Playing with people you know in person and getting some snacks is always fun too though. To each their own, I guess.
As long as you're doing mostly lateral swaps like Dong for Delirium, it should be fine. Boseiju will definitely help if your meta needs it. Hopefully it provides a fun time, and let me know how it goes!
No problem and hope it goes well!
I'd say that Blood Oath is the most situational kill spell. You do play in a meta with an enchantment (aura) and artifact deck though, but that's probably the one I'd go with to put in Dictate unless you think you'd get a ton of use out of it. If not that, then either Divine Deflection or Captain's Maneuver depending upon which one you think would be less useful in your meta (Deflection costs less but prevents, Maneuver costs more but redirects).
You could sub in Oros easily. Tariel is really just there for the colors. Kaalia provides pretty much no benefit to this deck, so it would be between Tariel and Oros. I chose Tariel since I thought the ability to reanimate stuff at random might be more useful than sweeping tokens. Usually this deck is fine with and wants opponents to have large token armies (Crawlspace, Rakdos Charm, Batwing Brume, Hissing Miasma, etc.). You can still use Oros though since the deck is supposed to work with or without Tariel.
You could do:
Forcefield->High Priest of Penance
Dong->Delirium
No Mercy->Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
Lightning Greaves->Parallectric Feedback
Dread->Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
I'd keep the rest of the pricier cards if you can since a lot of them are card advantage engines or ramp. And no prob!
Thanks for the comment! Out of those cards, I'd be most likely to cut Forcefield (only because of the price), Dong Zhou, the Tyrant (again, price), and Lightning Greaves (doesn't do as much in this deck). Delirium is a cheap replacement for Dong. Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker or Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts aren't cards less than a dollar, but they're way cheaper than Forcefield. Fork, Reiterate, or any other red copy spell could replace the Greaves pretty easily. You might also consider some of the creatures Omen613 posted in his list just a few posts above this one. Hallowed Burial is a last resort card that sometimes needs to be played if things develop way to quickly. Mind's Eye is essential card draw. Thawing Glaciers is slow but solid ramp. Solemn Simulacrum and Chromatic Lantern both help us since we're not in Green or Blue. Dread is iffy, but I'm usually not upset to see it. I still haven't played the deck irl, but from what some of the people from here who play it live have said, it's not a bad idea to switch cards up in the deck from time to time to keep people guessing. Throw in a Parallectric Feedback or Price of Progress every so often if applicable to the meta. That way it keeps things fresh. Dictate of the Twin Gods is a new option that might be worth looking at. Gisela, Blade of Goldnight is interesting but on the more expensive side.
For the hipster deck, the only things that I can think of that seem funny are Earnest Fellowship and Tower of the Magistrate which both shut down a lot of voltron decks pretty hard. Tower can sometimes be more expensive though.
Thank you very much! Always glad to see people having fun with it. My general aversion to creatures is because of a few reasons. The biggest is that I hate having my stuff Bribery'd, Rite of Replicationed, or Reanimated. I actually used to have Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs and Archon of Justice in the deck, but (a potentially early) Rite of Replication became so ubiquitous on MTGO that Archon became a liability. Sometimes there are aggro decks, but it's possible that MTGO is a little more durdly than your meta since I don't usually get attacked in the first three/four turns (which is usually enough time to put up at least one deterrent) even if I don't have a creature. I used to have Sunforger in the deck (as well as a few other tutors), but I ended up taking them out because it didn't have the potential to be as jaw-dropping when winning with a tutor. If your primary goal is punishing abundance though, it still works really well for that.
The rest of the creatures you put in are all solid, and I'd use Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts as a general if she had Red. I especially like Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker and Glarecaster. The Red copy spells are something I'd like to maybe put more of in, and they're really fun to play too. It looks like you took out a lot of the cards that search for lands. I sometimes run into trouble if I don't hit a few of them. Have you had any issues with having enough mana? Although, you also took out Divine Deflection and Captain's Maneuver which are both very mana intensive cards. Sudden Spoiling has been useful against decks that give their creatures Lifelink (it can possibly interfere with a Rakdos Charm) or just random troublesome creatures you want gone for a turn. Blood Oath is definitely something meta-dependent. Forcefield is usually an all-star for me almost regardless of the other decks though.
Again, glad you like it, and I'm always interested in what ways other players modify it to fit their meta.