There's a few favorites back in (Battlesphere, Eye of Ugin) and a few classics coming out for a bit (Mox Opal, Karn PW) - We'll see how this shakes out. It's performing pretty well for me these days. Thousand-Year Elixir has been solid in almost every game I've seen it in - with Karn out, it untaps anything. I'm now considering something like Magewright's Stone too.
Lovely! I contend that Erebos is the best option for mono-black goodstuff. I've been toying with him since Theros and I've settled on a monoblack goodstuff with a Pestilence theme - with Pestilence, Withering Wisps, Crypt Rats and Thrashing Wumpus. I've got Whip of Erebos and Exquisite Blood in there to allow the pestilent critters grant me hundreds of points of life - which makes Last Laugh a pseudo-pestilence effect also. Every single deck has had a Glacial Chasm for years - but it's particularly useful in this one.
Lastly, Chainer, Dementia Master is probably one of the best value black critters you can run. I strongly recommend him.
Actually, that's not a bad card to consider! The only difficult thing about these types of decks is keeping track of all those things. It was one of the main headaches of running cards like Shadow of the Grave. I'd have players first discard their cards in a different pile in order to keep track. Then, at the end of the turn, put them into the graveyard. Lots of arguments over what went where and how many of what would naturally ensue. Keeping track and accounting of these kinds of things is always crucial because Molten Psyche cares about that, as well.
I've started playing it in my creature and combo-less thrasios and vial smasher deck and dig it with fewer draw-7's than you run.
Ok, so I might reveal how much of an a-hole I am here - but in situations like that, I guesstimate a reasonable-sounding number, then subtract 10%. The table then has to either wait while someone calculates (which I'd be adamantly against regardless of what side of this deck I'm on) or put the onus of knowing a more accurate number on another player to (quickly) prove me wrong.
But usually just saying "I Wheel Of Fortuned, then Memory Jarred, then Dark Deal-ed, so it sounds like 20 is close to the right number - anyone disagree?" and unless you're playing with jerks, you should be a'ight.
This list looks a lot like what I'd probably try and cook up. Mizzix has been doing great for me for a long time now - but I might add Locust Guy to the 99 of it.
You're running enough shuffle effects to get some mileage outta Scroll Rack.
LED can be great in response to your own draw-7 if you don't anticipate any counters.
Have you thought about buyback spells - namely Capsize and Reiterate to use with Mana Echoes?
Well, here's my list. Most of my wins are either "Animate all y'all's lands, activate Powder Keg, GG" or an activation of Ifh-Biff Efreet for about 50Gwith glacial chasm out. There's tons of other non swing-with-the-team options in here also. I even entered my whole list on TappedOut just because of this post.
I don't think it's any one place - it seems like it's been fragmented everywhere. If I had to guess, I'd say it went to sites with the finance podcasts.
Cascading Cataractswas an auto-include in my build - on account of it being indestructible (and therefore a great target for land auras) and being a combo with mana reflection, Derevi and a sac outlet.
If I had taken two economics classes in college and was a relative newcomer to the MTG market, I'd agree with you, Mr-awfully-disposable-sounding-account-name.
You're applying a lot of pure theory to what you understand is a binary market. If you stay tuned you'll find that things are a bit more complex than that. If you were an ardent follower of a few the MTG Finance blogs, the situation might be a little less murky.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you see this as a buyer/demand and seller/supply market that - if juggled correctly - can yield profitable results. Price memory shouldn't be a thing, because logic dictates that sellers would want to sell their unused goods at some price instead of no price. I got you - we both agree on this.
But this truism doesn't quite hold up in the current MTG marketplace - because many speculators are right often enough to allow them to play the long game on their unmatured specs. If a spec hasn't matured yet, they hold onto it before buylisting it - which reminds me that most of them presume most bad specs will always wind up being bulked out or buylisted - so no investment is a total loss, even though they're treated as such when first purchased. For many speculators, cards aren't so much an investment as they are a carefully-researched bet.
To your point, I will concede that it's ludicrous to hold onto a card like tarmogoyf or force of will - it's bound to eventually be reprinted to meet market demand - but magic investors aren't holding onto cards like these - because these cards have their prices threatened not only by reprint but also counterfeiting - which you've implied you're not entirely against so long as it's a means to get some cards into the hands of the people who want them. The fallacy here is that the fallout of getting everyone the cards they want cheaply also ruins Wizards' primary distribution model of local game shop business - and without them, the game's popularity will likely fall off a cliff.
Back to my point - secondly, there's the whole idea of a failed spec being a sort of personal trophy - a monument to failure. There's plenty out there about Seance and Splinterfright to back this up. The guy sitting on 6000 Nivmagus Elementals might enjoy having them around as a throne to sit upon more than the idea of selling them.
This is an emotional game for some people - and you cant try and reckon the entire market from a viewpoint that ignores this emotionality.
I've got a rather novel take on the abundant Thrasios/Vial Smasher combo that's around : combo-less, overt wincon-less, and basically creatureless (save Seedborn and Riftsweeper). The only way I win is by surviving long enough to zap opponents with a 40-point Whir of Invention or Power Sink.
Even with my strong filter-fu, EDHrec simply doesn't offer any usable recommendations for strong inclusion candidates. That's exactly what I'm asking for here: Strong inclusion candidates. Preferably instants and sorceries that have huge CMC's that cast for less than what their CMC is. Divergent Transformation and Commit to Memory are prime examples of the sort of thing I'm looking for. Since I'm low on creatures and artifacts, I've found that things with affinity, improvise and convoke don't quite make the cut.
So now that I've provided enough background about what I'm looking for, is anyone else running anything like this - and do y'all have any bright ideas?
Beautiful! I built a deck that was 95% this deck a few weeks after Selvala came out. Seedcradle Witch did some work in my build.
Incidentally, this deck was PERFECT for trolling people who objected to infinite combos - since the iterative series of interactions displayed with this deck are mathematically finite.
Both appear great and are currently being test-driven in my Karn Build.
They're both robust wincons that have utility outside of the moment you combo off - Throne is even a non-combo wincon.
This iteration of the deckremains remains one of my favorite play experiences (out of the 9 I'm currently running).
I'll update in a few weeks with an update once the list solidifies a bit.
EDIT: Scrap Trawler continues to constantly impress me. It looks like it'd only be ok - but there have been a few games where it was absolutely bonkers.
As an magic old-timer, I really miss the days of playing when Chaos Orb was legal. It's a pity it's usually frowned upon - I really miss how fun it was.
My updated list is current on the front page now.
Changes below
OUT
IN
There's a few favorites back in (Battlesphere, Eye of Ugin) and a few classics coming out for a bit (Mox Opal, Karn PW) - We'll see how this shakes out. It's performing pretty well for me these days. Thousand-Year Elixir has been solid in almost every game I've seen it in - with Karn out, it untaps anything. I'm now considering something like Magewright's Stone too.
Lastly, Chainer, Dementia Master is probably one of the best value black critters you can run. I strongly recommend him.
However, Mirage Mirror seems real, real good.
I've started playing it in my creature and combo-less thrasios and vial smasher deck and dig it with fewer draw-7's than you run.
Ok, so I might reveal how much of an a-hole I am here - but in situations like that, I guesstimate a reasonable-sounding number, then subtract 10%. The table then has to either wait while someone calculates (which I'd be adamantly against regardless of what side of this deck I'm on) or put the onus of knowing a more accurate number on another player to (quickly) prove me wrong.
But usually just saying "I Wheel Of Fortuned, then Memory Jarred, then Dark Deal-ed, so it sounds like 20 is close to the right number - anyone disagree?" and unless you're playing with jerks, you should be a'ight.
You're running enough shuffle effects to get some mileage outta Scroll Rack.
LED can be great in response to your own draw-7 if you don't anticipate any counters.
Have you thought about buyback spells - namely Capsize and Reiterate to use with Mana Echoes?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-06-17-kamahl-fist-of-krosa/?cat=type&sort=cost
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/511372-derevi-empyrial-tactician-enchantress-tactics-mtg
You're applying a lot of pure theory to what you understand is a binary market. If you stay tuned you'll find that things are a bit more complex than that. If you were an ardent follower of a few the MTG Finance blogs, the situation might be a little less murky.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you see this as a buyer/demand and seller/supply market that - if juggled correctly - can yield profitable results. Price memory shouldn't be a thing, because logic dictates that sellers would want to sell their unused goods at some price instead of no price. I got you - we both agree on this.
But this truism doesn't quite hold up in the current MTG marketplace - because many speculators are right often enough to allow them to play the long game on their unmatured specs. If a spec hasn't matured yet, they hold onto it before buylisting it - which reminds me that most of them presume most bad specs will always wind up being bulked out or buylisted - so no investment is a total loss, even though they're treated as such when first purchased. For many speculators, cards aren't so much an investment as they are a carefully-researched bet.
To your point, I will concede that it's ludicrous to hold onto a card like tarmogoyf or force of will - it's bound to eventually be reprinted to meet market demand - but magic investors aren't holding onto cards like these - because these cards have their prices threatened not only by reprint but also counterfeiting - which you've implied you're not entirely against so long as it's a means to get some cards into the hands of the people who want them. The fallacy here is that the fallout of getting everyone the cards they want cheaply also ruins Wizards' primary distribution model of local game shop business - and without them, the game's popularity will likely fall off a cliff.
Back to my point - secondly, there's the whole idea of a failed spec being a sort of personal trophy - a monument to failure. There's plenty out there about Seance and Splinterfright to back this up. The guy sitting on 6000 Nivmagus Elementals might enjoy having them around as a throne to sit upon more than the idea of selling them.
This is an emotional game for some people - and you cant try and reckon the entire market from a viewpoint that ignores this emotionality.
Here's a link to my current list:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/24-05-17-thrasios-vial-smasher/
I'll be working this weekend on working some new ideas (like Commandeer) and your suggestions into the deck.
Even with my strong filter-fu, EDHrec simply doesn't offer any usable recommendations for strong inclusion candidates. That's exactly what I'm asking for here: Strong inclusion candidates. Preferably instants and sorceries that have huge CMC's that cast for less than what their CMC is. Divergent Transformation and Commit to Memory are prime examples of the sort of thing I'm looking for. Since I'm low on creatures and artifacts, I've found that things with affinity, improvise and convoke don't quite make the cut.
So now that I've provided enough background about what I'm looking for, is anyone else running anything like this - and do y'all have any bright ideas?
Thanks.
Incidentally, this deck was PERFECT for trolling people who objected to infinite combos - since the iterative series of interactions displayed with this deck are mathematically finite.
Unfortunately, I don't run this deck anymore.
Oracle's Vault
Throne of the God-Pharaoh
Both appear great and are currently being test-driven in my Karn Build.
They're both robust wincons that have utility outside of the moment you combo off - Throne is even a non-combo wincon.
This iteration of the deckremains remains one of my favorite play experiences (out of the 9 I'm currently running).
I'll update in a few weeks with an update once the list solidifies a bit.
EDIT: Scrap Trawler continues to constantly impress me. It looks like it'd only be ok - but there have been a few games where it was absolutely bonkers.